Ferguson... 75% of population have outstanding arrest warrants

[Whiskey16]

Bullshit.
...
Every city I've in, and that covers quite a few in different states, you pay the ticket and/or show up in court. If you don't, there are consequences.

You want to just blow off the ticket and ignore court summons? You're an idiot who thinks they're 'special' and I've got zero sympathy.

The indefensible "bullshit," Fern, is that you've ignored or dismissed all of the presented citations of extreme abuse of power by these authorities upon a targeted class of the population enforced into servitude all to meet the needs of municipal immoral and fiscal ineptness.

You are clear Fern, those darn "blacks" choose to become "criminals" for not repeatedly showing up at court...

Fern's stance - nothing wrong to see here, happens 'everwhere else' (BULLSHIT), the problem lies with the darkies ("blacks" as per Fern's afformentioned identification) not doing their civic duty and showing up to court when summoned by a corrupt authorities (the Southern Man) .

 

[Fern]

The indefensible "bullshit," Fern, is that you've ignored or dismissed all of the presented citations of extreme abuse of power by these authorities upon a targeted class of the population enforced into servitude all to meet the needs of municipal immoral and fiscal ineptness.

You are clear Fern, those darn "blacks" choose to become "criminals" for not repeatedly showing up at court...

Fern's stance - nothing wrong to see here, happens 'everwhere else' (BULLSHIT), the problem lies with the darkies ("blacks" as per Fern's afformentioned identification) not doing their civic duty and showing up to court when summoned by a corrupt authorities (the Southern Man) .

Oh looky, a Liberal up on his high horse.

I already said IDK all the details etc:

I'm not defending the City of Ferguson, I haven't even bothered with all the details of their crappy system, but will tell you that the system works to make people comply.

The damn report was in excess of 100 pages. I'm not reading all that.

Otherwise, carry on with your BS diatribe. Check that: Just grow up.

Fern

 

[MongGrel]

Speed trap city accused of corruption, threatened with extinction


http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/09/us/hampton-florida-corruption/index.html

$132,000 at the convenience store next door, heh.

Going into rural FL is a scarey thing.

I won't even comment on a few of my fellow co-workers where I am now, I miss Honeywell since they shut the tool shop down, should have just moved out of the state then.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Bullshit.

Every city I've in, and that covers quite a few in different states, you pay the ticket and/or show up in court. If you don't, there are consequences.

You don't get out of it just because you claim hardship - no matter what color you are. PERIOD.

Somebody has a (valid) complaint about a frivolous ticket? Fine (but join the effen club).

You want to just blow off the ticket and ignore court summons? You're an idiot who thinks they're 'special' and I've got zero sympathy.

Fern

I think the point is that it's an insanely inconvenient process that offers no leniency on rescheduling. If I were poor and it was a struggle to miss work and/or provide different child care, then the ability to reschedule a court date would be pretty huge. They might not get PTO like you do. Missing a day at work might mean missing a rent payment. Combine this with the feds coming in and saying it's basically a revenue generating racket, and it's really tough for me to understand you calling bullshit on the previous post. Furthermore, you seem to think that people are blowing off the court date due to the fact that they think they are special. Do you know for a fact that's their attitude? Have you spoken with even one of them? You're one of the smarter posters on AT but don't you think this was a bit harsh and judgmental of a post?

 

[Pipeline 1010]

Oh looky, a Liberal up on his high horse.

I already said IDK all the details etc:



The damn report was in excess of 100 pages. I'm not reading all that.

Otherwise, carry on with your BS diatribe. Check that: Just grow up.

Fern

Dude, what is wrong with you today? You might want to check the definition of diatribe and decide if it applies to your last few posts.

 

[werepossum]

An effort also needs to be made to make a concerted effort to go after those on your list. Assign a task force to start collecting.

I agree completely, but the Ferguson police and/or governing parties cannot do it. They have no credibility.

Bullshit.

Every city I've in, and that covers quite a few in different states, you pay the ticket and/or show up in court. If you don't, there are consequences.

You don't get out of it just because you claim hardship - no matter what color you are. PERIOD.

Somebody has a (valid) complaint about a frivolous ticket? Fine (but join the effen club).

You want to just blow off the ticket and ignore court summons? You're an idiot who thinks they're 'special' and I've got zero sympathy.

Fern

In principle I agree completely. But it's clear to me that Ferguson is so deeply corrupt that their system is designed this way intentionally. Look at Randy Weaver; the BATFE contrived a bogus weapons charge to force him to be an informant, then when he refused they moved up his court date without telling him. When he showed up at his appointed court date he was arrested for missing his court date, even though the BATFE admitted to the judge that they had not notified him of the changed date. That's the BATFE, and as corrupt as they are they are boy scouts compared to Ferguson. Pretty soon word gets around that if you show up, you are going to be arrested, period, and put into supervised probation which will cost more than you can afford. That's the only way a town can get outstanding warrants equal to 75% of its population; there simply aren't that many criminals in any population, let alone that many criminals getting caught. This is Ferguson's industry.

Same with the racist emails. I've gotten them; I jump all over the person sending them and it never happens again, period. (Oddly there seems to be a kind of respect engendered by this, as if the sender was forced to send it against his will and is relieved when you refuse it. Go figure.) If they are getting racist emails, it's because they WANT to get racist emails. It's simply part and parcel of a town that sees its population as its cattle, to be milked, sold off or slaughtered as needed.

I'm not overly concerned with racism in today's America, but this is institutionalized racism backed by the armed might of government. There HAS to be zero tolerance for this, ever. This is not something that can be overlooked in the name of free speech or law and order. This threatens the very character of our nation, way beyond politics.

 

[Blanky]

Look at Randy Weaver; the BATFE contrived a bogus weapons charge to force him to be an informant, then when he refused they moved up his court date without telling him. When he showed up at his appointed court date he was arrested for missing his court date, even though the BATFE admitted to the judge that they had not notified him of the changed date.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Weaver

Weaver's original court date was Feb. 19 1991; it was changed to the following day, but Pretrial Services sent Weaver a notice citing the date as March 20. As a result, Weaver missed the hearing and a bench warrant was issued for his arrest, with the U.S. Marshals Service directed to serve it. By Feb. 27, it was widely known that Weaver had been given the wrong date. The U.S. Marshals Service wanted to allow Weaver the opportunity to show up in court on March 20, but the U.S. Attorneys Office sought a grand jury indictment on March 14 for Weaver's failure to appear. This convinced Randy and Vicki Weaver that he had no chance of a fair hearing.

Wtf, this is like being arrested for resisting arrest.

 

[cabri]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Weaver
Wtf, this is like being arrested for resisting arrest.

when the government decides that they have an axe to grind; all rules will be bent and broken/ignored to ensure that the outcome is obtained.

One has to have a lot of pull/$$$ to counter-act such actions.

 

[Kwatt]

One has to have a lot of pull/$$$ to counter-act such actions.

You can have as much Justice as you can afford....

.

 

[Pipeline 1010]

In principle I agree completely. But it's clear to me that Ferguson is so deeply corrupt that their system is designed this way intentionally. Look at Randy Weaver; the BATFE contrived a bogus weapons charge to force him to be an informant, then when he refused they moved up his court date without telling him. When he showed up at his appointed court date he was arrested for missing his court date, even though the BATFE admitted to the judge that they had not notified him of the changed date. That's the BATFE, and as corrupt as they are they are boy scouts compared to Ferguson. Pretty soon word gets around that if you show up, you are going to be arrested, period, and put into supervised probation which will cost more than you can afford. That's the only way a town can get outstanding warrants equal to 75% of its population; there simply aren't that many criminals in any population, let alone that many criminals getting caught. This is Ferguson's industry.

Same with the racist emails. I've gotten them; I jump all over the person sending them and it never happens again, period. (Oddly there seems to be a kind of respect engendered by this, as if the sender was forced to send it against his will and is relieved when you refuse it. Go figure.) If they are getting racist emails, it's because they WANT to get racist emails. It's simply part and parcel of a town that sees its population as its cattle, to be milked, sold off or slaughtered as needed.

I'm not overly concerned with racism in today's America, but this is institutionalized racism backed by the armed might of government. There HAS to be zero tolerance for this, ever. This is not something that can be overlooked in the name of free speech or law and order. This threatens the very character of our nation, way beyond politics.

This was a FANTASTIC post. Thanks for putting this into words far more eloquently than I could. :thumbsup:

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm not overly concerned with racism in today's America, but this is institutionalized racism backed by the armed might of government. There HAS to be zero tolerance for this, ever. This is not something that can be overlooked in the name of free speech or law and order. This threatens the very character of our nation, way beyond politics.

Institutionalized racism is much, much bigger than Ferguson. Witness the disparate incarceration rate. That can only happen with underlying racist sentiment among the majority white population. Otherwise, we'd never have let it happen.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

Institutionalized racism is much, much bigger than Ferguson. Witness the disparate incarceration rate. That can only happen with underlying racist sentiment among the majority white population. Otherwise, we'd never have let it happen.

in general its gov and corporate scum preying on poor/powerless people. there isnt anything going on in ferguson that isnt going on in any courtroom and poor neighborhood in america

 

[Blanky]

Institutionalized racism is much, much bigger than Ferguson. Witness the disparate incarceration rate. That can only happen with underlying racist sentiment among the majority white population. Otherwise, we'd never have let it happen.

A disparate incarceration rate is representative of one or both things:
1) Blacks are being mistreated due to race
2) Blacks are committing more crimes

We both know the answer is in fact both 1 and 2. I have no idea what a "reasonable" incarceration rate is for blacks, but since they are not committing crimes at the same rates as other races I wouldn't expect it to be the same as other races.

Go look up FBI crime data by race. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-43 Why are Asians, who represent 5-6% of the population, only around 1.5% of arrests? Is underlying racial sentiment that is pro-asian getting them off more than they deserve? Possibly, but not enough to account for this disparity.

 

[Thebobo]

Dude, what is wrong with you today? You might want to check the definition of diatribe and decide if it applies to your last few posts.

Dude? I thought Fern was a lady.

 

[realibrad]

There is racism, and it is a problem. Ferguson is a clear example of how racism can be worked into the government and hold back people. The worry I have is that people are going to ask for reform that will hurt more than it helps. They are going to assume racism in places that may not have a structural racism problem. I hope this leads to a cleaning of house, when ever racism is found, instead of cleaning house when racism is assumed.

Ferguson is a fucked up place, and I hope things get better.

 

[HomerJS]

A disparate incarceration rate is representative of one or both things:
1) Blacks are being mistreated due to race
2) Blacks are committing more crimes

We both know the answer is in fact both 1 and 2. I have no idea what a "reasonable" incarceration rate is for blacks, but since they are not committing crimes at the same rates as other races I wouldn't expect it to be the same as other races.

Go look up FBI crime data by race. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-43 Why are Asians, who represent 5-6% of the population, only around 1.5% of arrests? Is underlying racial sentiment that is pro-asian getting them off more than they deserve? Possibly, but not enough to account for this disparity.

I'm convinced #2 is misleading. I thinks its relegated to poorer blacks. Question do middle and upper class black commit crimes disproportionate to others? I believe the answer is no. A larger percentage of blacks are poor/unemployed

 

[werepossum]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Weaver
Wtf, this is like being arrested for resisting arrest.

Exactly. This was admitted in court and the judge made no exception for it. Ferguson appears to me to be this same situation writ into policy.

This was a FANTASTIC post. Thanks for putting this into words far more eloquently than I could. :thumbsup:

<blush>

I'm convinced #2 is misleading. I thinks its relegated to poorer blacks. Question do middle and upper class black commit crimes disproportionate to others? I believe the answer is no. A larger percentage of blacks are poor/unemployed

That's a lot of it. People with more to lose tend to be more concerned about losing it and thus less likely to commit crimes. People with money are also more likely to gain alternate punishments - probation, rehab, pleading to a lesser crime. (My wife saw one of our town's lawyers adamantly denying that his client had been driving while intoxicated, but in the interest of not clogging the legal system his client was willing to plead guilty to First Offense DUI. If accepted (which it well might have been) it would have been his thirteenth such conviction IIRC. You don't do that if you are poor, since they know it likely won't take long to convict you anyway.) The rest of it can be corrected for single parent households - kids raised by a single parent (often not the actual parent at all, but a grandparent) are more likely to run wild. If memory serves, merely correcting for that one factor pretty much equalizes crime rates across racial lines. None of that doesn't actually change the fact that blacks commit more crimes, but it's critical to understand if one is proposing something to change that.

That's everywhere though. Seems to me that Ferguson is beyond the demographics of the population itself, where the government has moved beyond ignoring underlying factors into intentionally farming crimes.

 

[bradly1101]

They say that blacks were targeted to fill the city's coffers but I think they were also trying to make it too expensive and too much of a hassle to live there and be black. They're trying to get them to leave.

 

[Jhhnn]

Exactly. This was admitted in court and the judge made no exception for it. Ferguson appears to me to be this same situation writ into policy.


<blush>


That's a lot of it. People with more to lose tend to be more concerned about losing it and thus less likely to commit crimes. People with money are also more likely to gain alternate punishments - probation, rehab, pleading to a lesser crime. (My wife saw one of our town's lawyers adamantly denying that his client had been driving while intoxicated, but in the interest of not clogging the legal system his client was willing to plead guilty to First Offense DUI. If accepted (which it well might have been) it would have been his thirteenth such conviction IIRC. You don't do that if you are poor, since they know it likely won't take long to convict you anyway.) The rest of it can be corrected for single parent households - kids raised by a single parent (often not the actual parent at all, but a grandparent) are more likely to run wild. If memory serves, merely correcting for that one factor pretty much equalizes crime rates across racial lines. None of that doesn't actually change the fact that blacks commit more crimes, but it's critical to understand if one is proposing something to change that.

That's everywhere though. Seems to me that Ferguson is beyond the demographics of the population itself, where the government has moved beyond ignoring underlying factors into intentionally farming crimes.

Entirely circular. Begin from acknowledged racist enforcement. Fail to acknowledge that it skews crime statistics so that you can claim blacks commit more crime.

Funny how that works.

 

[Darwin333]

There are nothing wrong with Ferguson's laws. I would say that all communities around the nation have laws that differ from one community to the other and some will seem strange while others will not. It is not different from anywhere else.

The issue is with the population. It's filled with thugs and illiterate. It's a jungle in there...

How do you expect a population to react when their justice system is running literal debtors prison?

The courts have actually locked the courtroom doors 30 minutes before someone is ordered to appear. So if you show up on time you are not allowed into the courtroom and a warrant is issued for your arrest along with new fines and fees. Don't worry though, they will put you on a payment plan with interest so high and payment options so low (because they are fucking poor) that they will never pay it off. Throw in fees just for the pleasure of giving the government your money and even more fines thrown on top if you miss a payment by a day or even another warrant that you may or may not know about. That leads to an arrest, few days missed work while you try to make bail or see a judge (which from what I read takes a while in Ferguson)......

 

[Darwin333]

I don't think a lot of those arrest warrants will be processed unless the city has a budget shortfall.

The warrants are kind of like a savings account. Once arrested the fines and fees start. If all the warrants were processed at once it would overload the system. Even with the time served and probation deals. Once a deal is accepted the probation fees start.

If there ever comes a day when most of the people in the court house for non-violent offenses plead not-guilty and refuse to put up bail or post bond the system will colapse. There is no place to hold them and it would cost a fortune to feed them. They would be released ROR and it would take years to hold trials.

Here locally it would add about 300 people a month. And the jails are already over-capacity with violent offenders.


.

Over half of Fergusons revenue comes from fines and fees related to the justice system, the vast majority of which are minor traffic citations which often snowball to owing thousands.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Bullshit.

Every city I've in, and that covers quite a few in different states, you pay the ticket and/or show up in court. If you don't, there are consequences.

You don't get out of it just because you claim hardship - no matter what color you are. PERIOD.

Somebody has a (valid) complaint about a frivolous ticket? Fine (but join the effen club).

You want to just blow off the ticket and ignore court summons? You're an idiot who thinks they're 'special' and I've got zero sympathy.

Fern

You've apparently missed the entire fucking point, that the bulk of these citations are FRIVOLOUS, and disproportionately target the minority community. Even in the face of OVERWHELMING evidence, you continue to give the police the benefit of the doubt. We all know what the underlying issue is here, you are an ardent racist, who thinks denying it is enough to let you off the hook.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I agree completely, but the Ferguson police and/or governing parties cannot do it. They have no credibility.


In principle I agree completely. But it's clear to me that Ferguson is so deeply corrupt that their system is designed this way intentionally. Look at Randy Weaver; the BATFE contrived a bogus weapons charge to force him to be an informant, then when he refused they moved up his court date without telling him. When he showed up at his appointed court date he was arrested for missing his court date, even though the BATFE admitted to the judge that they had not notified him of the changed date. That's the BATFE, and as corrupt as they are they are boy scouts compared to Ferguson. Pretty soon word gets around that if you show up, you are going to be arrested, period, and put into supervised probation which will cost more than you can afford. That's the only way a town can get outstanding warrants equal to 75% of its population; there simply aren't that many criminals in any population, let alone that many criminals getting caught. This is Ferguson's industry.

Same with the racist emails. I've gotten them; I jump all over the person sending them and it never happens again, period. (Oddly there seems to be a kind of respect engendered by this, as if the sender was forced to send it against his will and is relieved when you refuse it. Go figure.) If they are getting racist emails, it's because they WANT to get racist emails. It's simply part and parcel of a town that sees its population as its cattle, to be milked, sold off or slaughtered as needed.

I'm not overly concerned with racism in today's America, but this is institutionalized racism backed by the armed might of government. There HAS to be zero tolerance for this, ever. This is not something that can be overlooked in the name of free speech or law and order. This threatens the very character of our nation, way beyond politics.

Well said.

 

[Bock]

So many gems in that report.

• "Ped Check", i.e. checking every pedestrian wandering around Ferguson.
• “gathering in a group for the purposes of committing illegal activity." = everyone in the car goes to jail tonight
• Failure to comply, they really got fast & loose with this one
• When the man then extended his identification toward the officers, at their request, the officers interpreted his hand motion as an attempted assault and took him to the ground ...the officers arrested the man on two counts of Failure to Comply and two counts of Resisting Arrest
• the "wanted" system, cant get a real warrant, just put them into "wanted" in fact, driving a vehicle with a "wanted" on it, every1 gets pulled out at gunpoint & hauled to jail
  
• an officer stopped a 20-year-old African-American man for dancing in the middle of a residential street. The officer obtained the man’s identification and ran his name for warrants. Finding none, he told the man he was free to go. The man responded with profanities. When the officer told him to watch his language and reminded him that he was not being arrested, the man continued using profanity and was arrested for Manner of Walking in Roadway
• Charging teenagers with Endangering the Welfare of a Child{i.e. themselves} in addition to resisting arrest
• FPD regards tasers as an all purpose tool & use them very liberally.
• Canine dog usage on teenagers.

A number of incidents in which force was used by the officers violated Ferguson PD guidelines. Multiple Periods of time, 2 months, of which use of force paperwork is simply missing or wasn't filled out.