Fed a mouse to my spider! **VIDEO**

[OutHouse]

the flames in here are better than the vid...

 

[Legendary]

Originally posted by: BigJ
0roo0roo, an honest question.

Why is it alright for a bunch of crickets to suffer, but not alright for one mouse to suffer? Are you saying the crickets suffer any less then the mouse? Cause I'd have to say being ripped apart in the jaws of a spider probably sucks as much as being killed by the venom of one.

I just want to know why you identity it as "less suffering" for a bunch of crickets to die compared to one mouse.

I'm not an etymologist, but I think if a spider rips a cricket in half, BAM it's dead.
Meanwhile the mouse suffers for some time (> instantaneous death, as you can see in the video) as its insides are liquified by spider venom.
Thus I think the argument is it's better to let 8 crickets die instananeously than to have 1 mouse suffer.
Kind of like the cruel and unusual punishment clause, but for animals.

Personally I think it sucks that the mouse had to die so slowly, but then I consider what must've happened to Boba Fett inside the stomach of that thing on Tatooine... But seriously, there are worst things out there than a barely sentient mouse being innardly liquified (which, from an outsider's perspective, is sorta cool)

 

[0roo0roo]

yup. the cricket just gets annihliated. the baby mouse just gets mauled

as for abortion, its an entirely different thing. neither a baby mouse of a spider uses your body for its life support or growth. and the rights of a scentient woman are no where in the equation.

and durokshark wouldn't be able to say anything about it anyways, since he'd be a hipocrite being a meat eater and all atleast by his logic.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
yup. the cricket just gets annihliated. the baby mouse just gets mauled

as for abortion, its an entirely different thing. neither a baby mouse of a spider uses your body for its life support or growth. and the rights of a scentient woman are no where in the equation.

and durokshark wouldn't be able to say anything about it anyways, since he'd be a hipocrite being a meat eater and all atleast by his logic.

But how long is it until the mouse actually dies? I'm kinda curious, but couldn't find anything solid using google.

 

[0roo0roo]

not sure, but its a reasonable assumption that a higher form of life with a more complex nerveous system has a greater ability to suffer. and then theres size and speed. if a thousand dentist patients added together have the pain of a man dying of a gunshot to the stomach, you can't really say its equivalent.

 

[skyking]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
yup. the cricket just gets annihliated. the baby mouse just gets mauled

as for abortion, its an entirely different thing. neither a baby mouse of a spider uses your body for its life support or growth. and the rights of a scentient woman are no where in the equation.

and durokshark wouldn't be able to say anything about it anyways, since he'd be a hipocrite being a meat eater and all atleast by his logic.

But how long is it until the mouse actually dies? I'm kinda curious, but couldn't find anything solid using google.

The video was 1 minute long. the OP said the mouse quit moving after 2 minutes.

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

logic? you're the one who thinks that if one eats meat one has no right to stand against cruel treatment of animals? you call that logic? by that logic i could burn a puppy to death and if you objected and ate meat you could say nothing. and so with the same logic, a stance supporting the killing of human beings in war(ww2) nullifies your ability to stand against the holocaust(also the killing of human beings). does your stand make sense? is there logic? of course not. its also very familiar. oh yes, it the same bullsh*t logic suicide bombers and terrorists use to kill civilians. so stfu indeed!

You waited 3 posts to actually reply to that?!? :roll: OK, this time I'll bold my question to you, maybe you will see them before 3 exchanges...

OK. First, you have no clue how I feel on animal cruelty, because, well, you didn't really ask. If anything from my posts about the puppy you could safely assume I'm against unnecessary harm to things we eat. I did say "If you really want to eat a dog, then sure, go ahead. Lots of Koreans do... ...If you want to beat a dog to death for fun, that's totaly different.". That's what I have stated so far. Working from that you can see I'm against animal cruelty for no purpose. No where did I say it's OK to abuse them, as long as you eat them. I'm pretty sure the spider didn't burn the mouse and then eat it. Perhaps you can show me where I inferred it's ok to burn a puppy as long as you eat it?

Continuing through your posts, your extension of my logic (ww2) is invalid, again I didn't justify the first assumption you made about my beliefs w/o asking first. So your conclusion is also invalid. I'll leave the silly STFUs off since you may want to have intelligent discourse, up until now I wasn't sure...

I think I see your POV now. You think the method that was used to kill and eat the mousewas cruel. Is this correct?

 

[Slappy00]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
yup. the cricket just gets annihliated. the baby mouse just gets mauled

as for abortion, its an entirely different thing. neither a baby mouse of a spider uses your body for its life support or growth. and the rights of a scentient woman are no where in the equation.

and durokshark wouldn't be able to say anything about it anyways, since he'd be a hipocrite being a meat eater and all atleast by his logic.

But how long is it until the mouse actually dies? I'm kinda curious, but couldn't find anything solid using google.

i would think that the venom would be neurotoxic, and the mouse would die of asphyxiation before being consumed, as this would be better for the spider than a mouse that is trashing around with claws and teeth. This is of course assuming that the mouse is natural prey to this particular spider, or the venom might just be protolytic, and from looking at the vidoe i see now that its probably not neurotoxic, as the neurotoxic variety woudl have worked in the mouse in under 15secs (IMO).

 

[RaiderJ]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
yup. the cricket just gets annihliated. the baby mouse just gets mauled

as for abortion, its an entirely different thing. neither a baby mouse of a spider uses your body for its life support or growth. and the rights of a scentient woman are no where in the equation.

and durokshark wouldn't be able to say anything about it anyways, since he'd be a hipocrite being a meat eater and all atleast by his logic.

Not true, I've seen crickets twitch their legs for a bit after the spider gets them. I think we look at the mouse as having a greater capacity to feel pain, but honestly how does anyone know? I still don't think I was being cruel feeding my spider.

Also, let not forget the biological reasons for pain (cause of suffering), to give a creature incentive for continuing its life! That's just how nature works.

Abortion as birth control is different that it being done to save the life of the mother. Done for medical reasons I'm fine with, but simply to avoid having a child I think is disgraceful. I do however agree that a women should be able to do with her body what she wants, but just like not showering, abortion is disgusting.

 

[Slappy00]

ITs getting hot in hurrr i want you to ke off all your clothes

chorus: its getting so hot i wanna take my clothes off

 

[Phoenix86]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
i didn't make an arguement for zero harm. you probably didn't bother reading my posts and only read the skewed and illogical responses. i made an arguement for limiting cruelty, avoiding it when possible. i never once said he shouldn't feed it live crickets, because it needs to eat and cannot eat humanely killed crickets. i eat farmed meat. i don't choose to beat a cow to death and stick needles in its eyes as it slowly dies just so i can eat it. theres a difference.

Whoops, missed some...

OK, I never said 0 harm, I quoted you where you said "you should do no more harm than necessary." Those are you words, not mine.

Now when I apply that to your farm food, I say you can do less harm by not eating meat at all. I know for a fact that the feeder mice are farm raised too.

You may not have killed the cow, but someone did. Every been to a slaughter house, it's ain't pretty. I'm sure the mice's death was much cleaner than a slaughter house kill...

 

[OutHouse]

i say you drop a full size rat in there and see who wins.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Citrix
i say you drop a full size rat in there and see who wins.

Rat 1
Tarantula 0

 

[RaiderJ]

Originally posted by: Slappy00

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
yup. the cricket just gets annihliated. the baby mouse just gets mauled

as for abortion, its an entirely different thing. neither a baby mouse of a spider uses your body for its life support or growth. and the rights of a scentient woman are no where in the equation.

and durokshark wouldn't be able to say anything about it anyways, since he'd be a hipocrite being a meat eater and all atleast by his logic.

But how long is it until the mouse actually dies? I'm kinda curious, but couldn't find anything solid using google.

i would think that the venom would be neurotoxic, and the mouse would die of asphyxiation before being consumed, as this would be better for the spider than a mouse that is trashing around with claws and teeth. This is of course assuming that the mouse is natural prey to this particular spider, or the venom might just be protolytic, and from looking at the vidoe i see now that its probably not neurotoxic, as the neurotoxic variety woudl have worked in the mouse in under 15secs (IMO).

Tarantula venom is very poorly understood, I imagine mostly because of it's extremely minor effects on humans (no human has ever died from a tarantula bite). However, from what I have read, rodents are particually affected by it, the assumption being that since they are both burrowing animals, they tend to have more conflicts. Tarantulas use size and strength to catch & kill their prey, and their venom is probably more geared towards defending themselves rather than for killing prey, which is different than most web-building spiders.

So, I do not think that rodents are a staple of a spider's diet, but they will eat pretty much anything they can overpower. Maybe their venom is neurotoxic, but is slow-acting? I've seen reports of people having been bit and had their arm go slightly numb over the course of a couple hours.

 

[RaiderJ]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: Citrix
i say you drop a full size rat in there and see who wins.

Rat 1
Tarantula 0

Heck a New York rat might take out the family dog!

 

[Slappy00]

Originally posted by: RaiderJ

Originally posted by: Slappy00

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
yup. the cricket just gets annihliated. the baby mouse just gets mauled

as for abortion, its an entirely different thing. neither a baby mouse of a spider uses your body for its life support or growth. and the rights of a scentient woman are no where in the equation.

and durokshark wouldn't be able to say anything about it anyways, since he'd be a hipocrite being a meat eater and all atleast by his logic.

But how long is it until the mouse actually dies? I'm kinda curious, but couldn't find anything solid using google.

i would think that the venom would be neurotoxic, and the mouse would die of asphyxiation before being consumed, as this would be better for the spider than a mouse that is trashing around with claws and teeth. This is of course assuming that the mouse is natural prey to this particular spider, or the venom might just be protolytic, and from looking at the vidoe i see now that its probably not neurotoxic, as the neurotoxic variety woudl have worked in the mouse in under 15secs (IMO).

Tarantula venom is very poorly understood, I imagine mostly because of it's extremely minor effects on humans (no human has ever died from a tarantula bite). However, from what I have read, rodents are particually affected by it, the assumption being that since they are both burrowing animals, they tend to have more conflicts. Tarantulas use size and strength to catch & kill their prey, and their venom is probably more geared towards defending themselves rather than for killing prey, which is different than most web-building spiders.

So, I do not think that rodents are a staple of a spider's diet, but they will eat pretty much anything they can overpower. Maybe their venom is neurotoxic, but is slow-acting? I've seen reports of people having been bit and had their arm go slightly numb over the course of a couple hours.

yah that might be just bcause the human body has the ablitiy to dilute the venom to an ineffective amount. Once again i woudl have to say that if a tarantula were to hunt mice (not the blind lab kind) that fight back the best approach is to have a fast-acting neurotoxin, not somethign where the mouse (and you can see this in the video ) can trash around underneath the spider's abdomen for minutes at a time. I think that tarantulas are simple creatures and they do not know if somethign is dangerious based on claws or teeth, they use size and movement as their threat indicators. If its smaller than you and it moves, you eat it, if its bigger but doesnt make any threating gestures, ignore it, if its big, and makes threating gestures bite it.

 

[kd2777]

Originally posted by: NFS4
And on second thought, what kinda of guy wears a thumb ring?

GD, nice catch!!! It truely laughed out load when I went back and saw that. It is sad I missed it the first time.

kd

 

[DurocShark]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
yup. the cricket just gets annihliated. the baby mouse just gets mauled

as for abortion, its an entirely different thing. neither a baby mouse of a spider uses your body for its life support or growth. and the rights of a scentient woman are no where in the equation.

and durokshark wouldn't be able to say anything about it anyways, since he'd be a hipocrite being a meat eater and all atleast by his logic.

I'm not the one saying feeding food to an animal is cruel. :roll:

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Wallydraigle

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: Wallydraigle

Originally posted by: ifesfor
RaiderJ, you are just a cruel human being.

Shame on you.

You know that spiders eat mice and birds and little lizards in the wild, right?

thats out of your hands though. when you make an uncessary choice that causes suffering, your responsible. no one forced him. and so he's responsible for his direct actions that result in unecessary cruelty, not something to be proud olf.

and i really wouldn't use that "it happens in the wild" arguement to justify anything. a great many cruelties occur in the wild. would allow u to justify most any kind of evi.

That's not cruel and it's not evil. That's the way a spider lives. The mouse would have eaten the spider if it had the chance. It only bothers you because the mouse is cuter than the spider. Why wouldn't you feed your spider a natural diet if you could?

I bet you're pro choice too.

the cruelty comes with the choice of the human. the spider lives any way it can. it would eat you if it could, it cares not. you on the other hand make choices for it because you chose to own such a pet. you are responsible for its actions. it has nothing to do with cuteness, but whether an action was necessary to justify the cruelty. it clearly was not as there was a readily avaliable alternative. as for the natural diet... the spider is already in an unnatural situation. it has no need to catch food. its food has no where to run. and its not as if its going to die because its not being fed vitamin mouse. unless he's going to release it to the wild, the naturalness of something is pretty absurd.

and yes i'm pro choice. just as i see the difference between a mouse and a cricket, i see the difference between a human being an a fetus.. or cluster or cells

A human fetus the size of mouse?


Oh, and since when can a cricket become a mouse or [mild sarcasm] am I completely missing the senuous continuity of your sublime logic ? [/mild sarcasm]

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
yup. the cricket just gets annihliated. the baby mouse just gets mauled

as for abortion, its an entirely different thing. neither a baby mouse of a spider uses your body for its life support or growth. and the rights of a scentient woman are no where in the equation.

and durokshark wouldn't be able to say anything about it anyways, since he'd be a hipocrite being a meat eater and all atleast by his logic.

A scentient woman has the right not to engage in sexual activity that could result pregancy...so there you go.

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
not sure, but its a reasonable assumption that a higher form of life with a more complex nerveous system has a greater ability to suffer. and then theres size and speed. if a thousand dentist patients added together have the pain of a man dying of a gunshot to the stomach, you can't really say its equivalent.

wtf?! are you on crack?

 

[miniMUNCH]

Originally posted by: Slappy00

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
yup. the cricket just gets annihliated. the baby mouse just gets mauled

as for abortion, its an entirely different thing. neither a baby mouse of a spider uses your body for its life support or growth. and the rights of a scentient woman are no where in the equation.

and durokshark wouldn't be able to say anything about it anyways, since he'd be a hipocrite being a meat eater and all atleast by his logic.

But how long is it until the mouse actually dies? I'm kinda curious, but couldn't find anything solid using google.

i would think that the venom would be neurotoxic, and the mouse would die of asphyxiation before being consumed, as this would be better for the spider than a mouse that is trashing around with claws and teeth. This is of course assuming that the mouse is natural prey to this particular spider, or the venom might just be protolytic, and from looking at the vidoe i see now that its probably not neurotoxic, as the neurotoxic variety woudl have worked in the mouse in under 15secs (IMO).

snake neurotoxin's take hours, in some cases, to kill large animals.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: LordPhoenix
Poor Poor Mouse.

 

[Connoisseur]

Originally posted by: RaiderJ

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
yup. the cricket just gets annihliated. the baby mouse just gets mauled

as for abortion, its an entirely different thing. neither a baby mouse of a spider uses your body for its life support or growth. and the rights of a scentient woman are no where in the equation.

and durokshark wouldn't be able to say anything about it anyways, since he'd be a hipocrite being a meat eater and all atleast by his logic.

Not true, I've seen crickets twitch their legs for a bit after the spider gets them. I think we look at the mouse as having a greater capacity to feel pain, but honestly how does anyone know? I still don't think I was being cruel feeding my spider.

Also, let not forget the biological reasons for pain (cause of suffering), to give a creature incentive for continuing its life! That's just how nature works.

Abortion as birth control is different that it being done to save the life of the mother. Done for medical reasons I'm fine with, but simply to avoid having a child I think is disgraceful. I do however agree that a women should be able to do with her body what she wants, but just like not showering, abortion is disgusting.

RaiderJ, I disliked the fact that you videotaped the death of the mouse for the entertainment of others. I understand that animals need to eat and a lot of time the methods that they use are harsh. However, we don't need to enjoy this fact like it's saturday morning cartoons. I can't question the methods you used to feed the spider because frankly I don't know enough about them. But videotaping it and showing it to everybody as something "cool" makes me sick. One creature's death to feed another shouldn't be paraded around. It should be treated with a degree of solemnity that you didn't display.

This is why I hate those damn hunting shows that show them offing deer or birds as if they were just shooting at cardboard targets. "Yeah, look at the ANTLERS on THOSE. Man I can't wait to get it MOUNTED."

As far as what OrooOroo was talking about, I don't differentiate between any creatures. I've seen my fair share of little kids torturing insects and other animals and it makes me want to beat the crap out of them (the kids).

And before anyone starts accusing me of any kind of hypocrisy, I am vegetarian. The closest thing I eat to meat is eggs.

Just because pain is a fact of life, doesn't mean we have to exploit it for amusement.

 

[DurocShark]

Originally posted by: Connoisseur

Originally posted by: RaiderJ

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
yup. the cricket just gets annihliated. the baby mouse just gets mauled

as for abortion, its an entirely different thing. neither a baby mouse of a spider uses your body for its life support or growth. and the rights of a scentient woman are no where in the equation.

and durokshark wouldn't be able to say anything about it anyways, since he'd be a hipocrite being a meat eater and all atleast by his logic.

Not true, I've seen crickets twitch their legs for a bit after the spider gets them. I think we look at the mouse as having a greater capacity to feel pain, but honestly how does anyone know? I still don't think I was being cruel feeding my spider.

Also, let not forget the biological reasons for pain (cause of suffering), to give a creature incentive for continuing its life! That's just how nature works.

Abortion as birth control is different that it being done to save the life of the mother. Done for medical reasons I'm fine with, but simply to avoid having a child I think is disgraceful. I do however agree that a women should be able to do with her body what she wants, but just like not showering, abortion is disgusting.

RaiderJ, I disliked the fact that you videotaped the death of the mouse for the entertainment of others. I understand that animals need to eat and a lot of time the methods that they use are harsh. However, we don't need to enjoy this fact like it's saturday morning cartoons. I can't question the methods you used to feed the spider because frankly I don't know enough about them. But videotaping it and showing it to everybody as something "cool" makes me sick. One creature's death to feed another shouldn't be paraded around. It should be treated with a degree of solemnity that you didn't display.

This is why I hate those damn hunting shows that show them offing deer or birds as if they were just shooting at cardboard targets. "Yeah, look at the ANTLERS on THOSE. Man I can't wait to get it MOUNTED."

As far as what OrooOroo was talking about, I don't differentiate between any creatures. I've seen my fair share of little kids torturing insects and other animals and it makes me want to beat the crap out of them (the kids).

And before anyone starts accusing me of any kind of hypocrisy, I am vegetarian. The closest thing I eat to meat is eggs.

Just because pain is a fact of life, doesn't mean we have to exploit it for amusement.

LOL!!!!

Let me see:
You're a vegetarian, but eat chicken fetuses.
You hate hunting shows (ok, so do I because I think you should eat what you kill).
You're mad at the OP because he decided to educate the ATOT community on how a spider eats? You think that Discovery channel should switch its programming to 100% cooking and home making shows? (Not like it's not nearly there already... :roll: )

Exploiting pain for our amusement would be putting a mouse too large for the spider to deal with in the tank. This was NOT done.