Feds: Obama Broke Law with Bergdahl Swap

[Angry Irishman]

I'd support the decision of *any* President who'd do the same thing, regardless of Party.

All American soldiers deserve that, particularly any held for years under primitive conditions & perilous circumstances. If the CinC agrees to an exchange that brings such Americans home, I'm not arrogant enough to second guess it or entertain fools who do.

I'm also smart enough to see who is and why. I see it as shamelessly partisan & astoundingly chickenshit. I salute the few conservatives of conscience who haven't joined this scurrilous attack.

That's my position.

And yours is what, exactly?

My position is it's Christmas and I'm not debating shit tonight. He'll likely get a court martial and I suppose we'll all have to wait on that outcome. Let's just say I couldn't be impartial as a military member of his jury. In fact, I expect finding good jury members is going to be rough as they will all be soldiers. His alleged desertion happened at a time of war which will drive the type of court martial should that option be pursued.

 

[Moonbeam]

You are apparently BLINDED by partisanship....read your own post. Dude, I hope you don't stay up at night over this shit, it's not healthy. Merry Christmas.

You have no idea how terrifying it is for liberals who don't fully realize you have a brain defect to think instead there are people like you that could only be as blind as you are if they were profoundly feeble minded. You look for all the world to be terrifyingly stupid. The thought there are millions just like you, as apparently equally brain dead, is just too much for some people's constitutions. Fortunately for you some of us realize that you only appear to be an imbecile, that you unconsciously select stupidity rather than feel how bad you feel. Such a waste too, because there's nothing really wrong with you. By the way, if any of this pisses you off it's only because it's true.

 

[Angry Irishman]

You have no idea how terrifying it is for liberals who don't fully realize you have a brain defect to think instead there are people like you that could only be as blind as you are if they were profoundly feeble minded. You look for all the world to be terrifyingly stupid. The thought there are millions just like you, as apparently equally brain dead, is just too much for some people's constitutions. Fortunately for you some of us realize that you only appear to be an imbecile, that you unconsciously select stupidity rather than feel how bad you feel. Such a waste too, because there's nothing really wrong with you. By the way, if any of this pisses you off it's only because it's true.

Merry Christmas....go seek attention elsewhere. Hopefully you'll wake up one day and realize you may indeed have a brain defect.

 

[Moonbeam]

Merry Christmas....go seek attention elsewhere. Hopefully you'll wake up one day and realize you may indeed have a brain defect.

Oh I already did. That's why I tell you the truth instead of the lies you are used to. And it's the season of giving. What you call a need for attention I would call turning my back of the lost, not to mention innocent people. The kind of insanity you have is dangerous for yourself and the country. That's naughty and not nice. If we can get that horrible blockage out of your chimney Santa will surely change his mind. And don't throw out the present I gave you. What you feel and don't know you feel, what you hide from, isn't true anyway. You are OK and always have been. You just don't know it. That's the best news you will ever get. I wish you could know it. Curses on that lousy defect.

 

[Matt1970]

Oh I already did. That's why I tell you the truth instead of the lies you are used to. And it's the season of giving. What you call a need for attention I would call turning my back of the lost, not to mention innocent people. The kind of insanity you have is dangerous for yourself and the country. That's naughty and not nice. If we can get that horrible blockage out of your chimney Santa will surely change his mind. And don't throw out the present I gave you. What you feel and don't know you feel, what you hide from, isn't true anyway. You are OK and always have been. You just don't know it. That's the best news you will ever get. I wish you could know it. Curses on that lousy defect.

So to summarize he is insane and a danger to himself and others, but he is OK, and as always, he just doesn't know it.

 

[Moonbeam]

So to summarize he is insane and a danger to himself and others, but he is OK, and as always, he just doesn't know it.

Geez, you CBD folk always focus on the negatives. Insanity is feeling there is something wrong with you when there's not and not knowing that's exactly what you do feel even though you aren't consciously aware of it. This is being in a prison and not seeing the bars. You are engaged in the endless struggle to prevent yourself from feeling what is true about what you feel but isn't factually grounded. All children are shamed and humiliated to make them conform when there was actually nothing wrong with them. We were raised by people who hate themselves and couldn't take God presence in their children. Living children make adults feel like their dead, which they mostly are. So we put them down, give them our disease, and put them in their place. It's nobody's fault. It's the mechanical playing out of the disease. You would know this if you could feel what you feel, if you could relive the pain the last thing on earth we want to do. To recognize this condition brings a change in perspective and a humility to faith in the ego. It also brings courage when one knows that ones deepest feelings of self contempt aren't actually factual. Realization that one isn't guilty of anything leads to the lessening of the power we give to guilt and shame and the need to guilt and shame others. To evolve as a person means going down through hell where we hid the door to heaven, as it were. The hero has dragons to slay. You need a sword and a mirror to cut off Medusa's head.

 

[Jhhnn]

My position is it's Christmas and I'm not debating shit tonight. He'll likely get a court martial and I suppose we'll all have to wait on that outcome. Let's just say I couldn't be impartial as a military member of his jury. In fact, I expect finding good jury members is going to be rough as they will all be soldiers. His alleged desertion happened at a time of war which will drive the type of court martial should that option be pursued.

Your position is that you intend to dodge the larger question of the prisoner exchange, the subject of this thread, by using allegations against Bergdahl to put the whole episode into a false light.

You're victim to a psychological trick intended to keep you hatin' on Obama. It works because it appeals to your better qualities in a craven & manipulative way. It works because of what you want to believe about yourself & the world around you. It works because you internalize belief very quickly, examine it only after the fact if at all.

You turn away from that reflexively, push it right out of your mind. Hell, I just quoted you doing it.

I laid out what I believe & why. You apparently take issue with it, but I don't think you really know why.

It's a good time of year to think about things like that, to reflect, and to call upon our better natures when we do.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Your position is that you intend to dodge the larger question of the prisoner exchange, the subject of this thread, by using allegations against Bergdahl to put the whole episode into a false light.

You're victim to a psychological trick intended to keep you hatin' on Obama. It works because it appeals to your better qualities in a craven & manipulative way. It works because of what you want to believe about yourself & the world around you. It works because you internalize belief very quickly, examine it only after the fact if at all.

You turn away from that reflexively, push it right out of your mind. Hell, I just quoted you doing it.

I laid out what I believe & why. You apparently take issue with it, but I don't think you really know why.

It's a good time of year to think about things like that, to reflect, and to call upon our better natures when we do.

No, actually, my position is not to partake in your never ending partisan agenda/dialogue which you apparently thrive on.

My first comment was to gather if you had ever served in the armed forces. Your colorful response indicated that you likely had not. If you had you may have a different outlook on the situation and understand how truly terrible it is for a soldier to walk off his post potentially leaving his fellow serviceman in danger. You see, that's real life and not solely D vs R as your mind works.

My second comment to you (in this post) was to point out the hypocrisy of your remark about partisan attacks which I might say remains very valid still. I further commented on what is likely to happen to Berdahl in regard to the potential court martial and the likely fact that he may have a hard time getting a fair military trial as all the soldiers on the jury (see first real life example) will be biased. They just will.

In regards to my hate'n on Obama and the exchange. Nope, I don't agree that it was a prudent or wise decision. You'll disagree but so be it. I would have the same opinion if it was George Washington. Finally, enough with the psycho babble about the world around me and my perceptions. There is already a Moonbeam nut job on here that has taken that position. You call me out as hating? Good Lord, stop telling others to reflect and take your own advice.

Merry Christmas.

 

[Jhhnn]

No, actually, my position is not to partake in your never ending partisan agenda/dialogue which you apparently thrive on.

My first comment was to gather if you had ever served in the armed forces. Your colorful response indicated that you likely had not. If you had you may have a different outlook on the situation and understand how truly terrible it is for a soldier to walk off his post potentially leaving his fellow serviceman in danger. You see, that's real life and not solely D vs R as your mind works.

My second comment to you (in this post) was to point out the hypocrisy of your remark about partisan attacks which I might say remains very valid still. I further commented on what is likely to happen to Berdahl in regard to the potential court martial and the likely fact that he may have a hard time getting a fair military trial as all the soldiers on the jury (see first real life example) will be biased. They just will.

In regards to my hate'n on Obama and the exchange. Nope, I don't agree that it was a prudent or wise decision. You'll disagree but so be it. I would have the same opinion if it was George Washington. Finally, enough with the psycho babble about the world around me and my perceptions. There is already a Moonbeam nut job on here that has taken that position. You call me out as hating? Good Lord, stop telling others to reflect and take your own advice.

Merry Christmas.

Your first two paragraphs are immaterial to the central issue of the prisoner exchange, but you keep using that line of reasoning to shape your opinion of it. Whether Bergdahl is a fuckup or not doesn't change the Army's responsibilities at all. He deserves the same considerations as any soldier.

Will you argue against that directly?

You then go on to arrogantly assume that you're in a better position to assess the value of the exchange as if you somehow have the same information & considerations as the CinC, not to mention better judgment.

I suspect that has more to do with the identity of the CinC than the decision itself, part of the ongoing effort to tear him down for any excuse that might come up.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Your first two paragraphs are immaterial to the central issue of the prisoner exchange, but you keep using that line of reasoning to shape your opinion of it. Whether Bergdahl is a fuckup or not doesn't change the Army's responsibilities at all. He deserves the same considerations as any soldier.

Will you argue against that directly?

You then go on to arrogantly assume that you're in a better position to assess the value of the exchange as if you somehow have the same information & considerations as the CinC, not to mention better judgment.

I suspect that has more to do with the identity of the CinC than the decision itself, part of the ongoing effort to tear him down for any excuse that might come up.

You have a lot of suspicions, can spin things however you wish and declare paragraphs as immaterial...it doesn't change anything. You see, I'm not here to argue everything under the sun. All you want and desire so badly is another left vs right argument hence the hypocracy of you claiming others are partisan motivated.

Other soldiers from his unit, hell, his platoon, testified that he walked off his post and apparently he did it more than once. Their word is good enough for me because I realistically (not arrogantly, not as the CINC, but as a serviceman who's had that experience) see their point and anger for such a cowardly and shitty act. That said, don't fucking preach to me about not being as qualified as our CINC which is laughable if you only knew how much all levels of our military despise how unqualified he actually is. If you've never stood a post, been shelled, been in a fire fight then you have no idea the anxiety and stress there is in that environment...you wouldn't understand. If he did indeed walk off his post then good riddance and not one American life should be put in danger to retrieve him..although they did and some will not see their families as a result. Releasing five of the worst enemies to the US does put people in danger and it was a poor decision....regardless of who made it. Oh yea, and a decision made while skirting around Congress. Remember this, he wasn't drafted, he wasn't forced to join the Army....he knew what he was doing and the danger posed to himself and others by leaving his post. We'll see what the court martial brings....who knows. Unfortunately, this is now an Army issue that has become fully political....just how you'd like it. Obama sucks, I have no qualms with sharing my opinion about that. It's not because he's a Democrat or Republican, it's because he makes horrible decisions on a consistent basis and really has little to no leadership ability. I suspect that you are motivated for the opposite of what you accuse me of is the unquestioning desire to glorify the man.

I'm done having this discussion with you.....move on.

 

[ivwshane]

Your first two paragraphs are immaterial to the central issue of the prisoner exchange, but you keep using that line of reasoning to shape your opinion of it. Whether Bergdahl is a fuckup or not doesn't change the Army's responsibilities at all. He deserves the same considerations as any soldier.

Will you argue against that directly?

You then go on to arrogantly assume that you're in a better position to assess the value of the exchange as if you somehow have the same information & considerations as the CinC, not to mention better judgment.

I suspect that has more to do with the identity of the CinC than the decision itself, part of the ongoing effort to tear him down for any excuse that might come up.

It kind of makes you wonder just what sort of principals a military man has whose creed is essentially the defending of the American people, their country, the American values of freedom and peace, and leaving no man behind, and he can so easily ignore them when an American does something he doesn't agree with.


In my opinion he has no principals. Leaving a soldier behind to the "wolves" instead of facing justice, well, kind of seems unamerican.

 

[MongGrel]

So to summarize he is insane and a danger to himself and others, but he is OK, and as always, he just doesn't know it.

A bit like you, actually.

 

[ivwshane]

Releasing five of the worst enemies to the US?

Lol! I hope Santa brings you a paragraph and a brain this Christmas!

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/31/us/bergdahl-transferred-guantanamo-detainees/

Calling these guys the worst enemies to the US is a stretch by any imagination.

 

[Angry Irishman]

It kind of makes you wonder just what sort of principals a military man has whose creed is essentially the defending of the American people, their country, the American values of freedom and peace, and leaving no man behind, and he can so easily ignore them when an American does something he doesn't agree with.


In my opinion he has no principals. Leaving a soldier behind to the "wolves" instead of facing justice, well, kind of seems unamerican.

That all sounds so noble on an internet forum; sometime life is just a bit more complicated...especially in a wonderful place like Afghanistan. I tell you what. Line up every soldier in his unit and ask them the same question and present them with that statement....it won't be pretty. It's not a debate whether he left his post....the Army has confirmed that. Honor means something to a soldier. It's still a word that drives actions and consequences. If you think a deserter who purposely put others in danger is equal to those he was assigned with then you have a very twisted definition of honor. If you think retrieving this "soldier" knowing that he deserted involves endangering the lives (and potentially lives were lost) of others while releasing five enemies who you'll fight again is prudent then I don't know what to tell you. Go enlist and put yourself in that danger to rescue a deserter. But wait, it' s only OK if someone else does that for you or you can watch the outcome on the news. You've been watching too many movies and in fact dishonor those who are serving with that crazy line of thinking. Unless you've lived it don't you dare call in to question my being American or service.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Releasing five of the worst enemies to the US?

Lol! I hope Santa brings you a paragraph and a brain this Christmas!

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/31/us/bergdahl-transferred-guantanamo-detainees/

Calling these guys the worst enemies to the US is a stretch by any imagination.

Who gives a shit....do you think they wouldn't slit your throat in a heartbeat? An enemy is an enemy and these were all dangerous. Do you think they are boyscouts? You're missing the point entirely. I don't really understand what world you live in sometimes.

 

[ivwshane]

Who gives a shit....do you think they wouldn't slit your throat in a heartbeat? An enemy is an enemy and these were all dangerous. Do you think they are boyscouts? You're missing the point entirely. I don't really understand what world you live in sometimes.

No they wouldn't slit my throat, most of them were killing other Muslims and that's kind of the point. They aren't Americas worst enemies.

 

[ivwshane]

That all sounds so noble on an internet forum; sometime life is just a bit more complicated...especially in a wonderful place like Afghanistan. I tell you what. Line up every soldier in his unit and ask them the same question and present them with that statement....it won't be pretty. It's not a debate whether he left his post....the Army has confirmed that. Honor means something to a soldier. It's still a word that drives actions and consequences. If you think a deserter who purposely put others in danger is equal to those he was assigned with then you have a very twisted definition of honor. If you think retrieving this "soldier" knowing that he deserted involves endangering the lives (and potentially lives were lost) of others while releasing five enemies who you'll fight again is prudent then I don't know what to tell you. Go enlist and put yourself in that danger to rescue a deserter. But wait, it' s only OK if someone else does that for you or you can watch the outcome on the news. You've been watching too many movies and in fact dishonor those who are serving with that crazy line of thinking. Unless you've lived it don't you dare call in to question my being American or service.

Like I said, you don't really have principals if you can cast them aside when you feel the need.

Thanks for proving my point😉

Merry Christmas!

 

[Angry Irishman]

Like I said, you don't really have principals if you can cast them aside when you feel the need.

Thanks for proving my point😉

Merry Christmas!

My pleasure....really anytime. I'll sleep just fine tonight with this opinion coming from you having observed your principals and character on this forum..😉 I'll end with this, just for your thought, as I don't really want to interact anymore. How many good soldiers would be an acceptable amount to be maimed or die in an effort to retrieve a deserter? Think about that. Again, we'll see what the court martial brings. There may be no trial at all, we'll see.

 

[Angry Irishman]

No they wouldn't slit my throat, most of them were killing other Muslims and that's kind of the point. They aren't Americas worst enemies.

Yup, I'm sure none have ever killed Americans or tried.....I'm sure that's the case.

 

[Jaskalas]

Can you offer a practical alternative of what the executive branch can do in the case of where he needs to act? I honestly can't think of one.

I suggest the executive act in good faith as elected by the people to do so on their behalf.

The other two branches of government may be determine after the fact, if the executive broke the law and must correct their actions. Failure to correct should allow Congress, empowered by the Judiciary, to head up persecuting members of the executive below the President.

Forcing the President to appoint new cabinet members would both punish criminality and throw disarray into the executive, all the while allowing the Senate to grill new appointees on matters of importance before a vote. As a bonus, the American people would get to know exactly where their President, his cabinet, our Congressman, our Judges, and our Senators all stand on particular issues being fought over. Where everyone stands would be on public record during these proceedings.

 

[ivwshane]

Yup, I'm sure none have ever killed Americans or tried.....I'm sure that's the case.

Lol! Are you sure of it or is that what your gut tells you?


Quick! Deflect and don't answer the question and tell everyone how you are done interacting with people on this board!

 

[ivwshane]

My pleasure....really anytime. I'll sleep just fine tonight with this opinion coming from you having observed your principals and character on this forum..😉 I'll end with this, just for your thought, as I don't really want to interact anymore. How many good soldiers would be an acceptable amount to be maimed or die in an effort to retrieve a deserter? Think about that. Again, we'll see what the court martial brings. There may be no trial at all, we'll see.

It must feel good for you to know that there are other unprincipled soldiers just like you!

 

[ivwshane]

I suggest the executive act in good faith as elected by the people to do so on their behalf.

The other two branches of government may be determine after the fact, if the executive broke the law and must correct their actions. Failure to correct should allow Congress, empowered by the Judiciary, to head up persecuting members of the executive below the President.

Forcing the President to appoint new cabinet members would both punish criminality and throw disarray into the executive, all the while allowing the Senate to grill new appointees on matters of importance before a vote. As a bonus, the American people would get to know exactly where their President, his cabinet, our Congressman, our Judges, and our Senators all stand on particular issues being fought over. Where everyone stands would be on public record during these proceedings.

Let me guess, you get to determine what "good faith" is?

 

[Angry Irishman]

It must feel good for you to know that there are other unprincipled soldiers just like you!

You're just a soldier for another kind of partisan army. Your army gets real soldiers killed for the wrong reasons as long as it's someone else performing the job. Your ignorant ideals, their blood. Apparently you're ok with that.

 

[ivwshane]

You're just a soldier for another kind of partisan army. Your army gets real soldiers killed for the wrong reasons as long as it's someone else performing the job. Apparently you're ok with that.

Lol! Whatever you gotta tell yourself to validate your existence😉