Firearms and Dementia

[Jhhnn]

The NRA supports, and has supported, mental health to be included in background checks

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20130124/mental-health-and-firearms

Peachy. That doesn't address the fact that firearms are extremely durable, particularly when used infrequently & cared for occasionally.

 

[Paladin3]

no true scotsman rears its ugly head yet again.

??? Ya lost me. Please explain.

 

[purbeast0]

Something like this happened somewhat recently with my sister's father in law. He was a vietnam vet and he got diagnosed with lung cancer after not smoking for like 20 years, earlier this year. It went downhill really bad and he was living with in house hospice. A week or so before he passed away he was trying to go for his gun talking about he will kill everyone and the hospice lady basically made everyone get out of the house immediately. Fortunately nothing happened after all of that but he was then admitted to the hospital and died less than week later.

 

[Paladin3]

I think this actually is a problem we need to speak about because not everyone is responsible when it comes to dealing guns owned by elderly or those of diminished capacity. My own state representative fought against and stopped an elderly, disabled vet from being visited by a vet administration social worker to, in part, assess if he was still able to safely own his guns.

The guy had a stroke and needed the administration to provide him with a live-in aid to help him with his daily chores such as bathe, cook meals and take meds. There is also a huge problem with out vets committing suicide, so they were wanted to make sure he wasn't depressed or anything. When Republican Idaho State Representative Heather Scott and the conservative 2A purists here in North Idaho found out they held a rally outside his house, many of them legally carrying guns, and the visit was canceled.

So, right there you have proof that some feel a person should never have their fitness to own a gun scrutinized, even if the person is of diminished capacity and needs a nurse. This zero tolerance for even common sense gun control is what's killing us. But, on the other hand, who can blame them when many proponents of "reasonable gun control" see it as the one more step on the road to a complete ban.

All that said, I don't think this is the terribad crisis it's being made out to be to score political points.

 

[JSt0rm]

??? Ya lost me. Please explain.

ahahhah. of course i did.

 

[Paladin3]

ahahhah. of course i did.

OK, I looked it up. It's "an informal fallacy in which one attempts to protect a universal generalization from counterexamples by changing the definition in an ad hoc fashion to exclude the counterexample."

And I did no such fucking thing. I completely agree that this is a problem. One not every gun owner handles correctly, but that most do. And my main point was that it is nothing new. Those of us who own guns have been dealing with this for generations and generations.

Keep trying to convince yourself that you are smarter than the rest of us and dismiss my arguments out of hand without even reading them or addressing what I actually say. It's working for you SO well so far.

 

[JSt0rm]

OK, I looked it up. It's "an informal fallacy in which one attempts to protect a universal generalization from counterexamples by changing the definition in an ad hoc fashion to exclude the counterexample."

And I did no such fucking thing. I completely agree that this is a problem. One not every gun owner handles correctly, but that most do. And my main point was that it is nothing new. Those of us who own guns have been dealing with this for generations and generations.

Keep trying to convince yourself that you are smarter than the rest of us and dismiss my arguments out of hand without even reading them or addressing what I actually say. It's working for you SO well so far.

then you shouldnt of tried to segment "responsible" gun owners from those who arent. The basis of every gun argument boils down to "that person wasnt safe therefore they arent in the club"

 

[blackangst1]

Peachy. That doesn't address the fact that firearms are extremely durable, particularly when used infrequently & cared for occasionally.

What exactly does that have to with the subject?

Nothing.

 

[Muse]

then you shouldnt of tried to segment "responsible" gun owners from those who arent. The basis of every gun argument boils down to "that person wasnt safe therefore they arent in the club"

Strikes me as an oxymoron. No Such Thing as a "responsible gun owner."

 

[Jhhnn]

The NRA supports, and has supported, mental health to be included in background checks

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20130124/mental-health-and-firearms

Peachy. That doesn't address the fact that firearms are extremely durable, particularly when used infrequently & cared for occasionally.

What exactly does that have to with the subject?

Nothing.

It has everything to do with what I quoted. Background checks on new purchases today will have no effect on seniors who purchased firearms decades ago.

Your post was diversionary. I politely pointed that out.

 

[Muse]

We been having a devil of a time even getting to square one on gun control in the USA. Meantime we're in the midst of a mass killing epidemic. Can't even get background checks on gun show sales. Fantastic. The legislative and judiciary are just brain dead. Can't even get rid of the loopholes much less start disarming people. Do you really think screening gun owners is going to stop this? "Responsible gun owners." Yeah, right. We can have 200 million guns in the American public's hands and not have a serious problem? I don't think so. How many fucking guns did that Las Vegas premeditated mass shooter own? Dozens, right? In Australia that is impossible. In the USA, it's his right. Well, you may think it's his right, but I say it's unconscionable to let anybody possess such an arsenal, and don't care who they are.

 

[Commodus]

The NRA supports, and has supported, mental health to be included in background checks

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20130124/mental-health-and-firearms

Is that why the NRA cheerleads for the President whose one piece of gun legislation undid some mental health checks?

Oh, right... because it's not about genuine concern for responsible regulation and ownership, it's about whoever will remove as many restrictions as possible. If it leads to a few more mass murders, it's a small price to pay so long as gun fans can keep playing with their toys.

 

[Muse]

Is that why the NRA cheerleads for the President whose one piece of gun legislation undid some mental health checks?

Oh, right... because it's not about genuine concern for responsible regulation and ownership, it's about whoever will remove as many restrictions as possible. If it leads to a few more mass murders, it's a small price to pay so long as gun fans can keep playing with their toys.

This is not the proper time nor place to discuss this issue. This is a time for your thoughts and prayers. Now bow your heads like good little boys and girls and be quiet.

 

[Viper1j]

Don't shoot! How Do You Convince A Loved One To Give Up Their Guns?

"Families of people with dementia will often take away the car keys to keep their family member safe. They might remove knobs from stove burners or lock up medicine.

But what's less talked about is the risk of guns in the home for those with dementia.

That's a growing problem, as the U.S. population gets older and the number of people with dementia soars. According to the Alzheimer's Association, that number is expected to double in the next 20 years to about 14 million — the vast majority over the age of 65.

Researchers also estimate that nearly half of people over 65 either own a gun or live in a household with someone who does. Given those statistics, people who work with dementia patients are trying to raise awareness and make gun safety a top priority for families."

^^^ Will the hysterically fearful gun slobberers of the NRA prevent this looming crisis from being addressed in a sanely proactive manner?

Perhaps it would be a non-issue, because those with dementia most likely wouldn't even remember where the guns are located, and if they did, probably wouldn't remember how to make them work.

Just sayin'.

 

[Jhhnn]

Perhaps it would be a non-issue, because those with dementia most likely wouldn't even remember where the guns are located, and if they did, probably wouldn't remember how to make them work.

Just sayin'.

Meh. It's not like throwing a switch from OK to helpless. One day, out of the blue, my grandfather drove from Pueblo CO to a location outside Roswell NM where he ran out of gas in a blizzard. The State patrol found him & put him up in the Roswell jail. They didn't lock him in or anything like that. When my mother & sister went to get him the next day he couldn't explain what had happened at all. They took his car keys. He did OK after that for a couple of years.

 

[blackangst1]

It has everything to do with what I quoted. Background checks on new purchases today will have no effect on seniors who purchased firearms decades ago.

Your post was diversionary. I politely pointed that out.

Then why didnt you say that? And yes thats true; however, the subject of the thread is firearms and dimensia. I was simply pointing out the NRA is actively involved in the mental health aspect of owning a gun.

 

[blackangst1]

Is that why the NRA cheerleads for the President whose one piece of gun legislation undid some mental health checks?

Oh, right... because it's not about genuine concern for responsible regulation and ownership, it's about whoever will remove as many restrictions as possible. If it leads to a few more mass murders, it's a small price to pay so long as gun fans can keep playing with their toys.

Strange, then, isnt it that we still have federal and state laws on the books regarding this?

Under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d), it is unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person “has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution.”

 

[Commodus]

Strange, then, isnt it that we still have federal and state laws on the books regarding this?

Under 18 U.S.C. § 922(d), it is unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person “has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution.”

Those are good, but the fact is that Trump's one piece of gun legislation rolled back some mental health checks.

 

[feralkid]

Perhaps it would be a non-issue, because those with dementia most likely wouldn't even remember where the guns are located, and if they did, probably wouldn't remember how to make them work.

Just sayin'.

That's not really how dementia works.

 

[Jhhnn]

Then why didnt you say that? And yes thats true; however, the subject of the thread is firearms and dimensia. I was simply pointing out the NRA is actively involved in the mental health aspect of owning a gun.

I did say so, just in a way too subtle for you to catch on. Old guys who have guns have usually had them for a long time.

 

[Paladin3]

then you shouldnt of tried to segment "responsible" gun owners from those who arent. The basis of every gun argument boils down to "that person wasnt safe therefore they arent in the club"

You can keep repeating yourself but that doesn't make you right. I did no such thing. Try reading my entire post.

 

[Paladin3]

We been having a devil of a time even getting to square one on gun control in the USA. Meantime we're in the midst of a mass killing epidemic. Can't even get background checks on gun show sales. Fantastic. The legislative and judiciary are just brain dead. Can't even get rid of the loopholes much less start disarming people. Do you really think screening gun owners is going to stop this? "Responsible gun owners." Yeah, right. We can have 200 million guns in the American public's hands and not have a serious problem? I don't think so. How many fucking guns did that Las Vegas premeditated mass shooter own? Dozens, right? In Australia that is impossible. In the USA, it's his right. Well, you may think it's his right, but I say it's unconscionable to let anybody possess such an arsenal, and don't care who they are.

All you have to do is get the 2a changed. It's an amendment, after all, so you just need the votes.

 

[Paladin3]

We been having a devil of a time even getting to square one on gun control in the USA. Meantime we're in the midst of a mass killing epidemic. Can't even get background checks on gun show sales. Fantastic. The legislative and judiciary are just brain dead. Can't even get rid of the loopholes much less start disarming people. Do you really think screening gun owners is going to stop this? "Responsible gun owners." Yeah, right. We can have 200 million guns in the American public's hands and not have a serious problem? I don't think so. How many fucking guns did that Las Vegas premeditated mass shooter own? Dozens, right? In Australia that is impossible. In the USA, it's his right. Well, you may think it's his right, but I say it's unconscionable to let anybody possess such an arsenal, and don't care who they are.

How the heck do you think you are going to get the gun show "loophole" closed when you talk openly about disarming people? You have to first convince gun owners you only want a little bit of "reasonable" gun control so they will compromise and accept it. Then you continue taking tiny baby steps towards a complete ban so folks can get used to it little by little. Before you know it you will have snuck in the ban you want. When you mention your ultimate goal of disarming people up front it scares gun owners into digging in like ticks on a hound dog and they refuse to compromise on any additional gun control whatsoever. Good job.

 

[Muse]

All you have to do is get the 2a changed. It's an amendment, after all, so you just need the votes.

Or have it interpreted differently. The American public has to demand change. If they are OK with their kids being terrorized on a regular basis, well, they're just plain nuts.

 

[Muse]

How the heck do you think you are going to get the gun show "loophole" closed when you talk openly about disarming people? You have to first convince gun owners you only want a little bit of "reasonable" gun control so they will compromise and accept it. Then you continue taking tiny baby steps towards a complete ban so folks can get used to it little by little. Before you know it you will have snuck in the ban you want. When you mention your ultimate goal of disarming people up front it scares gun owners into digging in like ticks on a hound dog and they refuse to compromise on any additional gun control whatsoever. Good job.

Ha ha. Well, this is a fine kettle of fish, isn't it? I won't prevaricate, won't pretend to have a position other than complete removal of guns from the citizenry and even the police. Even the military should be closely monitored in terms of when and how they possess firearms. Yeah, that's me.

They can burrow like ticks into a hound dog, but they're still just ticks on a hound dog. "You ain't nothin' but a hounddog!" I like it. If you hug your guns, you ain't no friend of mine!