Firearms and Dementia

[Viper1j]

All you have to do is get the 2a changed. It's an amendment, after all, so you just need the votes.

Or get a president to write an EO changing it.

 

[shortylickens]

The 21st century NRA's relationship with gun manufacturers is similar to the auto industries relationship with big oil.

Charlton Heston would be ashamed.

We need a 2nd Amendment lobby group that isnt evil and crazy.

 

[blackangst1]

Those are good, but the fact is that Trump's one piece of gun legislation rolled back some mental health checks.

You do know Obama's rules that were rescinded werent even in effect, right? And you do know Obama's legislation didnt restrict anyoine's ability to purchase guns, but opened up a new way for enforcement of existing gun laws.....

Right?

 

[fskimospy]

The NRA supports, and has supported, mental health to be included in background checks

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20130124/mental-health-and-firearms

The only problem with that being that they don't believe background checks should be universal, which makes this super easy to get around. In addition, the NRA has explicitly fought to prevent the federal government from using mental health data in background checks. For example, the NRA lobbied heavily against the federal government forwarding data to the NICS for people who were getting social security disability due to certain mental problems.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/02/nra-chiefs-bogus-background-check-claims/

It's really impossible to overestimate just how evil and duplicitous an organization like the NRA is.

 

[blackangst1]

The only problem with that being that they don't believe background checks should be universal, which makes this super easy to get around. In addition, the NRA has explicitly fought to prevent the federal government from using mental health data in background checks. For example, the NRA lobbied heavily against the federal government forwarding data to the NICS for people who were getting social security disability due to certain mental problems.

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/02/nra-chiefs-bogus-background-check-claims/

It's really impossible to overestimate just how evil and duplicitous an organization like the NRA is.

When you say universally, you mean for every gun sale i.e. gun show, private sales, etc?

 

[fskimospy]

When you say universally, you mean for every gun sale i.e. gun show, private sales, etc?

Yes, every single transfer of a gun should require a background check. If it doesn't then background checks become trivially easy to get around so there's no point.

 

[blackangst1]

Yes, every single transfer of a gun should require a background check. If it doesn't then background checks become trivially easy to get around so there's no point.

I disagree, but I get your point. I just disagree with it.

 

[fskimospy]

I disagree, but I get your point. I just disagree with it.

All that aside, it seems the NRA is being more than a little disingenuous with their claims to support mental health background checks, no?

 

[blackangst1]

All that aside, it seems the NRA is being more than a little disingenuous with their claims to support mental health background checks, no?

You are correct. No.

 

[Viper1j]

When you say universally, you mean for every gun sale i.e. gun show, private sales, etc?

Don't forget when grandpa leaves you his favorite shotgun in his will, and you're only 12 years old.

 

[Paladin3]

Don't forget when grandpa leaves you his favorite shotgun in his will, and you're only 12 years old.

I got my first .22 rifle at the age of ten, followed by a single shot 20 gauge shotgun at twelve. When I was fourteen I was given a .45 caliber black powder Kentucky long rifle, and a pump 12 gauge shotgun was gifted me for my seventeenth birthday. They weren't legally mine, but my father bought them all for me to have and they lived in their cases under my bed when I wasn't using them. I moved out about the time I turned 19 and they went with me.

Parents have to know if their kids understand the difference between fantasy and reality, and if they have enough empathy to understand guns can cause real suffering, pain and death to people or animals. They have to be taught as a child to have respect for the animals they may hunt, and proper care and safe use of guns so they grow up to be responsible adults. You don't want to wait until your child is an adult to start their training on gun safety, or anything else that is important they know.

They may legally be children until age 18, but treating them as such is a recipe for raising a fuck-up. Children need to be taught responsibility, good judgement and a whole bunch of other important stuff before they hit adulthood and have to take care of themselves. Not to mention the rest of us having to rely on them and expecting them to pull their own weight as responsible adults.

 

[Muse]

Don't forget when grandpa leaves you his favorite shotgun in his will, and you're only 12 years old.

That's called red-blooded American. How do you know their blood is red? It's well established now, ask some first responders.

 

[Muse]

Parents have to know if their kids understand the difference between fantasy and reality, and if they have enough empathy to understand guns can cause real suffering, pain and death to people or animals. They have to be taught as a child to have respect for the animals they may hunt, and proper care and safe use of guns so they grow up to be responsible adults. You don't want to wait until your child is an adult to start their training on gun safety, or anything else that is important they know.

I remember as a teenager shooting a bird with a Beebe gun and watching its suffering. I haven't shot any living thing since. I was mortified and very sorry for what I did. I bought a single action pellet gun a few years ago because I had a problem with squirrels, but I haven't shot at one. Instead I found a way to repel them, not kill them.
- - -
Edit: Actually, thinking, I should add that I have killed since, but it was always for food, and not with a gun, unless you call a skin-diving spear-gun a gun. I made a living in HI diving for tako (octopus), that I sold to the local markets. I also speared a lot of fish, some lobsters too, which I ate myself or gave away. I was taught by the locals, who by and large were pragmatic about it. They didn't kill for the thrill of killing. It was a means to put food on the table.
- - -

A couple years ago or so I did some internet investigating. There's a whole culture in America of young men, many adolescent, even younger, who are into shooting animals for sport. It's grisly and off-putting.

 

[Viper1j]

I remember as a teenager shooting a bird with a Beebe gun and watching its suffering. I haven't shot any living thing since. I was mortified and very sorry for what I did. I bought a single action pellet gun a few years ago because I had a problem with squirrels, but I haven't shot at one. Instead I found a way to repel them, not kill them.

I save my ammo now for burglars and zombies.

But I have a better way. No muzzle flash to give away your position, awesome stopping power, can legally modified to full auto, and legal in all 50 states.

Cobra System Self Cocking Pistol Tactical Crossbow, 80-Pound.


And it's got some power!

 

[allisolm]

I got my first .22 rifle at the age of ten, followed by a single shot 20 gauge shotgun at twelve. When I was fourteen I was given a .45 caliber black powder Kentucky long rifle, and a pump 12 gauge shotgun was gifted me for my seventeenth birthday. They weren't legally mine, but my father bought them all for me to have and they lived in their cases under my bed when I wasn't using them.

Children need to be taught responsibility, good judgement and a whole bunch of other important stuff before they hit adulthood and have to take care of themselves.

And they can be taught all of that without growing up with even a single gun under their beds.

 

[Paladin3]

And they can be taught all of that without growing up with even a single gun under their beds.

I'm not trying to sell anyone on guns. I just disagree with those who imply owning one makes you a killer. Or that teaching a child to use one safely is akin to child abuse.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm not trying to sell anyone on guns. I just disagree with those who imply owning one makes you a killer. Or that teaching a child to use one safely is akin to child abuse.

Who exactly says those things?

 

[Paladin3]

Who exactly says those things?

Those are my words, but you only have to page back through this and other gun related threads to find folks equating owning a gun to being directly or indirectly responsible for the death of others. No, not in those EXACT words. After all, nobody responds well to crass insults, but absolutely that is the message they are trying to sell. No, not everyone, but quite a few.

If you can't accept that this is the message many anti-gunners are spreading, then I guess I don't have to accept that many equally-nutty folks on the pro-gun side believe in absolutely NO gun control whatsoever because it's a "god-given right."

You can't have it both ways, if that's what you are trying to do. And, no, that's not exactly what you said, but what I infer you are implying. Argue a relevant point, but stop calling me out on exact wording when I didn't quote anyone in a cheap attempt to win the argument.

 

[MrSquished]

This article ignores those who have neither dementia or are old but who are simply demented, such as the majority of Trumpists. How will we prevent violence from these demented right wingers in the future?

 

[shortylickens]

This article ignores those who have neither dementia or are old but who are simply demented, such as the majority of Trumpists. How will we prevent violence from these demented right wingers in the future?

You wont. The nutjobs you dont want to have guns are the most passionate about never giving them up. We let them run around armed on a college campus and Donald actually complimented them after they killed a lady (with a car interestingly enough).

They arent going anywhere.

 

[fskimospy]

Those are my words, but you only have to page back through this and other gun related threads to find folks equating owning a gun to being directly or indirectly responsible for the death of others. No, not in those EXACT words. After all, nobody responds well to crass insults, but absolutely that is the message they are trying to sell. No, not everyone, but quite a few.

If you can't accept that this is the message many anti-gunners are spreading, then I guess I don't have to accept that many equally-nutty folks on the pro-gun side believe in absolutely NO gun control whatsoever because it's a "god-given right."

You can't have it both ways, if that's what you are trying to do. And, no, that's not exactly what you said, but what I infer you are implying. Argue a relevant point, but stop calling me out on exact wording when I didn't quote anyone in a cheap attempt to win the argument.

What I’ve seen people argue is that owning a gun makes you more likely to die, which is true.

 

[TheVrolok]

Those are my words, but you only have to page back through this and other gun related threads to find folks equating owning a gun to being directly or indirectly responsible for the death of others. No, not in those EXACT words. After all, nobody responds well to crass insults, but absolutely that is the message they are trying to sell. No, not everyone, but quite a few.

If you can't accept that this is the message many anti-gunners are spreading, then I guess I don't have to accept that many equally-nutty folks on the pro-gun side believe in absolutely NO gun control whatsoever because it's a "god-given right."

You can't have it both ways, if that's what you are trying to do. And, no, that's not exactly what you said, but what I infer you are implying. Argue a relevant point, but stop calling me out on exact wording when I didn't quote anyone in a cheap attempt to win the argument.

Well, life is certainly many shades of gray. It is absolutely true that by owning a firearm you are partially complicit in gun violence as you are supporting the industry. To what degree that is, and whether or not it surpasses the threshold of "matters" are entirely different arguments. I can appreciate that you may not "feel" any level of responsibility, and I don't even think that's unreasonable, I just think it's illogical.

 

[IJTSSG]

What I’ve seen people argue is that owning a gun makes you more likely to die, which is true.

I'm fairly certain that every human being on the planet has an exactly (checks notes) 100% chance of dying. Please explain how owning a gun makes it more likely to die.

This should be good. LOL.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm fairly certain that every human being on the planet has an exactly (checks notes) 100% chance of dying. Please explain how owning a gun makes it more likely to die.

This should be good. LOL.

It makes you more likely to die in any given year. (Or whatever a study’s time horizon is) Does stuff this basic really need to be explained to you?

The mechanism for this appears to be the obvious one - easy access to lethal means makes it easier to commit homicide and suicide. When you make something easier to do it happens more often. It’s bizarre that you need this explained.

 

[TheVrolok]

It makes you more likely to die in any given year. (Or whatever a study’s time horizon is) Does stuff this basic really need to be explained to you?

The mechanism for this appears to be the obvious one - easy access to lethal means makes it easier to commit homicide and suicide. When you make something easier to do it happens more often. It’s bizarre that you need this explained.

I mean, he's just a troll, right?