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Father of three gunned down for $17 in Oakland

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Zebo said:
Actually I could clean up Oakland with a company of Rangers and no embedded media in about a week, and 90% of residents would appreciate it.😛 Some people just need to go bro. Whole place is intimidated by a small minority.
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This would probably be the easiest way, but in terms of being human beings and having morals and ethics, it's the least desirable. I think at this rate, even if something dramatic happened (I had hoped BHO getting elected might, naive me) it would take several generations for anything to happen, and I'd be long dead by then.

Darwin333 said:
You need to find something else to get relieve your frustration bro. Sex, a punching bag, shooting range, saying "woosah" or whatever... The last thing you want to do is go looking for trouble because you tend to find it.
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Nah, I'm just all talk when it comes to violence. I sometimes feel violent but I would never act it out (on people). I'd rather use my energy to further my knowledge, learn a new skill, and basically succeed, which is something members of the demo I'm talking about could never do.

Zorkorist said:
If these young men and women were working, making a "living" wage, we wouldn't have them running around causing trouble.

Hell, they would be part of the American Dream.

But, no!

They have to be paid $7.50/hr.

-John
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Don't know if you're serious, but there are plenty of illegal immigrants in Chinatown working at this level or less, and I don't see them acting like the scourge of society. It's definitely a cultural thing.

There's this Chinese restaurant I go to in SF that has a Mexican busboy. He probably makes a paltry sum but he is so cheerful and even went and learned Cantonese. It's all about hard work in this country, work hard and you will succeed. Stop putting out your hand and complaining about how bad your life is.
 
JEDIYoda said:
Do you even have a stinkin clue what you are talking about?

The issue isn`t a small minority....
It`s larger than you know.
In fact those whbo you think would thank you would dso just the opposite.
All you would do is make things much worse!
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Right it's all black people.🙄

I know how after SF quake shit got orderly quick after shoot to kill orders on any crime. I also know many law abiding citizens can't even go to police for fear of gang retaliation. It's like that in every inner city. I think people are generally good and law enforcement has failed to protect Oakland.
 
PrinceofWands said:
Good plan Ray...then we can shift to violence like this:


lhasa-uprising-col-copy.jpg


Yeah, that's much better.
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WTF is that?
 
JonathanYoung said:
http://cbs5.com/local/fatal.shooting.oakland.2.1812237.html

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/19/BAJJ1EGJ04.DTL&tsp=1

First a Chinese man gets punched in the head and dies, and now another Asian, a father of three is shot to death over $17.

I feel angry and helpless. I honestly do not feel safe when I walk around town. Not sure what I can do, but for sure I will not be protesting and I will not be looting Foot Locker.

Edit: Just realized after reading a few responses that my OP made it sound like fear was the main reason I posted this thread. It is not. I hardly ever walk around town, and I wouldn't do it in a foolish manner even if I did. No, the point of this thread is that Oakland is a shithole, and the longer I live here the more I dislike that demographic that causes so many of the problems in our society.
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Most of the racism I hear is against people from Asia. I am sorry you have to go through this silly crap, people are afraid of the social implications of asian-immigrants and take their anger out in petty, racist ways. I am sorry you have to go through this crap and I hope you can realize that the only Americans that lash out at race are small, scared humans.
 
Funny people here saying to carry when it's against the law. That's the last thing you need. Fact being the chances of getting arrested for that are a million times higher than actually having to use, and it helping, a gun in personal self defense. For all we know one guy here already had his gun drawn and there wouldn't possibly have been time to draw and take him down. Most people aren't as awesome as tom cruise in collateral 🙂
 
The trend in the bay area has been that Asian (especially the elderly) = targets for black criminals.

SF has had several incidents in past year in which the Asian community has been specifically target by black criminals.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/cwnevius/detail?entry_id=62845

Then again even if you were not Asian, Oakland is still a shit hole and dangerous (even if you are black) because of the pandering to the ghetto mentality crowd in that city. The government is fat, bloated and completely ineffective (yay for a dem dominated city for the past 40+ years!!) while also being totally anti-police when ever they get the chance.

Your best bet is to move out of Oakland period. Remember cops will not be responding to any crime via 911 which does not involve violence in Oakland after the lay offs.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/17/MN6R1EFHC0.DTL
 
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Zorkorist said:
If these young men and women were working, making a "living" wage, we wouldn't have them running around causing trouble.

Hell, they would be part of the American Dream.

But, no!

They have to be paid $7.50/hr.

-John
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These people (ghetto thug trash) even with higher wages would still not have jobs because they have no work ethic.

I remember reading a while back ago (SFGATE article in regards to violence threatened at a library construction site by a group of activists) about a job program in SF aimed at inner city Bay View residents which had a 70% failure rate amongst candidates in both passing the course and ensuring they held down a job 1 year later.

According to one individual who actually passed the program and got and has held a job at a construction firm he basically stated that those that dropped out or failed had no work ethic or ability to work well with others or take criticism whatsoever.
 
JonathanYoung said:
Wow, this thread really took off!
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Quite the opposite. But you are the problem too.

In a society that makes the choices we have, there are problem and prices to those choices.

There are no 'easy answers', like the psychopath who wants to 'bring in rangers'.

You know what's hard? The thankless, difficult task of not only devising economic plans that provide opportunity, high employment, more incentive not to commit crime than to commit it even in the face of long jail terms, but also of convincing selfish, short-sighted citizens of agreeing to the plans. What's a lot easier are H. L. Mencken's "There is always an easy solution to every human problem--neat, plausible, and wrong."

Predictably, the ideologues will provide uninformed insistences that more of their ideology will help - like the call to 'eliminate the minimum wage', which would cause great harm.
 
A black population the product of a century of racism as their families were kept down and segregated, faces the asian population who frequently run small stores - with perceived gouging and the rage of the poor blacks directed at the nearest targets of the Asians who they perceive gouge them, with the Asian owners having all the people skills with the blacks of a different culture and disgust with the blacks - a formula for great neighborhood relations.

But the only thing the right, with zero solutions, can come up with are 'move out', or 'follow our ideology and make it far worse'.

Of course, the history of the centuries of bad choices indulging in racism and creating these problems have no lasting effects, they're gone with the signing of a bill.

The right can't tell the difference between the urban society doing better or worse under different policies - they just see poor and gangs and crime and spout platitudes.

If the right DOES somehow get power, their 'solutions' are not atypical of the Latin American way of dealing with dirty peasants who resent the elite rich - use violence to oppose any power or organization for the poor and keep them 'under control'. Now, the blacks in Oakland who are bad behaving are not some noble class of people who are doing no wrong - there are all kinds of people who are not 'socialized' and have a highly criminal culture without respect for others, valuing of property and life, and so on.

But the liberals are the ones who can do more to improve this, while the right merely institutes the problems - and calls the violent enforcement of that a solution.

The left will create a lot more opportunity, education, productivity, while protecting freedoms - even while not having a magic bullet by any means. No one does.

But the left has a better approach that leads to the socialization, and reductions to crime and poverty. The right washes their hands, 'let them eat cake'.
 
Craig The Left has "run", if you want to call it that, that town for 50 years and it's a total shithole.

South America? No try San Francisco. what worked in 1906 will work just as well now.

proclaimbig.jpg
 
Craig234 said:
A black population the product of a century of racism as their families were kept down and segregated, faces the asian population who frequently run small stores - with perceived gouging and the rage of the poor blacks directed at the nearest targets of the Asians who they perceive gouge them, with the Asian owners having all the people skills with the blacks of a different culture and disgust with the blacks - a formula for great neighborhood relations.
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Hurry up and buy! LOL HAHAHAHA.

Your looney left has run Oakland and San Francisco for the past half century and it's still a shithole. Try again.
 
Skoorb said:
Funny people here saying to carry when it's against the law. That's the last thing you need. Fact being the chances of getting arrested for that are a million times higher than actually having to use, and it helping, a gun in personal self defense. For all we know one guy here already had his gun drawn and there wouldn't possibly have been time to draw and take him down. Most people aren't as awesome as tom cruise in collateral 🙂
Click to expand...

I've carried illegally all over the US (in the days before widespread CCW, and in places that still haven't really caught on like Cali and NYC) as well across most of "tourist" Europe. I was never made, or arrested. Of course then my Texas CCW became valid in most of the country, and then my reserve LE credentials became valid everywhere in the country (even those pesky no CCW places) so I no longer live in peril of the law, but I would never fault anyone for attempting to protect themselves.

A class I took at Thunder Ranch several years ago demonstrated that even if you have your weapon trained on someone, they can usually draw their own weapon and shoot you before you can shoot them. It's a matter of the "got him at gunpoint" mindset versus the "I'm going to shoot him" mindset. It takes valuable time for you to change from the first to the latter, while the person drawing and firing starts off in the latter. Anyone that regularly carries should practice their draw from every holster that they regularly use.
 
Nebor said:
I've carried illegally all over the US (in the days before widespread CCW, and in places that still haven't really caught on like Cali and NYC) as well across most of "tourist" Europe. I was never made, or arrested. Of course then my Texas CCW became valid in most of the country, and then my reserve LE credentials became valid everywhere in the country (even those pesky no CCW places) so I no longer live in peril of the law, but I would never fault anyone for attempting to protect themselves.

A class I took at Thunder Ranch several years ago demonstrated that even if you have your weapon trained on someone, they can usually draw their own weapon and shoot you before you can shoot them. It's a matter of the "got him at gunpoint" mindset versus the "I'm going to shoot him" mindset. It takes valuable time for you to change from the first to the latter, while the person drawing and firing starts off in the latter. Anyone that regularly carries should practice their draw from every holster that they regularly use.
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How did you bring a loaded weapon into Europe?
 
Rainsford said:
Even assuming that this was a good approach to improving your personal safety (which I wonder about, because it sounds a lot better when you live in the 'burbs than the inner city), that doesn't help people for whom that's not really a good option. Whatever you might think about your personal urban commando skills, not everyone can just pick up a gun and become John Wayne.

And I'd argue that they shouldn't have to be. I support gun ownership and self-defense, but only as an absolute LAST resort. I'd be just as happy if we could come up with solutions that didn't involve require me to go around blasting holes in anyone...wouldn't you?
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Absolutely.

When yall figure out what that solution is please let me know. Until then I will be prepared to blast a hole into anyone that threatens my life or the lives of my family and friends.

And with proper training (which I advised him to get) and proper practice (which I advised him to do) almost anyone can use a gun for self defense. The only other part to the equation is mental and that is something he has to figure out for himself.
 
Nebor said:
I've carried illegally all over the US (in the days before widespread CCW, and in places that still haven't really caught on like Cali and NYC) as well across most of "tourist" Europe. I was never made, or arrested. Of course then my Texas CCW became valid in most of the country, and then my reserve LE credentials became valid everywhere in the country (even those pesky no CCW places) so I no longer live in peril of the law, but I would never fault anyone for attempting to protect themselves.

A class I took at Thunder Ranch several years ago demonstrated that even if you have your weapon trained on someone, they can usually draw their own weapon and shoot you before you can shoot them. It's a matter of the "got him at gunpoint" mindset versus the "I'm going to shoot him" mindset. It takes valuable time for you to change from the first to the latter, while the person drawing and firing starts off in the latter. Anyone that regularly carries should practice their draw from every holster that they regularly use.
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Holster? Living in Oakland maybe better just to wear wind breaker with hands on S&W 642 in pocket at all times.😛
 
Rainsford said:
Inner city issues are complex, and won't be solved with more guns, or less guns, or more welfare, or less welfare. Honestly, they need to be more than props for pushing political agendas before we can make any progress, IMHO.
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Ding ding ding, we have a winnah!

Its amusing the people here that advocate things like government housing in its current fashion. Generations of families are harmed by this and no one really cares.
 
This is why we need a REAL death penalty. Automatic death sentence for anyone convicted of murder, first-degree attempted murder or anyone who has three or more violent felony convictions. Give them one appeal and then kill them. Sometimes the answers really are that simple.
 
ppatin said:
This is why we need a REAL death penalty. Automatic death sentence for anyone convicted of murder, first-degree attempted murder or anyone who has three or more violent felony convictions. Give them one appeal and then kill them. Sometimes the answers really are that simple.
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There is two ways to encourage people to be law abiding both involve loss. You either lose your assets, job, house etc (which is why it would nice if they had good jobs and whatnot but we sold out Lower class Americans a long time ago for Chinese products) Or one loses life.

Neither threat is there which makes it a shithole because people with nothing to lose, they lose it.
 
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