Feds: Obama Broke Law with Bergdahl Swap

[Angry Irishman]

Lol! Whatever you gotta tell yourself to validate your existence

I don't have to validate to myself or certainly you anything. I have served and experienced this difficult situation that you'll never understand. Apparently soldiers dying is funny to you as well with your usual lol response. Oh well, it's just another news story...right? Just some other topic to debate on a forum for your entertainment. Since you elected to respond with nothing of value now and before, I see you never answered the question posed to you. How many deaths are acceptable to you? I'll venture to say you won't have an answer. As usual, if someone dares disagree with you the insults start to fly. You've said nothing in the last few posts except insults. This time calling to question my service while throwing in accusations of being unAmerican. Really uncalled for....

 

[ivwshane]

I don't have to validate to myself or certainly you anything. I have served and experienced this difficult situation that you'll never understand. Apparently soldiers dying is funny to you as well with your usual lol response. Oh well, it's just another news story...right? Just some other topic to debate on a forum for your entertainment. Since you elected to respond with nothing of value now and before, I see you never answered the question posed to you. How many deaths are acceptable to you? I'll venture to say you won't have an answer. As usual, if someone dares disagree with you the insults start to fly. You've said nothing in the last few posts except insults. This time calling to question my service while throwing in accusations of being unAmerican. Really uncalled for....

What's uncalled for is you making up crap about what other people's position is. Keep at it sport

 

[Angry Irishman]

What's uncalled for is you making up crap about what other people's position is. Keep at it sport

What are you even talking about? What people, the soldiers I associate with? I get their sentiments first hand. So sorry those positions differ from yours.

And as expected no answer...don't bother. Keep watching/worshiping the news and listening to those speeches...sporty.

 

[ivwshane]

Apparently your old age keeps you from following along on a message board.

Congrats on re enforcing another one of my points

 

[Victorian Gray]

I don't have to validate to myself or certainly you anything. I have served and experienced this difficult situation that you'll never understand. Apparently soldiers dying is funny to you as well with your usual lol response. Oh well, it's just another news story...right? Just some other topic to debate on a forum for your entertainment. Since you elected to respond with nothing of value now and before, I see you never answered the question posed to you. How many deaths are acceptable to you? I'll venture to say you won't have an answer. As usual, if someone dares disagree with you the insults start to fly. You've said nothing in the last few posts except insults. This time calling to question my service while throwing in accusations of being unAmerican. Really uncalled for....

I find it rather odd that an ex-military guy would just blindly condemn someone presently serving without actually knowing what happened.

Y'know, the bottom line is that you (or anyone else here) don't have a clue as to what really happened to the guy. All you know in the way of 'facts' is pretty much all speculation and innuendo from the press and others.

Seems to me that before condemning him the way that you (and a lot of other folks) have been doing it might be worth waiting to find out what *real* information gets released by the US Army as they try and determine what actually happened.

Or not...

 

[Angry Irishman]

Apparently your old age keeps you from following along on a message board.

Congrats on re enforcing another one of my points

And you continue to re enforce your usual antics. Is that the best response you have is to call me old? I'm old enough to see through your BS.

Apparently you are just going to be childish now and not answer any questions or engage in any discussion if that's what it's called....is that one of your points? You're making things up now and avoiding. I'm right and you're wrong is the only point you've poorly expressed tonight. It's apparent the level of maturity you're able to muster up and it's really pretty pathetic.

 

[ivwshane]

I find it rather odd that an ex-military guy would just blindly condemn someone presently serving without actually knowing what happened.

Y'know, the bottom line is that you (or anyone else here) don't have a clue as to what really happened to the guy. All you know in the way of 'facts' is pretty much all speculation and innuendo from the press and others.

Seems to me that before condemning him the way that you (and a lot of other folks) have been doing it might be worth waiting to find out what *real* information gets released by the US Army as they try and determine what actually happened.

Or not...

Nope! They would rather have him be stuck over there. They don't need the truth nor do they think he is entitled to any due process. Their vision of the "American way" is apparently majority rules, as in a bunch of people said he's a piece of shit, therefore it's truth. Again, you don't have principals if you can so easily cast them aside.

 

[Angry Irishman]

I find it rather odd that an ex-military guy would just blindly condemn someone presently serving without actually knowing what happened.

Y'know, the bottom line is that you (or anyone else here) don't have a clue as to what really happened to the guy. All you know in the way of 'facts' is pretty much all speculation and innuendo from the press and others.

Seems to me that before condemning him the way that you (and a lot of other folks) have been doing it might be worth waiting to find out what *real* information gets released by the US Army as they try and determine what actually happened.

Or not...

We'll see what the court martial produces. It's not as much my condemnation as the testimony of those soldiers he served with that matters and sway my opinion. They were pretty clear about him picking up and leaving his post...desertion in military terms. Hell he left a note stating his intentions. I'm very interested to see the outcome of this.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Nope! They would rather have him be stuck over there. They don't need the truth nor do they think he is entitled to any due process. Their vision of the "American way" is apparently majority rules, as in a bunch of people said he's a piece of shit, therefore it's truth. Again, you don't have principals if you can so easily cast them aside.

These bunch of people happen to be the very ones who served with him...it's not too difficult. It's not some reporter or story. To be clear living with people in the field isn't like working some job in the states. There is a relationship that exists where nothing is secret, nothing is hidden away. The environment and nature of the mission doesn't allow for that. I have no reason to doubt his fellow soldiers are wrong. Now that we have him despite the distinct possibility soldiers were harmed searching for him he does indeed need to go to a court martial under the UCMJ.

 

[ivwshane]

We'll see what the court martial produces. It's not as much my condemnation as the testimony of those soldiers he served with that matters and sway my opinion. I'm very interested to see the outcome of this.

Kind of hard to have a court martial when you aren't even willing to bring the guy home, isn't it?

Other soldiers from his unit, hell, his platoon, testified that he walked off his post and apparently he did it more than once. Their word is good enough for me because I realistically (not arrogantly, not as the CINC, but as a serviceman who's had that experience) see their point and anger for such a cowardly and shitty act. That said, don't fucking preach to me about not being as qualified as our CINC which is laughable if you only knew how much all levels of our military despise how unqualified he actually is. If you've never stood a post, been shelled, been in a fire fight then you have no idea the anxiety and stress there is in that environment...you wouldn't understand. If he did indeed walk off his post then good riddance and not one American life should be put in danger to retrieve him

 

[Victorian Gray]

We'll see what the court martial produces. It's not as much my condemnation as the testimony of those soldiers he served with that matters and sway my opinion. I'm very interested to see the outcome of this.

So, while waiting for a court martial to determine the truth of the matter, you will just blindly accept what *some* of the troops that he served with are saying without actually knowing them, him or any, you know, actual facts?

 

[Angry Irishman]

Kind of hard to have a court martial when you aren't even willing to bring the guy home, isn't it?

You are unreal....he's back no matter the method. Since he's back he needs to go to trial. You're really grasping for something here.

 

[MongGrel]

He basically should be hung and get it over with, but with live in a PC world.

A few decades ago it would not even have been a question and not a topic even.

He is well beyond what others have done in the past.

I doubt from what I've seen there is really an issue, other than the end one.

 

[Victorian Gray]

He basically should be hung and get it over with, but with live in a PC world.

A few decades ago it would not even have been a question and not a topic even.

He is well beyond what others have done in the past.

Ah, another one who doesn't seem to think that finding out the actual truth of the matter is even worth considering.

I certainly hope that you've never served (or ever will) on a jury.

 

[ivwshane]

You are unreal....he's back no matter the method. Since he's back he needs to go to trial. You're really grasping for something here.

Thank god our government ignored people like you, otherwise he wouldn't be able to face justice.


Is this a hard topic for you to grasp? Do I need to flow chart it for you? Perhaps if I communicate with you using pictures, you will get the point. I doubt it though, you've pretty much proven you are a 'told what to think' and 'follow along' kind of guy. But I only say that because of what you post so don't let me put words in your mouth, feel free to answer the question that was put to you originally.

Your first two paragraphs are immaterial to the central issue of the prisoner exchange, but you keep using that line of reasoning to shape your opinion of it. Whether Bergdahl is a fuckup or not doesn't change the Army's responsibilities at all. He deserves the same considerations as any soldier.

Will you argue against that directly?

You then go on to arrogantly assume that you're in a better position to assess the value of the exchange as if you somehow have the same information & considerations as the CinC, not to mention better judgment.

I suspect that has more to do with the identity of the CinC than the decision itself, part of the ongoing effort to tear him down for any excuse that might come up.

 

[Angry Irishman]

So, while waiting for a court martial to determine the truth of the matter, you will just blindly accept what *some* of the troops that he served with without actually knowing them, him or any, you know, actual facts?

If someone leaves a suicide note and they jump off of a bridge did they not commit suicide? He left a note critical of the army, left his weapon and snuck off the post. That is the definition of desertion.

Why? I don't know. I can think of no good reason for desertion. He may very well be off his rocker in which case the army would share at least some of the blame for allowing him to be deployed. Again, I don't know. Enough of his fellow soldiers have testified to his actions and the army felt the need to conduct a special investigation, again, we'll have to see what comes out in the trial. This situation is also very politically charged as well as the President was largely criticized for the trade and timing. That situation immediately sets off the D & R wars for/against Obama's actions.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Thank god our government ignored people like you, otherwise he wouldn't be able to face justice.


Is this a hard topic for you to grasp? Do I need to flow chart it for you? Perhaps if I communicate with you using pictures, you will get the point. I doubt it though, you've pretty much proven you are a 'told what to think' and 'follow along' kind of guy. But I only say that because of what you post so don't let me put words in your mouth, feel free to answer the question that was put to you originally.

You must mean "ignoring people like me" you mean our president (our government) skirting around Congress and bordering on what was illegal.

I've answered the question already and you didn't ask it. It was not worth the trade of dangerous prisoners and the lives of additional soldiers for one deserter in my opinion. Are you going to tell me he didn't leave his post without his weapon, willingly? Do you think the army has retrieved all of the deserters who have fallen into the enemies hands purposely or negligently? For that matter the army hasn't retrieved all of the soldiers captured while performing in combat roles. Again, what do you think is an acceptable amount of casualties to retrieve a deserter?

You can hold your insults and sarcasm as I'm growing weary of your matter of fact I'm right you're wrong rhetoric. Either have a discussion or disengage. I am too old for that shit.

 

[Angry Irishman]

He basically should be hung and get it over with, but with live in a PC world.

A few decades ago it would not even have been a question and not a topic even.

He is well beyond what others have done in the past.

I doubt from what I've seen there is really an issue, other than the end one.

Well I won't go that far with hanging without trial but if it was decreed as an outcome of that proceeding....so be it. I cannot make a few on here understand how heinous an action it is to leave fellow serviceman in harms way by deserting. You are correct, it is a PC world.

 

[Victorian Gray]

If someone leaves a suicide note and they jump off of a bridge did they not commit suicide? He left a note critical of the army, left his weapon and snuck off the post. That is the definition of desertion.

Why? I don't know. I can think of no good reason for desertion. He may very well be off his rocker in which case the army would share at least some of the blame for allowing him to be deployed. Again, I don't know. Enough of his fellow soldiers have testified to his actions and the army felt the need to conduct a special investigation, again, we'll have to see what comes out in the trial. This situation is also very politically charged as well as the President was largely criticized for the trade and timing. That situation immediately sets off the D & R wars for/against Obama's actions.

The note has never, far as I can find, been confirmed by the military. That information appears to have come from an unnamed, former military officer. The weapon and 'sneaking'? Who the fuck knows, certainly neither of us.

As for his mental state, again, who knows? That's why at least some of us are waiting to find out what actually happened from an actual, official source like, I dunno, the US army command?

 

[Angry Irishman]

Ah, another one who doesn't seem to think that finding out the actual truth of the matter is even worth considering.

I certainly hope that you've never served (or ever will) on a jury.

I said earlier that a jury for a court martial will be hard to fill. Soldiers (who will make up the jury under the UCMJ) tend to think poorly of fellow soldiers who abandon their posts.

This isn't like the coworker who steals lunches out of the break room. This involves the purposeful endangerment of fellow soldiers because of desertion and during the post desertion search.

All of that said, I have served as a military juror albeit for not something as serious as desertion. The experience was overall very positive and I think the military justice process was fair/objective. In fact servicemen have some advantages over civilians when it comes to trial.

 

[Angry Irishman]

The note has never, far as I can find, been confirmed by the military. That information appears to have come from an unnamed, former military officer. The weapon and 'sneaking'? Who the fuck knows, certainly neither of us.

As for his mental state, again, who knows? That's why at least some of us are waiting to find out what actually happened from an actual, official source like, I dunno, the US army command?

Sadly, we the public, may never see the specifics of what is presented in a military court. For one thing it may make politicians look bad and military courts are very similar but have unique processes/procedures that may restrict public access.

Bottom line though....he deserted....period. What other definition is there?

 

[Victorian Gray]

Well I won't go that far with hanging without trial but if it was decreed as an outcome of that proceeding....so be it. I cannot make a few on here understand how heinous an action it is to leave fellow serviceman in harms way by deserting. You are correct, it is a PC world.

And I, personally, find it interesting that, while you are giving lip service to the concepts of a fair investigation, you continually express yourself as if you know that he is guilty. And "PC" has nothing to do with it. I thought that justice was one of the ideals that Americans are supposed to believe in. Apparently, for some of you, that's not the case.

If you have that poor an understanding of the ideals that your country claims to represent I have to ask, unless you are old enough to have been drafted, why did you serve?

 

[Victorian Gray]

I said earlier that a jury for a court martial will be hard to fill. Soldiers (who will make up the jury under the UCMJ) tend to think poorly of fellow soldiers who abandon their posts.

This isn't like the coworker who steals lunches out of the break room. This involves the purposeful endangerment of fellow soldiers because of desertion and during the post desertion search.

So, again, you don't know what happened but he's a deserter anyway.

Ok, I don't have the energy to spare. Merry Xmas.

 

[Angry Irishman]

So, again, you don't know what happened but he's a deserter anyway.

Ok, I don't have the energy to spare. Merry Xmas.

Listen, he wasn't forced off the base at gunpoint. Numerous fellow soldiers have confirmed he left the base without his weapon. The army has confirmed he left the post. What other possibility exists?

Anyway, thank you for a civilized discussion. We don't have to agree but can discuss. Merry post Christmas now and have a good New Year.

 

[ivwshane]

And I, personally, find it interesting that, while you are giving lip service to the concepts of a fair investigation, you continually express yourself as if you know that he is guilty. And "PC" has nothing to do with it. I thought that justice was one of the ideals that Americans are supposed to believe in. Apparently, for some of you, that's not the case.

If you have that poor an understanding of the ideals that your country claims to represent I have to ask, unless you are old enough to have been drafted, why did you serve?

Obviously for the life long benefits it certainly wasn't based on American principals.