Ferguson... 75% of population have outstanding arrest warrants

[Rhonda the Sly]

Please find proof that there are arrest warrants for "high grass and weeds", or otherwise shut the fuck up and on't use it as an example. Every state has idiotic antiquated laws that are not enforced. They're just old and never used.

While this wasn't specifically addressed to me, the report does include the below tidbit, proving there was at least one person fined for "High Grass". There aren't many more useful mentions of "High Grass" offenses in the report but I'd be willing to bet there are more. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any statistics.

e. High Fines, Coupled with Legally Inadequate Ability-to-Pay Determinations and Insufficient Alternatives to Immediate Payment, Impose a Significant Burden on People Living In or Near Poverty
It is common for a single traffic stop or other encounter with FPD to give rise to fines in amounts that a person living in poverty is unable to immediately pay. This fact is attributable in part to FPD’s practice of issuing multiple citations—frequently three or more—on a single stop. This fact is also attributable to the fine assessment practices of the Ferguson municipal court, including not only the high fine amounts imposed, but also the inadequate process available for those who cannot afford to pay a fine. Even setting aside cases where additional fines and fees were imposed for Failure to Appear violations, our investigation found instances in which the court charged $302 for a single Manner of Walking violation; $427 for a single Peace Disturbance violation; $531 for High Grass and Weeds; $777 for Resisting Arrest; and $792 for Failure to Obey, and $527 for Failure to Comply, which officers appear to use interchangeably.

This is an official report or just a citizens account? Since she recorded it, there should be proof. If so, that is terrible. If there is no proof, then stop trying to claim it is true.

That comes directly from the DOJ report. Note the first line "These accounts are drawn entirely from officers’ own descriptions, recorded in offense reports."

Page 45 has more good stuff.

a. Court Practices and Procedural Deficiencies Create a Lack of Transparency Regarding Rights and Responsibilities
It is often difficult for an individual who receives a municipal citation or summons in Ferguson to know how much is owed, where and how to pay the ticket, what the options for payment are, what rights the individual has, and what the consequences are for various actions or oversights. The initial information provided to people who are cited for violating Ferguson’s municipal code is often incomplete or inconsistent. Communication with municipal court defendants is haphazard and known by the court to be unreliable. And the court’s procedures and operations are ambiguous, are not written down, and are not transparent or even available to the public on the court’s website or elsewhere.

Aside from a small number of exceptions, the Municipal Judge issues rules of practice and procedure verbally and on an ad hoc basis. Until recently, on the rare occasion that the Judge issued a written order that altered court practices, those orders were not distributed broadly...

...

Ferguson, unlike other courts in the region, does not include any information about its operations on its website other than inaccurate instructions about how to make payment.

Many times, however, FPD officers omit critical information from the citation ... the fact that the court staff routinely add the speed to tickets weeks after they are issued raises concerns about the accuracy and reliability of officers’ assertions in official records.

We have also found evidence that in issuing citations, FPD officers frequently provide people with incorrect information about the date and time of their assigned court session.

In addition, as Ferguson’s Municipal Judge confirmed, it is not uncommon for him to add charges and assess additional fines when a defendant challenges the citation that brought the defendant into court. Appearing in court in Ferguson also requires waits that can stretch into hours, sometimes outdoors in inclement weather.

 

[Dari]

No surprise at all. When the state directs the police to harass the people, the state can make criminals out of the population real quick. A big difference between Ferguson and a typical white community is the white community isn't harassed\oppressed by the police over inane laws. However the laws are there just waiting to be used should the state decide to start oppressing that community.

It amazes me how many in the white community don't make the connection that a sizeable percentage of people are criminals because the state is using its power to make them criminals. Not because they are criminal people by nature.

For white communities, the police mainly focus on outsiders who they know would rather pay the fine than return to West Bubblefuck.

 

[1prophet]

No surprise at all. When the state directs the police to harass the people, the state can make criminals out of the population real quick. A big difference between Ferguson and a typical white community is the white community isn't harassed\oppressed by the police over inane laws. However the laws are there just waiting to be used should the state decide to start oppressing that community.

It amazes me how many in the white community don't make the connection that a sizeable percentage of people are criminals because the state is using its power to make them criminals. Not because they are criminal people by nature.

There are plenty of these laws being used in the white community,

the poor white community that has little political pull and/or weak finances along with a poor understanding of their rights,

The greatest thing in your defense is knowing your rights and how to properly assert them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4nQ_mFJV4I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

 

[shortylickens]

If the town is a giant speed trap then its possible every resident of the midwest is at risk, in which case its 16,000 speeding tickets on 20 million people.

 

[Fern]

No surprise at all. When the state directs the police to harass the people, the state can make criminals out of the population real quick. A big difference between Ferguson and a typical white community is the white community isn't harassed\oppressed by the police over inane laws. However the laws are there just waiting to be used should the state decide to start oppressing that community.

It amazes me how many in the white community don't make the connection that a sizeable percentage of people are criminals because the state is using its power to make them criminals. Not because they are criminal people by nature.

I think talk of making people "criminals" is misplaced.

Infractions for parking and traffic (moving violations) offenses do not make one a criminal.

One of the obvious problems in Ferguson is that many Black people do not show up in court when summoned to do so, and do not pay fines and tickets. I don't care what color you are (how do court officials know from the ticket what color the offender is?), if you don't pay or show up a warrant will be issued. Edit: Just remembered that on my last ticket it did give sex/race info

I've been in court a few times. 95% of the defendants were white and the excuse that they didn't have any money to pay the fine didn't help them one bit.

I'm not defending the City of Ferguson, I haven't even bothered with all the details of their crappy system, but will tell you that the system works to make people comply. Every system I've come into contact with is designed to keep ratcheting up the pressure for non-compliance until you DO comply.

Not having money sucks. This applies whether you live in Ferguson some where else.

Every police dept etc is designed to generate revenue. Whether DUI, pot bust or traffic ticket, the system is designed to collect revenue. This is true whether you live in Ferguson or elsewhere.

If you haven't spent half a day sitting in court when they run through the DUI's and no driver licenses or no vehicle registration cases, do it and you'll see what I'm saying.

Fern

 

[tracerbullet]

http://www.justice.gov/sites/defaul...5/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf

OK, so having read this - there really is / was a problem there.

It's easy to compare Ferguson, without having ever gone there, to anywhere any of us live currently. For most of us if you don't screw with the police they don't screw with you. In Ferguson that was much less of a likelihood where, per what the DOJ found, blacks really were unfairly targeted.

I dunno. It's easy to dismiss this as a bunch of thugs getting what they deserved. I'm sure there are instances where that's true. As I'm sure there are instances of good cops as well. But in the end they really appear to have had a serious problem that is unlike anything most of us experience.

I encourage anyone to give the report a read, or at least browse it. It paints a pretty awful picture.

 

[IGBT]

and how many listen to "gangsta" rapCrap??

 

[Art&Science]

This kind of thing has been going on for at least 50 years. Many of the police departments in the St. Louis metro area are completely corrupt.

When I was a kid I lived in Belleville which is across the river on the Illinois side. We knew a Belleville police lieutenant who told my father and mother on more than one occasion, that if they were to be pulled over in Missouri, especially in East St. Louis, they should NOT stop, but drive across the river into Illinois and straight to the Belleville police station. Whatever the reason for the stop, it would be sorted out in the presence of the Belleville police.

This actually did happen to my mother who was traveling alone through East St. Louis, approaching the river two East St. Louis police cars got behind her and tried to pull her over - she did not stop but continued across the bridge into Illinois, the police did not follow her.

Later that year we moved north to Peoria.

 

[brycejones]

and how many listen to "gangsta" rapCrap??

What kind of dumb ass redneck crap do you listen to? Hey if we're going to judge people by their musical tastes please post yours so we can judge you appropriately.

 

[IGBT]

What kind of dumb ass redneck crap do you listen to? Hey if we're going to judge people by their musical tastes please post yours so we can judge you appropriately.

..I listen to rapCrap. I know it's content thru and thru.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

man ferguson isnt doing anything that every other city isnt doing. in the two cities i live in they illegally tow cars just to make money and two police agencies patrol the same mile of street, trying to make a living giving traffic tickets

 

[Ackmed]

While this wasn't specifically addressed to me, the report does include the below tidbit, proving there was at least one person fined for "High Grass". There aren't many more useful mentions of "High Grass" offenses in the report but I'd be willing to bet there are more. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any statistics.


That comes directly from the DOJ report. Note the first line "These accounts are drawn entirely from officers’ own descriptions, recorded in offense reports."

Page 45 has more good stuff.

In the first post (and title) you claimed that there were warrants for the high grass. Now you claim that only a ticket was issued, and just one. You know nothing about what happened. Just assuming. You do not know where, how high it was, how many warnings were given, nothing. If you think an Officer drove by a residence and decided to just write someone for high grass you have to be delusional. What likely happened is homeowners of neighboring residences complained. But since your source doesn't explain, guess we'll never know. Again, you claimed warrants for this, and only a single ticket was issued per your source.

The descriptions were not from police reports. Your source claimed that "many times" date of courts and locations were left off of tickets. Your source claimed that the speed of a speeding ticked was left off a ticket "many times". How many times constitutes "many"? What percentage of tickets had mistakes? That is not in your sources information.

Claims that it is hard to determine where to go for court, and problems attending are also left to the imagination. That people did not know how to pay, or what to do. No exact numbers, no percentages. Much is left to personal interpretation. I have had my license taken away twice, once for points and once for failure to pay. I have also been arrested. I didn't cry fowl, I accepted the consequences and paid my due. Had to drive to the capitol to get my damn license back and attend traffic court twice. I have serious doubts that if people wanted to know what court to go to, or how to pay that they could not have found out. Going to the actual court house, police station, etc would have solved the problems. But in these days people look for any out they can.

Humans make mistakes, that is a fact. It is pretty clear to anyone who is open minded and not driven by an agenda that you and your "source" are pretty bias. You want to make things out worse than they actually are. You want to lay blame on someone other than who actually broke the laws. Are there problems with the PD? Yeah, they are. Are there in any government agency or business? Yeah there are. I am not going to go back and forth with you or anyone else about this. You made claims that were not true, and couldn't back them up. Making things out to be worse than they are, by not giving correct percentages and numbers. Just using words like "many" without anything to back it up. Likewise people making claims that the police are illegally towing vehicles with no evidence or circumstances are idiots. There are rules to parking, direction, distance from the curb, relation to hydrants, etc. Not even worth the time. Done.

 

[brycejones]

..I listen to rapCrap. I know it's content thru and thru.

I find that hard to believe

 

[umbrella39]

I find that hard to believe

I think the only time he listens to it is when he is backpedaling on his tiny little bike on his way home from the liquor store...

 

[Whiskey16]

Rhonda the Sky and others offered quite decent citations that condemn the Ferguson force, and quite applicable to others. Immoral and reprehensional intent and action is of little concern by the government powers if the darkies don't have the civil responsibility to simply show up in court, and thereby lazily choose and deserve to become criminal:

I'm not defending the City of Ferguson..

You most certainly are:

Infractions for parking and traffic (moving violations) offenses do not make one a criminal.

One of the obvious problems in Ferguson is that many Black people do not show up in court when summoned to do so, and do not pay fines and tickets. I don't care what color you are (how do court officials know from the ticket what color the offender is?), if you don't pay or show up a warrant will be issued.

Summoned to return to court for frivolous issues and an expected result from the record of disproportionate targeting of a visible and economically distraught population. This re-enforces an already marginalised population to perpetually be abused to maintain the economic viability of thesepathetically small and economically inept communities.

Show up in court, for multiple calls a year for various infractions, waiting through long lines on ONLY that single and arbitrary date, that may not be deferred, and by being present court risk losing employment or at least a pay cheque from the job that barely enables a level of sustenance, let along entering servitude to good-'ol-boys municipal fiscal ineptness.

Fern, you are on record for defending a corrupt, vile, and inexcusable system and misplacing "criminal" blame upon "blacks" for the situation the bloody southern and fiscally inept racists choose to indenture a disproportionately targeted population into paying servitude.

No practical defence there, Fern, your position is rationally condemned.

If districts such as Ferguson refuse to change their budget meeting ways upon the backs of an enforced servitude class, then by all means, let your federal government come down hard.

Ferguson and others can disband their Cleetus badged gangs to be replaced by relatively better trained, and overlooked forces of the larger region. By doing so they will loose they immoral cash grab from the forcefully indentured class, and expectedly, become bankrupt. Good. These little segregating fiefdoms morally deserve to fall under their own immoral stupidity.

After the collapse of corrupt police forces and government, then so should the extremely segregated class of school systems also come down.

 

[IGBT]

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGBT View Post
..I listen to rapCrap. I know it's content thru and thru.
I find that hard to believe



you believe all the other BS out here..Wat?? am I not black enough for ya??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFXED_dnZ_Y

 

[chucky2]

I am sure this won't be popular to say here, but, there are some towns that trash just collects there and the town is a shithole. Just sayin...

 

[Blanky]

I'm not surprised to see some still continuing to rage on this point, but to my original question I return: how many of these arrest warrants--what percentage--are for tiny bogus things like looking at a cop wrong and he takes offense vs legitimate offenses for which an arrest warrant is reasonable?

This 75% figure without context means nothing.

Show up in court, for multiple calls a year for various infractions, waiting through long lines on ONLY that single and arbitrary date, that may not be deferred, and by being present court risk losing employment or at least a pay cheque from the job that barely enables a level of sustenance, let along entering servitude to good-'ol-boys municipal fiscal ineptness.

Are these all frivolous? What is the alternative, to let a person show up at court whenever they want? Do all these people not going to court have jobs they are otherwise missing?

You know we don't have to choose sides here. It's okay to say that both the police and the local community together are why everything is so broken.

 

[Jhhnn]

This 75% figure without context means nothing.

It's worse than that- it's completely bogus, as I pointed out earlier. There is absolutely no indication that the warrants were issued exclusively to Ferguson residents. The proposition is absurd, particularly considering that greater St Louis has 2.8M residents & that Ferguson cops patrol I-270, a major route across the Mississippi. Blowing off out of state tickets is damned near the national pastime.

 

[Jhhnn]

I

You know we don't have to choose sides here. It's okay to say that both the police and the local community together are why everything is so broken.

Please. Ferguson is not particularly poor or particularly black for the St Louis area. They just have a particularly shitty police dept.

Nifty App & info-

http://www.city-data.com/poverty/poverty-Ferguson-Missouri.html

Zoom out & click on different areas to get a better picture.

 

[werepossum]

No surprise at all. When the state directs the police to harass the people, the state can make criminals out of the population real quick. A big difference between Ferguson and a typical white community is the white community isn't harassed\oppressed by the police over inane laws. However the laws are there just waiting to be used should the state decide to start oppressing that community.

It amazes me how many in the white community don't make the connection that a sizeable percentage of people are criminals because the state is using its power to make them criminals. Not because they are criminal people by nature.

Well said.

The City of Ferguson needs to be dissolved, all its functions taken over by the county or by St. Louis, and all warrants below murder/DUI/rape/armed robbery thrown out. The whole area needs a very visible reboot.

 

[cabri]

Well said.

The City of Ferguson needs to be dissolved, all its functions taken over by the county or by St. Louis, and all warrants below murder/DUI/rape/armed robbery thrown out. The whole area needs a very visible reboot.

An effort also needs to be made to make a concerted effort to go after those on your list. Assign a task force to start collecting.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Please find proof that there are arrest warrants for "high grass and weeds", or otherwise shut the fuck up and on't use it as an example. Every state has idiotic antiquated laws that are not enforced. They're just old and never used.



This is an official report or just a citizens account? Since she recorded it, there should be proof. If so, that is terrible. If there is no proof, then stop trying to claim it is true.

There are all kinds of fucked up things going on in FPD and THIS is what got you all hot and bothered??? One or 2 reports out of many that MIGHT not be 100% provable? The racist jokes sent over public emails, charging a man with bleeding on officers uniforms after the beat the shit out of him, and any other number of horrible shit these guys did doesn't matter at all to you? This citzien's account, whether it's an official police report or not, sounds extremely plausible given what we've heard about this dept. At this point I would find it LESS believable if it WERE an official report.

 

[brycejones]

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGBT View Post
..I listen to rapCrap. I know it's content thru and thru.
I find that hard to believe



you believe all the other BS out here..Wat?? am I not black enough for ya??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFXED_dnZ_Y

I have no idea what color you are nor do I care. You appear to be stereotyping people based on the music you "think" they listen to which is a retarded position on your part.

But like most of your idiotic posts you just drop some turd and run away without ever expanding on your "point".

 

[Fern]

-snip-
Summoned to return to court for frivolous issues and an expected result from the record of disproportionate targeting of a visible and economically distraught population. This re-enforces an already marginalised population to perpetually be abused to maintain the economic viability of thesepathetically small and economically inept communities.

Show up in court, for multiple calls a year for various infractions, waiting through long lines on ONLY that single and arbitrary date, that may not be deferred, and by being present court risk losing employment or at least a pay cheque from the job that barely enables a level of sustenance, let along entering servitude to good-'ol-boys municipal fiscal ineptness.

Fern, you are on record for defending a corrupt, vile, and inexcusable system and misplacing "criminal" blame upon "blacks" for the situation the bloody southern and fiscally inept racists choose to indenture a disproportionately targeted population into paying servitude.

No practical defence there, Fern, your position is rationally condemned.

Bullshit.

Every city I've in, and that covers quite a few in different states, you pay the ticket and/or show up in court. If you don't, there are consequences.

You don't get out of it just because you claim hardship - no matter what color you are. PERIOD.

Somebody has a (valid) complaint about a frivolous ticket? Fine (but join the effen club).

You want to just blow off the ticket and ignore court summons? You're an idiot who thinks they're 'special' and I've got zero sympathy.

Fern