Florida GOP Voter Suppression Effort Poised to Backfire Spectacularly

[fskimospy]

How is paying your debt to society - both in terms of jail sentence and paying the fees that allow you to have a court case for your crime.... "Undermining the ballot" ?

So you agree with paying for your time as acceptable, but not the court costs?

I agree with neither, I find it super weird that the people whose life is literally dictated 24/7 by the state have no say in what the state does.

Regardless though, this is a pretty transparent attempt to restrict ballot access to people Republicans think will vote against them.

 

[Fenixgoon]

How is paying your debt to society - both in terms of jail sentence and paying the fees that allow you to have a court case for your crime.... "Undermining the ballot" ?

So you agree with paying for your time as acceptable, but not the court costs?

How does one pay back money they don't have because they were in jail in the first place?

It's nothing but additional retribution, and yet another indicator that our system doesn't care about actual rehabilitation. It does nothing but disenfranchise people and ensure they stay that way

 

[Paratus]

How is paying your debt to society - both in terms of jail sentence and paying the fees that allow you to have a court case for your crime.... "Undermining the ballot" ?

So you agree with paying for your time as acceptable, but not the court costs?

The 24th amendment doesn't say that, it states -
Amendment XXIV
Section 1.
The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any state by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.
Section 2.
The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Tax, not court ordered remuneration for a crime committed as part of a legally adjudicated trial.
Remuneration for a crime committed as part of a legally adjudicated trial has never been defined as a "tax" by SCOTUS, SCOFl, or IRC.
The 24th Amendment was also written to preserve State rights as it only references national elections and nothing lower.

What if the state and the courts have no idea what you owe and have no method to reliably tell you what your debt actually is?

Would either of you feel differently then?

What if I told you Florida was a complete shit-show when it comes to fines and fees from the justice system.

Everything costs money to the offender. A public defender costs $600+. If that’s sounds like too much you can defend yourself but they will charge your $500+ for that privilege. Any medical care, drug testing, or other services required by the state while incarcerated are also tacked on.

This all might be fine if ex-felons could get an accurate tally of the fines and fees they owe but in most cases they can’t.

A professor and a group of doctoral candidates in the legal field from a research university tried to obtain this information on behalf of 153 randomly selected felons. There were inconsistencies in all but 3 of the felons fines and fees information.

The Division or Elections is supposed to screen voter registrations for felony convictions and now unpaid fees and fines. They have 85000 pending voter registrations to review for fines and fees. The head of the office estimated it will take them past 2024 election to review these new candidates. As of now they haven’t done a single one because they cannot come up with a reliable way to determine if the fees have been payed or not.

So the judge found that SB7066 violates the 24th amendment for those who can’t pay their fees and a violation of due process due to the clusterfuck of fines and fees information for those who could pay.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics...ent-4-fines-fees-unconstitutional-ruling.html

 

[brycejones]

They don't win on policy. They win on the feels.

They keep their shrinking base based on the feels. Their policies are designed to ensure that shrinking base is enough to keep them in power. It’s getting harder and harder for them to pull that off though.

 

[brycejones]

What if the state and the courts have no idea what you owe and have no method to reliably tell you what your debt actually is?

Would either of you feel differently then?

What if I told you Florida was a complete shit-show when it comes to fines and fees from the justice system.

Everything costs money to the offender. A public defender costs $600+. If that’s sounds like too much you can defend yourself but they will charge your $500+ for that privilege. Any medical care, drug testing, or other services required by the state while incarcerated are also tacked on.

This all might be fine if ex-felons could get an accurate tally of the fines and fees they owe but in most cases they can’t.

A professor and a group of doctoral candidates in the legal field from a research university tried to obtain this information on behalf of 153 randomly selected felons. There were inconsistencies in all but 3 of the felons fines and fees information.

The Division or Elections is supposed to screen voter registrations for felony convictions and now unpaid fees and fines. They have 85000 pending voter registrations to review for fines and fees. The head of the office estimated it will take them past 2024 election to review these new candidates. As of now they haven’t done a single one because they cannot come up with a reliable way to determine if the fees have been payed or not.

So the judge found that SB7066 violates the 24th amendment for those who can’t pay their fees and a violation of due process due to the clusterfuck of fines and fees information for those who could pay.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics...ent-4-fines-fees-unconstitutional-ruling.html

Thank you, it will be interesting to see if the conservatives who are angry about this ruling will address the actual reasons behind it.

 

[tweaker2]

They keep their shrinking base based on the feels. Their policies are designed to ensure that shrinking base is enough to keep them in power. It’s getting harder and harder for them to pull that off though.

Repubs up on the Hill have been getting away with having their cake and eating it too for nigh on decades in regard to keeping power while regressing into minority party status although it does appear that "privilege" of theirs seems to be playing itself out thanks to Trump and McConnell coming out and making it very plain and blatantly obvious how they've been relying on a sinking raft of lies and deception to keep their rabid sheep penned in and controllable.

 

[Micrornd]

But since the majority of these people do not have the means to pay then it becomes political. I've known people who have gone through the system, fines and fee's for just about anything are tacked on like crazy.

I understand what you are saying. The only things I am advocating paying before the return of the right to vote are those fines, legal fees, and victim reparations that are adjudicated in the sentencing phase by the judge, not what may be tacked on later. And since they are part of the public record, the State should be required to record them and track them. Those are the payments that we voted for, not some addon after the fact.

 

[Commodus]

They keep their shrinking base based on the feels. Their policies are designed to ensure that shrinking base is enough to keep them in power. It’s getting harder and harder for them to pull that off thought.

I never quite understand why the Republicans are so short-sighted that way. They know that their voter base is shrinking as older people die and the demographics become more diverse, and that they can't even count on certain red states. Eventually, their cheating isn't enough to overcome the will of the people.

And they don't seem to realize that if the Democrats flip a given state government, the party's over for a very long time. Elections at all levels become fairer, and the demographic shift inherently works in the Dems' favor. Why fight so hard to artificially prop up your party for a few terms when there's a real chance you'll be locked out of the political conversation for decades if you don't adapt?

 

[Micrornd]

What if the state and the courts have no idea what you owe and have no method to reliably tell you what your debt actually is?

Would either of you feel differently then?

What if I told you Florida was a complete shit-show when it comes to fines and fees from the justice system.

Everything costs money to the offender. A public defender costs $600+. If that’s sounds like too much you can defend yourself but they will charge your $500+ for that privilege. Any medical care, drug testing, or other services required by the state while incarcerated are also tacked on.

This all might be fine if ex-felons could get an accurate tally of the fines and fees they owe but in most cases they can’t.

A professor and a group of doctoral candidates in the legal field from a research university tried to obtain this information on behalf of 153 randomly selected felons. There were inconsistencies in all but 3 of the felons fines and fees information.

The Division or Elections is supposed to screen voter registrations for felony convictions and now unpaid fees and fines. They have 85000 pending voter registrations to review for fines and fees. The head of the office estimated it will take them past 2024 election to review these new candidates. As of now they haven’t done a single one because they cannot come up with a reliable way to determine if the fees have been payed or not.

So the judge found that SB7066 violates the 24th amendment for those who can’t pay their fees and a violation of due process due to the clusterfuck of fines and fees information for those who could pay.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics...ent-4-fines-fees-unconstitutional-ruling.html

I understand what you are saying. The only things I am advocating paying before the return of the right to vote are those fines, legal fees, and victim reparations that are adjudicated in the sentencing phase by the judge, not what may be tacked on later. And since they are part of the public record, the State should be required to record them and track them. Those are the payments that we voted for, not some addons after the fact. Just those that were part of the felony sentence.
I think you meant to say, "So the judge found that SB7066 violates the 4th amendment (of the Constitution of the State of Florida....", since it is not in violation of the 24th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

 

[Brainonska511]

I never quite understand why the Republicans are so short-sighted that way. They know that their voter base is shrinking as older people die and the demographics become more diverse, and that they can't even count on certain red states. Eventually, their cheating isn't enough to overcome the will of the people.

And they don't seem to realize that if the Democrats flip a given state government, the party's over for a very long time. Elections at all levels become fairer, and the demographic shift inherently works in the Dems' favor. Why fight so hard to artificially prop up your party for a few terms when there's a real chance you'll be locked out of the political conversation for decades if you don't adapt?

The primary system that favors radicalization amongst the GOP biases the elected people to try and entrench their power in the short term.

 

[SteveGrabowski]

I never quite understand why the Republicans are so short-sighted that way. They know that their voter base is shrinking as older people die and the demographics become more diverse, and that they can't even count on certain red states. Eventually, their cheating isn't enough to overcome the will of the people.

And they don't seem to realize that if the Democrats flip a given state government, the party's over for a very long time. Elections at all levels become fairer, and the demographic shift inherently works in the Dems' favor. Why fight so hard to artificially prop up your party for a few terms when there's a real chance you'll be locked out of the political conversation for decades if you don't adapt?

Because the right wing media machine has radicalized their voting base over the last 20-25 years.

 

[Commodus]

Because the right wing media machine has radicalized their voting base over the last 20-25 years.

Oh, I know about the voter base, I'm talking about the politicians. The McConnells and Cruzes and state reps who you'd think would realize that they're likely wrecking the future of the party for short-term gain.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Oh, I know about the voter base, I'm talking about the politicians. The McConnells and Cruzes and state reps who you'd think would realize that they're likely wrecking the future of the party for short-term gain.

What do they care? They'll be retired/dead by the time comeuppance rears its ugly head for the party.

That's the next generation of the Republican party's problem, not theirs.

 

[BUTCH1]

I understand what you are saying. The only things I am advocating paying before the return of the right to vote are those fines, legal fees, and victim reparations that are adjudicated in the sentencing phase by the judge, not what may be tacked on later. And since they are part of the public record, the State should be required to record them and track them. Those are the payments that we voted for, not some addons after the fact. Just those that were part of the felony sentence.
I think you meant to say, "So the judge found that SB7066 violates the 4th amendment (of the Constitution of the State of Florida....", since it is not in violation of the 24th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

LOL, "legal fee's" for a public defender?, only in FL. Virtually all of these will be "added on" since everything possible incurs a charge. Correctly struck down by the Judge.

 

[blackangst1]

Just as voter fraud is a myth, so is voter suppression. The problem is Democrats just dont fucking vote.

 

[kage69]

Just as voter fraud is a myth, so is voter suppression. The problem is Democrats just dont fucking vote.

Are you ever going to get tired of being so full of shit?

You've managed to stay this ignorant about something that's been so widespread, blatant, and hell even admitted to, to this day? Seriously?

Guess what? The problem is you're in a cult, and there are many like you. Facts don't matter. Sad.

 

[pauldun170]

Surpreme Courts ruling - https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/16/politics/supreme-court-florida-felons/index.html
The dissent - https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/19a1071_4h25.pdf

The Supreme Court Just Stopped 1 Million Floridians From Voting in November

The justices refused to halt Florida’s poll tax on ex-felons—and didn’t bother explaining why.

slate.com

 

[Fenixgoon]

Surpreme Courts ruling - https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/16/politics/supreme-court-florida-felons/index.html
The dissent - https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/19a1071_4h25.pdf

The Supreme Court Just Stopped 1 Million Floridians From Voting in November

The justices refused to halt Florida’s poll tax on ex-felons—and didn’t bother explaining why.

slate.com

ok the article was confusing because this isn't a final supreme court decision? they're just overruling a lower court to allow the law to go into effect for the time being ? which is still admittedly quite shitty

 

[pauldun170]

ok the article was confusing because this isn't a final supreme court decision? they're just overruling a lower court to allow the law to go into effect for the time being ? which is still admittedly quite shitty

The background

The news out of Florida, another swing state infamous for assaults on suffrage, is no better. In May, U.S. District Judge Robert Hinkle held unconstitutional a Florida scheme that forced ex-felons to pay court-imposed fines and fees before regaining the right to vote. This scheme effectively imposed a poll tax, denying people the ballot unless they had enough money to pay court debt. Moreover, it was totally unworkable: Florida has no idea how much formerly incarcerated people owe and no way to find out. As a result, Hinkle explained, even those ex-felons with the means to pay off court debt could never really be sure they paid in full. And if they miscalculated, they could be prosecuted and imprisoned.

Hinkle devised a system wherein formerly incarcerated people could ask the state to reveal how much court debt they owe. If the state could not provide an answer within three weeks, the individual regained the right to vote. Furthermore, no one could be denied the ballot simply because they couldn’t afford to pay their court debt, since wealth-based disenfranchisement violates the constitution.

On Wednesday, the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals blocked Hinkle’s order, allowing Florida to resume denying registration to people convicted of felonies.And, in a highly unusual move, the court accepted Florida’s request to hear the case en banc before a three-judge panel had the opportunity to hear it. There is only one plausible reason the court, which Donald Trump recently flipped, would’ve taken this rather shady step: The conservative majority likely worried that a three-judge panel would include two liberals who would uphold Hinkle’s order, keeping the Florida scheme on hold through the November election. So they short-circuited the appeals process, handing the state an instant victory by lifting Hinkle’s injunction and a probable long-term victory by siding with Florida down the road.

The Federal Judiciary Tells Disenfranchised Voters: You’re on Your Own

In four awful decisions over the past two weeks, federal courts cleared the way for voter suppression in November.

slate.com

Justices decline to intervene in Florida voting dispute - SCOTUSblog

The Supreme Court on Thursday rejected a request by Florida voters and civil rights groups to reinstate a ruling that would have cleared the way for thousands of Florida residents who have been convicted of a felony to vote in the state’s upcoming elections. Justice Sonia Sotomayor dissented from th

www.scotusblog.com

What's notable is that Breyer left the ladies to side with the fellas

 

[cytg111]

Just think how much of this falls back on Moscow Mitch and a stolen SC seat...

 

[HomerJS]

Just as voter fraud is a myth, so is voter suppression. The problem is Democrats just dont fucking vote.

There are court cases from at least 2 states that prove voter suppression by Republicans is real

 

[Meghan54]

There are court cases from at least 2 states that prove voter suppression by Republicans is real

Don’t you know voter suppression only matters if it’s of God-fearing white folk, not of them criminals or them “darkies”.



/s

 

[HomerJS]

Don’t you know voter suppression only matters if it’s of God-fearing white folk, not of them criminals or them “darkies”.



/s

I guess @blackangst1 just loves playing the role of resident liar. Or perhaps he does that in real life as well.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Just as voter fraud is a myth, so is voter suppression. The problem is Democrats just dont fucking vote.

Care to explain how this is not voter suppression? It literally suppresses peoples ability to vote based on their ability to pay fines.

 

[blackangst1]

What if the state and the courts have no idea what you owe and have no method to reliably tell you what your debt actually is?

Would either of you feel differently then?

What if I told you Florida was a complete shit-show when it comes to fines and fees from the justice system.

Everything costs money to the offender. A public defender costs $600+. If that’s sounds like too much you can defend yourself but they will charge your $500+ for that privilege. Any medical care, drug testing, or other services required by the state while incarcerated are also tacked on.

This all might be fine if ex-felons could get an accurate tally of the fines and fees they owe but in most cases they can’t.

A professor and a group of doctoral candidates in the legal field from a research university tried to obtain this information on behalf of 153 randomly selected felons. There were inconsistencies in all but 3 of the felons fines and fees information.

The Division or Elections is supposed to screen voter registrations for felony convictions and now unpaid fees and fines. They have 85000 pending voter registrations to review for fines and fees. The head of the office estimated it will take them past 2024 election to review these new candidates. As of now they haven’t done a single one because they cannot come up with a reliable way to determine if the fees have been payed or not.

So the judge found that SB7066 violates the 24th amendment for those who can’t pay their fees and a violation of due process due to the clusterfuck of fines and fees information for those who could pay.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics...ent-4-fines-fees-unconstitutional-ruling.html

This is interesting. Thanks