Florida High School Shooting

[SMOGZINN]

You're a glass half empty person. All I see are 300 more news cycles of bad news for Trump, just like the last 300 news cycles.

When it comes to American politics I'm more of a 'someone pissed in the glass, threw it against the wall and littered the floor in piss covered glass shards and I have no shoes on' type of guy. I don't know if bad news even matters to Trumps base anymore. Reality does not seem to have any effect on close to half the American voters.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

You said that the sign telling everyone that no guns are allowed is a huge target to go commit gun murder.

You literally complained about the signs and said they aren't helping.

So, why not remove the sign? It leaves the would-be murderer with a sense of mystery: "I don't know...maybe they could be armed?"

I'm a big fan of this style of ambiguity. You are dead right on. To me it doesn't matter whether there is a sign or not. I don't want the mental nutcase to know for sure that nobody can fight back.

meanwhile, your ilk's retarded solution is to arm individuals that will absolutely refuse to be armed in large order.

They don't need to be armed in any large order. they just need the legal ability to choose to become trained and armed. I don't care if it is just one armed teacher in the school, or 25 of them. In fact, alluding to your point, I don't even want to know how many are armed. Even if none are armed, the thought that some might be could serve as a deterrent. This is not some new, unusual way of thinking. We protect lots of people and things with guns. It is known. the rich and powerful send their kids to schools protected by guns. When there is a shooting, we call people with guns to come protect us. I am not understanding the fearful and angry responses to this suggestion.

"Oh I have no intent to force my freedom down your throat, but if you want to teach...yeah, you're going to have to go learn to be a killer, now. Apparently we can't do police very well, and since we still can't pay you properly to be a teacher, we need you to also be police, oh and don't expect a raise."

We ask our teachers to protect our kids. They often do heroically, with many stories of teachers placing their bodies in front of bullets. I would like to give them a chance to shoot back or at the very least, brandish a weapon. Often brandishing the weapon ends a shooting. And yes, we can give these teachers raises, and I have argued for that. You don't even have to raise my taxes, I will voluntarily donate to this.

You guys really do think up the dumbest shit, where the only solution is ever going to be some version of "moar murder guns!"

The gun lobby is proud of your dependable servitude, slave.

The wealthy lawmakers who tell us we need gun control protect themselves with guys with guns. If it is good enough for our leadership and their kids, then why does it chap your ass that I might want this for my kids?

 

[HomerJS]

The wealthy lawmakers who tell us we need gun control protect themselves with guys with guns. If it is good enough for our leadership and their kids, then why does it chap your ass that I might want this for my kids?

The wealthy lawmakers who tell us we need more guns to be safer don't allow "good guys" to carry them at their own events. Republican conventions, gun shows, CPAC, etc. If its good enough to preach why isn't it good enough for them to practice?

 

[zinfamous]

We ask our teachers to protect our kids. They often do heroically, with many stories of teachers placing their bodies in front of bullets. I would like to give them a chance to shoot back or at the very least, brandish a weapon. Often brandishing the weapon ends a shooting. And yes, we can give these teachers raises, and I have argued for that. You don't even have to raise my taxes, I will voluntarily donate to this.

Since when? We expect teachers/schools to let us know when our kids are ill, when they are injured. Counselors to help them and inform us when they have other mental/growing issues. We've never, in any history of humanity that I know of, expected and demanded of our teachers to act as the last line of violent defense against violent murder-happy sociopaths.

The wealthy lawmakers who tell us we need gun control protect themselves with guys with guns. If it is good enough for our leadership and their kids, then why does it chap your ass that I might want this for my kids?

wait...are VIPs and politicians hiring armed teachers to defend them? I'm losing track of the logic, here.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Since when? We expect teachers/schools to let us know when our kids are ill, when they are injured. Counselors to help them and inform us when they have other mental/growing issues. We've never, in any history of humanity that I know of, expected and demanded of our teachers to act as the last line of violent defense against violent murder-happy sociopaths.



wait...are VIPs and politicians hiring armed teachers to defend them? I'm losing track of the logic, here.

Let’s leave off the fact that an overwhelming majority of teachers do not want to be armed while in school.
As I said earlier, how many ultra qualified teacher marksmen or teacher/former Navy Seal are there in the country 15,20,30?. How many schools will that protect in the ENTIRE UNITED STATES?

 

[jackstar7]

We ask our teachers to protect our kids.

Lemme ask this: if teachers nationwide were polled and the vast majority said they wanted guns banned from society (~80%+), would you take their side and work to make your kids safe at school via a ban on guns?

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Lemme ask this: if teachers nationwide were polled and the vast majority said they wanted guns banned from society (~80%+), would you take their side and work to make your kids safe at school via a ban on guns?

No because that is asking the impossible. You cannot rid a nation of 300,000,000 guns. That is where we are, like it or not.

If a teacher wants to jump in front of bullets, we let them. If that teacher wants to shoot back at the bad guy, I would like to let them. Many teachers are already armed and trained (you might not know this). If the teacher doesn't want to be armed and trained, fine. This can't be compulsory.

 

[fskimospy]

No because that is asking the impossible. You cannot rid a nation of 300,000,000 guns. That is where we are, like it or not.

Of course we could. It is simply a matter of if we have the will to do so.

If a teacher wants to jump in front of bullets, we let them. If that teacher wants to shoot back at the bad guy, I would like to let them. Many teachers are already armed and trained (you might not know this). If the teacher doesn't want to be armed and trained, fine. This can't be compulsory.

If your goal is to have the fewest possible number of children die at schools this is likely a very bad idea. Considering that gun ownership in the home makes someone more likely to die than if they had no gun at all why do you think schools would be different?

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Of course we could. It is simply a matter of if we have the will to do so.

Has any nation ever successfully accomplished this? Anything close to this scale?

If your goal is to have the fewest possible number of children die at schools this is likely a very bad idea. Considering that gun ownership in the home makes someone more likely to die than if they had no gun at all why do you think schools would be different?

By your logic, cops, guards, and army men should not have guns. The rich, the powerful, and the politicians all disagree with you. They have armed guards and they send their children to private schools with well trained, armed guards.

Training is the key. The average numpty with a gun at home doesn't have the training that I'd like available (voluntarily) to teachers.

 

[fskimospy]

Has any nation ever successfully accomplished this? Anything close to this scale?

Considering there are few nations the size of the US, of course not. You haven’t given any reason why this would be impossible though, you just stated it would be. That doesn’t fly.

By your logic, cops, guards, and army men should not have guns. The rich, the powerful, and the politicians all disagree with you. They have armed guards and they send their children to private schools with well trained, armed guards.

That’s not my logic at all, don’t be silly. It’s ridiculous to equate a teacher carrying a gun with full time armed security.

I’ve spent an unfortunately large percentage of my life acting as armed security, btw.

Training is the key. The average numpty with a gun at home doesn't have the training that I'd like available (voluntarily) to teachers.

Accidents are not the driving force behind why owning a gun makes you more likely to be killed so there’s little reason to believe training is the key.

So again, why are schools different where more guns there will lead to fewer deaths? It’s not true anywhere else so why are they special?

 

[dank69]

Has any nation ever successfully accomplished this? Anything close to this scale?



By your logic, cops, guards, and army men should not have guns. The rich, the powerful, and the politicians all disagree with you. They have armed guards and they send their children to private schools with well trained, armed guards.

Training is the key. The average numpty with a gun at home doesn't have the training that I'd like available (voluntarily) to teachers.

I've heard that the average cop hits their target about 10% of the time in high stress situations. Assuming we can train our teachers to be just as accurate as full time police, I think the students that the teacher is trying to protect will make great backstops for the other 9 out of 10 bullets.

 

[ivwshane]

Has any nation ever successfully accomplished this? Anything close to this scale?



By your logic, cops, guards, and army men should not have guns. The rich, the powerful, and the politicians all disagree with you. They have armed guards and they send their children to private schools with well trained, armed guards.

Training is the key. The average numpty with a gun at home doesn't have the training that I'd like available (voluntarily) to teachers.

Considering that most guns are in the hands of a few people I'm not seeing why this would be difficult other than the backlash from gun nuts.

 

[esquared]

Three hours after Gov. Scott signed a new gun law, the gun manufacturer's marketing arm filed a lawsuit.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-mom-student-asks-fbi-regarding-online-threats-144845107.html

 

[jackstar7]

No because that is asking the impossible. You cannot rid a nation of 300,000,000 guns. That is where we are, like it or not.

That, by the way, is a logical fallacy.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Has any nation ever successfully accomplished this? Anything close to this scale?

Does it matter? It is not something we could do over night, but we would eventually get it done if we started working on it.

By your logic, cops, guards, and army men should not have guns. The rich, the powerful, and the politicians all disagree with you. They have armed guards and they send their children to private schools with well trained, armed guards.

BTW - cops, guards, and army men all have a much, much higher chance of being killed by guns than the average person, as are anyone they are regularly around.

Training is the key. The average numpty with a gun at home doesn't have the training that I'd like available (voluntarily) to teachers.

Effective training is what is important, and what will not happen. Effective training take time and well trained instructors, which there probably are not enough of in the US to properly train a single teacher for every school.

 

[HomerJS]

Here is an interesting post from someone we know underestimating the Florida kids. Without them that new law would never had been signed. Cough...cough...Tajy

https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...mp-out-on-his-bs.2537978/page-7#post-39315416

 

[BoomerD]

By all means...let's arm the teachers...what could possibly go wrong?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...istol-public-safety-lecture-article-1.3873354

A teacher injured a student on Tuesday when he accidentally fired a pistol during a lecture about public safety, police said.

Dennis Alexander, a reserve police officer, city councilman, and teacher at Seaside High School about 110 miles south of San Francisco was pointing a gun at the ceiling around 1:20 p.m. when he accidentally fired it, according to the Salinas Californian.

As a reserve police officer, he SHOULD have known better than to do stupid shit like this...and SHOULD be better trained than the average teacher.

 

[fskimospy]

I

By all means...let's arm the teachers...what could possibly go wrong?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...istol-public-safety-lecture-article-1.3873354

As a reserve police officer, he SHOULD have known better than to do stupid shit like this...and SHOULD be better trained than the average teacher.

If only someone could have predicted this outcome.

 

[Homerboy]

Well, today is the day of the school walk outs. Sadly, after supporting the kids in their endeavors, our local school system has now switched it to an "assembly". I'm not too pleased about that.

 

[olds]

Why are the walking out to protest guns? It would seem the country would be better served if they protested the lack of mental health care.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Why are the walking out to protest guns? It would seem the country would be better served if they protested the lack of mental health care.

People with mental health issues are more likely to harm themselves than others statistically speaking. While it's a part of the solution it's only one part. The ease at which people can access firearms is another part. This is a large puzzle that needs to be addressed piece by piece. For these kids the piece that want to focus on is the access. So be it.

 

[fskimospy]

Why are the walking out to protest guns? It would seem the country would be better served if they protested the lack of mental health care.

Because they correctly realize that effective gun control would do a lot to limit the number of kids killed by guns.

 

[olds]

Because they correctly realize that effective gun control would do a lot to limit the number of kids killed by guns.

What happens when they start using knives and clubs? Or cars, planes and trains? Seems the underlying issues need to be addressed.

 

[Stokely]

I don't disagree with that, but it's going to be a hell of a lot easier to kill 50 people with an AR 15 than with a club. How about both? That's kind of the point of the Don't walk out, walk up movement--to reach out to students that might be having issues. This isn't a zero sum game.

 

[fskimospy]

What happens when they start using knives and clubs? Or cars, planes and trains? Seems the underlying issues need to be addressed.

The onion has this covered:

https://www.theonion.com/you-take-away-guns-and-someone-s-just-gonna-invent-ma-1819585008

We could take away everyone’s firearms tomorrow, but for any psychopath bent on causing death and destruction, killing a dozen people would still be no further away than designing a long-distance knife thrower, building it, calibrating it to accurately hit targets tens or hundreds of feet away, and ultimately going into a public area and inflicting significant casualties on unsuspecting civilians.

Sadly, it’s just that simple.

More simply though, if you know someone's going to attack a school tomorrow would you prefer them to have a club or a gun?