Father of three gunned down for $17 in Oakland

[CitizenKain]

This is why we need a REAL death penalty. Automatic death sentence for anyone convicted of murder, first-degree attempted murder or anyone who has three or more violent felony convictions. Give them one appeal and then kill them. Sometimes the answers really are that simple.

If we killed everyone who believes that, then this world would be a much better place. Think of how many fascists would be killed.
Or at least, deport people like you to a country that needs more unthinking slaves.

 

[Kirby]

Tokyo != Hiroshima. LOL.

lulz, i think craig assumes everyone is as much of an idiot as he is.

 

[xj0hnx]

more mindless leftist dribble.

You're a fool. Because someone can kill someone, and only do four years criminals aren't scared of going to jail, hell some like it. Over crowding, weak sentences, clogged court rooms, all to defend the rights of people that took someone else's rights away. They need to end the WoD™ and concentrate on handing out real time and real punishment for real criminals.

 

[Svnla]

A black population the product of a century of racism as their families were kept down and segregated, faces the asian population who frequently run small stores - with perceived gouging and the rage of the poor blacks directed at the nearest targets of the Asians who they perceive gouge them, with the Asian owners having all the people skills with the blacks of a different culture and disgust with the blacks - a formula for great neighborhood relations.

.................... <snip>


But the liberals are the ones who can do more to improve this, while the right merely institutes the problems - and calls the violent enforcement of that a solution.

The left will create a lot more opportunity, education, productivity, while protecting freedoms - even while not having a magic bullet by any means. No one does.

Why can't the black population open their own stores? Oh, I forgot, it is Bush/Republicans/whities/crackers/fill in the blank faults. Gauging? Ever heard of free enterprise or charge what the market will bear? Oh no!!!!, I am going to shoot the manager of Regal Cinama, who has the nerve to charge me $5 for a small coke. RACIST BASTARD!!!!!! 🙄

Liberals can do all that? Let see, how things are doing in cities/areas with high population of blacks and liberal administrations such as Detroit, Oakland, New Orleans (Ward 9) Oak Cliff (south of Dallas, Texas)? Just what we thought, not so great.

Did we try the "Great Society" and other social entitlements programs for the last 50 years or so? How things are going within the black community? How are things such as unemployment, out of wedlock kids, single mom households, crime, college attendance, etc. now vs. 50 years ago? It is getting worse and not better.

There are the old sayings "You can lead a horse to water, but you can NOT make it drink water" and "I am my own man, there is no one fault but my own".

 

[xj0hnx]

Why can't the black population open their own stores? Oh, I forgot, it is Bush/Republicans/whities/crackers/fill in the blank faults. Gauging? Ever heard of free enterprise or charge what the market will bear? Oh no!!!!, I am going to shoot the manager of Regal Cinama, who has the nerve to charge me $5 for a small coke. RACIST!!!!!! 🙄

Liberals can do all that? Let see, how things are doing in cities/areas with high population of blacks such as Detroit, Oakland, New Orleans, Oak Cliff (south of Dallas, Texas)? Just what we thought, not so great.

Did we try the "Great Society" and other social entitlements programs for the last 50 years or so? How things are going with in the black community? How are things such as unemployment, out of wedlock kids, single mom households, crime, etc. are now vs. 50 years ago? It is getting worse and not better.

Actually, blacks own TONS of businesses.

 

[CitizenKain]

Why can't the black population open their own stores? Oh, I forgot, it is Bush/Republicans/whities/crackers/fill in the blank faults. Gauging? Ever heard of free enterprise or charge what the market will bear? Oh no!!!!, I am going to shoot the manager of Regal Cinama, who has the nerve to charge me $5 for a small coke. RACIST BASTARD!!!!!! 🙄

Liberals can do all that? Let see, how things are doing in cities/areas with high population of blacks and liberal administrations such as Detroit, Oakland, New Orleans, Oak Cliff (south of Dallas, Texas)? Just what we thought, not so great.

Did we try the "Great Society" and other social entitlements programs for the last 50 years or so? How things are going within the black community? How are things such as unemployment, out of wedlock kids, single mom households, crime, college attendance, etc. are now vs. 50 years ago? It is getting worse and not better.

There are the old sayings "You can lead a horse to water, but you can NOT make it drink water" and "I am my own man, there is no one fault but my own".

Southerner 4ever!!!

Explains that post I guess.

 

[ichy]

There's a nugget of truth in that and the usual right-wing false myths as well. It pays *no* attention to any of the many issues involved, like the high-crime areas created in a century of racist segregation and poverty, the lack of opportunity and the cultural problems these things have bred, not just the simplistic attack on 'bad mothers'.

LOL, here comes the predictable whining about racism. Screw personal responsibility, let's just pretend that the idiotic decisions that America's ghetto-dwellers make every day aren't actually their fault, their the fault of slavery which ended 150 years ago or Jim Crow laws which were abolished decades ago. Right.

 

[ichy]

How about the very impressive demonstration of the Nazi genocide, showing how efficient they were, with tools like IBM technology, to kill several million people?

There is absolutely no moral equivalence between the Holocaust and the atomic bombings of an aggressor nation which brought an end to the most destructive war in human history.

 

[rpanic]

WTF are you guys talking about, Oakland is the next SF.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzkoeyhAAdk

 

[ichy]

Yes, that's been done for decades and is working real well for you. There's more to the story, but too much bother for you. The mindless 'longer sentences' is all you need.

Actually we have NOT been punishing people harshly for violent crime. One statistic I saw in the World Almanac & Book of Facts from a couple years ago said that the average sentence for murder in the United States was 14 years, and the average time served was 7 years. I also suggest that you read "Homicide" by David Simon, especially the part where he breaks down the numbers of how many of Baltimore's murderers are caught, how many of those who're caught are convicted, and the average amount of time that each of them ends up getting. The idea that we're locking up most murderers for decades or life is simply untrue.

Speaking of Baltimore, another interesting thing I've learned while living here is that most murderers have one thing in common, multiple prior felony convictions, often for violent crimes. There's an obvious way to prevent murders (lock up or kill more violent felons) but our society lacks the stomach to do it.

 

[Svnla]

Southerner 4ever!!!

Explains that post I guess.

Hummm, was my post wrong? If so, dispute it out with facts instead with innuendos.

Oh, BTW, I am NOT some redneck white dude but a first geneation LEGAL immigrant with my own business and no, it is not a grocery store or dry cleaner. So there go your "subtle" racist suggestion, down the toilet.

 

[Svnla]

Actually, blacks own TONS of businesses.

Yes, I was talking about the blacks in the context of Craigs post, the inner city ghettos, not the BET's Johnson/business types.

 

[Craig234]

Why can't the black population open their own stores? Oh, I forgot, it is Bush/Republicans/whities/crackers/fill in the blank faults. Gauging? Ever heard of free enterprise or charge what the market will bear? Oh no!!!!, I am going to shoot the manager of Regal Cinama, who has the nerve to charge me $5 for a small coke. RACIST BASTARD!!!!!! 🙄

The vapidness, lack of care, indulgence in idiocy, all illustrate what a waste any answer for you would be. How ironic that you mention leading a horse to water.

Your logic is horrific in your post, to the point that it strongly suggests you are not ready to appreciate the explanation about that.

It's too bad for you the issue is complex. There are mistakes by the Democrats, mistakes by the Republicans, mistakes by the black, mistakes by the whites.

You ask some questions about 'how blacks are doing compared to 50 years ago', as if any issue can be directly attributed to liberal policies (but your logic errors are far too big to start addressing them), while the last 50 years are a big mix of liberals (60's), Republicans (70's, 80's, 2000's), and centrist Democrats (70's, 90's); but you don't ask other questions. How many blacks are college educated? How has the average black salary compared to whites changed? What percent of blacks are middle class? How many are out from under the poverty line? How are their freedoms? You don't begin to account for changes such as the introduction of crack cocaine, or the blacks being especially hard hit by the destruction of the manufacturing sector in the US.

As I said before, the Great Society achieved a long-term cut in the percent of Americans below the poverty line of a third - disproportionately black.

Affirmative Action has been a big help in lessening the impact of our history of racism - our top black officials have benefited from it (Thomas, Powell, Rice, Obama IIRC et al).

Sorry, but I'm not seeing much point to more response to your way off comments.

Liberals can do all that? Let see, how things are doing in cities/areas with high population of blacks and liberal administrations such as Detroit, Oakland, New Orleans (Ward 9) Oak Cliff (south of Dallas, Texas)? Just what we thought, not so great.

Did we try the "Great Society" and other social entitlements programs for the last 50 years or so? How things are going within the black community? How are things such as unemployment, out of wedlock kids, single mom households, crime, college attendance, etc. now vs. 50 years ago? It is getting worse and not better.

There are the old sayings "You can lead a horse to water, but you can NOT make it drink water" and "I am my own man, there is no one fault but my own".

 

[Craig234]

There is absolutely no moral equivalence between the Holocaust and the atomic bombings of an aggressor nation which brought an end to the most destructive war in human history.

There's a moral equivalence between viewing the killing of hundreds or thousand or millions or people, whether they lived under a war regime in Japan, or in Germany, or in Oakland, as 'impressive' without any care for the lives of the people; there's a moral equivalency of supporting the mass killing of Jews, and the mass killing of the people of Oakland.

Calling mass killing 'impressive' as you are drooling over the technology, whether the bombs of the US or the administrative systems of the Nazis, is the same sort of immoral garbage.

You fall victim to the fallacy of being simplistic; you simply declare that every man, woman and child in Japan is worthless and ok to kill for any or no reason, because of the war.

Your calling for the killing of most or all of the people in Oakland is simple being a moral scumbag.

 

[daishi5]

You ask some questions about 'how blacks are doing compared to 50 years ago', as if any issue can be directly attributed to liberal policies

For example, remember the Great Society that caused poverty to get worse, not better? Oh ya, I looked at the numbers and the long-term poverty rate is down a third from it.

Craig, when you talk about poverty, you insinuated that the decline of the poverty rate is due to the Great Society, but when he talks about how blacks are doing, all of the sudden it is a complex issue. Can you see the flaw in your own arguments?

 

[Craig234]

Craig, when you talk about poverty, you insinuated that the decline of the poverty rate is due to the Great Society, but when he talks about how blacks are doing, all of the sudden it is a complex issue. Can you see the flaw in your own arguments?

That's not a flaw. The larger issue is complex. The War on Poverty was a specific set of major efforts with massive programs, and the percent of Americans under the poverty line had held pretty steady for decades before the War on Poverty (Great Depression excepted), while the rate was about a third lower consistently from what it had been for decades following the War on Poverty was started. There seems a pretty clear and direct causation for that issue.

 

[ichy]

You fall victim to the fallacy of being simplistic; you simply declare that every man, woman and child in Japan is worthless and ok to kill for any or no reason, because of the war.

My grandmother is originally from Austria and was on the receiving end of British and American bombs during World War 2. The fact that innocent people such as her were put in danger and very often killed doesn't mean that those bombing raids were wrong. WW2 was a struggle against a truly evil enemy who pulled us into a war that we wanted no part in, and the ONLY moral course of action was to do whatever it took to bring the war to an end as quickly as possible. There was no "good" way to go about doing it, however the responsibility for the deaths of German and Japanese civilians lies with the leaders of those countries who started the war in the first place. It's very easy for people like you to act all snooty and superior decades later while reading Howard Zinn's bashing of anything and everything the United States has ever done.

 

[ichy]

Your calling for the killing of most or all of the people in Oakland is simple being a moral scumbag.

Now you're resorting to lies and putting words in my mouth. I called for the killing of murderers and violent felons.

 

[Svnla]

LOL @ Craig's reply.

You said how ironic that I mentioned about the horse to the water, yet totally "forgot" to include the very next sentence about "I am my own man..no one fault but my own"..something about personal responsibilty. Coincident? D:

You and your liberal friends still did NOT give me the name(s) of cities/areas in the US with high black population and liberal administrations that are doing well OR getting better than they used to be. Just like when I asked in the Arizona new law regarding illegal immigration thread that anyone would give me just one country that would let anyone sneak in illgally and then grant them citizenship. So far, none taker. Look like it is the same situation here. I may as well ask for a pink unicorn.

You said and I quote "but you don't ask other questions. How many blacks are college educated?". Yes I did. Read my post again.

About the crack cocain introduction. Forgive me but I don't remember any whities put a gun to any blacks in the inner cities to smoke or sell it.

You said that AA is great for blacks but let me ask why Asian immigrants did not need AA and still have higher test scores and more college graduates and less representation in prison? ABC did a segment a while back how Ivy leage colleges limited college admission for Asians because there were too many of them already. Hummmmm. I guess those darn Asians did ok without AA. Oh, I know, this is how it really is. Big white guy in a white hood at the door of a college..."hey, Tyron and Saniqua, you are not welcome here"....a few minutes later..."oh, Chang, Nguyen, Park...please come right in..and take the private elevator to the top, no need to wait in line" 🙂

 

[ichy]

You said that AA is great for blacks but let me ask why Asian immigrants did not need AA and still have higher test scores and more college graduates and less represent in prison? ABC did a segment a while back how Ivy leage college limited college admission for Asians because there were too many of them already. Hummmmm. I guess those darn Asians did ok without AA.

The benefits of a culture that values an education more than a phat set of rims.

Another interesting thing is that the most successful ethnic group in the US as measured by educational achievement isn't actually Asians, it's black immigrants from Africa. So much for whitey holding the black man down. The fact is that America today, despite all of its flaws, has more opportunities than any other society in history. Of course, taking advantage of those opportunities requires to avoid drug addiction, getting knocked up as a teenager or getting a felony conviction, something which seems to elude trash (and I am just as contemptuous of white trash as I am of black inner-city trash.)

 

[Craig234]

Now you're resorting to lies and putting words in my mouth.

How ironic of you to say, given that you 'resorted to lies and putting words in my mouth' for me, the left, Howard Zinn (who incidentally was one of those WWII bombers you praise).

I called for the killing of murderers and violent felons.

My post was in response to nkgeen's statement:

Oakland needs the 1945 Tokyo Treatment.

And anyone who defended it.

 

[JonathanYoung]

The benefits of a culture that values an education more than a phat set of rims.

Another interesting thing is that the most successful ethnic group in the US as measured by educational achievement isn't actually Asians, it's black immigrants from Africa. So much for whitey holding the black man down. The fact is that America today, despite all of its flaws, has more opportunities than any other society in history. Of course, taking advantage of those opportunities requires to avoid drug addiction, getting knocked up as a teenager or getting a felony conviction, something which seems to elude trash (and I am just as contemptuous of white trash as I am of black inner-city trash.)

Agree with everything you say. *applause* Do you have a source for the breakdown of ed. achievement by ethnic group? I'd love to have a look at it.

 

[xj0hnx]

You and your liberal friends still did NOT give me the name(s) of cities/areas in the US with high black population and liberal administrations that are doing well OR getting better than they used to be. Just like when I asked in the Arizona new law regarding illegal immigration thread that anyone would give me just one country that would let anyone sneak in illgally and then grant them citizenship. So far, none taker. Look like it is the same situation here. I may as well ask for a pink unicorn.

They would have an easier time producing a picture of a pink unicorn.

 

[ichy]

Do you have a source for the breakdown of ed. achievement by ethnic group? I'd love to have a look at it.

http://www.asian-nation.org/table-immig.html

http://www.migrationinformation.org/USfocus/display.cfm?id=719

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_immigrants_to_the_United_States#Educational_attainment

Yeah, I know the last of my three sources is a wiki article, but most of the claims in the article cite legitimate sources and studies.

Edit: What I find a little sad is that we have this stereotype of Nigerians as scammers and failures, when Nigerians are actually some of the most educated immigrants in this country.

 

[Craig234]

Agree with everything you say. *applause* Do you have a source for the breakdown of ed. achievement by ethnic group? I'd love to have a look at it.

I guess American blacks having presumably the worst level of education and blacks from Africa having the highest disproves there being any issue with the century of racism and segregation in this country having an effect on that community's culture - no, obviously it's the magic dust that makes American black culture 'bad' and non-American blacks 'good'.

And it's amazing the hypocrisy of the people who will praise a Powell and Rice and have nothing to say about their affirmative action, while strongly opposing it anyway.

Gee... what could affect the culture of a group who has been the victim of massive discrimination for hundreds of years... only one thing, magic dust.

Clearly, the 'culture issue' is one pretty much no one on the right and few on the left are able to deal with, but there are things that work better at improving it.