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Fat loss - how to lose the bulge and gain the ripples

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Originally posted by: alkemyst
Never did I say if he was talking about 45lb plates did that mean he was a pussy....this was an assumption thinking I was just trolling.
Hah, of course I assumed. It's not like the posts of trolls are labeled 🙂

Look, you need to understand the fact that the way you responded, especially in TallBill's thread, sounded like you were trolling. Perhaps you had the best intentions, but if the text you wrote is interpreted as trolling by the majority of people, then it means that either (a) you are trolling or (b) you inadvertently replied in a way that made it seem like you were trolling. And it was the majority of people who saw it this way, as conorvansmack, SC, Deeko, TallBill, and crt1530 all read your post as trolling.

Originally posted by: alkemyst
That was my advice/comment. You have no evidence his hip flexors weren't due to what he was giving us as information. Assuming he isn't just starting his lifting program, he shouldn't be in constant pain if he is doing things right and didn't injure himself.
You're right, neither of us really know how TallBill injured his hip. But you're missing the point: you jumped to the conclusion, with no evidence, that he injured himself because he must have no idea how to properly train. This underlying assumption - which implies that TallBill is ignorant of how to exercise properly and you are a fountain of knowledge - is what made you sound like a troll. Even if it wasn't your intention, that is how it came off, as you can see by the angry replies that came after it.

Originally posted by: alkemyst
No I did not say "must" be an indicator of poor form. I said if you hands are 'torn up' it's hard to lift properly. Being callused to me is not torn up...while lifting without gloves and straps is a decent goal (I try to do as much lifting without gloves as possible...20 years later and even taking long term breaks my hands never become uncallused. I will say though 9 times out of 10 if you don't have a good grip, you are going to have bad form.

The quote in question was "If your hands are being torn apart chances are your form is suffering too."

Looking back at it now, I see that it could be interpreted in two ways. It seems like you had meant that having torn up hands may lead to difficulty maintaining proper form. The way that I - and probably others - read it is that torn up hands must be an indicator that his form is wrong. This second interpretation, without any evidence to back it up, is again based on the idea that TallBill doesn't know what he's doing and you do (again, a troll-like post). It seems like you didn't mean it, but since the sentence is ambiguous, I think you can see how it could have been interpreted that way.

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I never saw anyone else in this thread qualify or explain or justify their advice, however in my OP I did qualify what I said.
Let's take a few examples comparing your post to SC's first post.

* You talk about getting enough calories "to feed your lean muscle mass" but don't explain what lean muscle mass is or how to calculate calories for it. SC, however, talks about BMR, recommends sites like fitday.com that calculate this automatically, provides a link that discusses lean body mass and how to calculate it.

* You mentioned filling in your diet with "quality carbs", but you did not explain what quality carbs are or why you'd want them. On the other hand, SC also recommends quality carbs, but actually defines what this is by discussing Glycemic Index and including a link to a GI chart. He also explains why you should stay away from high GI carbs by discussing insulin.

* You talk about lifting hard and running hard, but don't explain what role their play or what kind of exercise to actually do. SC devotes nearly 5 paragraphs to discussing this.

Do you see what I mean by qualifying or justifying your advice? It is not the same as just listing a bunch of recommendations.

Originally posted by: alkemyst
It's you and others taking what I have said and saying it's SHOWY...if that's showy why the fuck isn't someone talking about 500lb deadlifts...or are you saying TallBill's lifts are something everyone here should be able to do?
TallBill talks about his 500lb deadlift in his own thread dedicated to the quest. You come into a thread that contains general diet advice for everyone and for no particular reason talk about some obscene amount of weight loss that you supposedly did. Not only is this kind of weight loss going to be unhealthy for most people, it has no real place in a thread like this and DOES come off showy.

Originally posted by: alkemyst
My post was very different in that it wasn't so overly complicated.
Not only was your post not that different, since much of it echoes what SC was saying (except in less detail), and it certainly was no less complicated.

Originally posted by: alkemyst
No your defensiveness and assumptions were all wrong. You guys are playing the part that you must be the only diehards here or knowledgeable sources. When someone else comes in you have proven how you react.
As I already said, I'm not the only one who interpreted your posts in the way that I did. As you can see by the replies in TallBill's thread, everyone saw that post as trolling. Now, perhaps you're right, we all assumed wrong, but the only thing that led to that assumption was what you wrote and how you wrote it. If you see that we're all interpreting your replies as trolling, then it's your responsibility to figure out why and correct it.
 
i see the rules are different for me than those that came from crossfit forums.

I never jumped to a conclusion on TB's thread...I made suggestions to look at.

Tallbill is really new to fitness it seems. So I was providing knowledge from my experience.

It's easy to misinterpret anything if you are assuming you are the authority and the other person is not...which is what happens here all the time.

I gave my recommendations to add to SC's thread, I didn't need to rehash what he had brought up nor provide links to the same info.

I mentioned the big exercises like deads, bench, squats, cleans....again I am not sure why you aren't seeing that...it's in english even.

Again I had mentioned my muscle loss along with the 86lbs to show it wasn't necessarily risk free.

 
Originally posted by: alkemyst
i see the rules are different for me than those that came from crossfit forums.
Huh? What do the crossfit forums have to do with this?

Originally posted by: alkemyst
I never jumped to a conclusion on TB's thread...I made suggestions to look at.
I can't really say it any clearer than this: a number of people interpreted your "suggestions" as trolling based on the way they were written. I'm sorry if that was not your intention. Try to be more careful in your writing next time.

Originally posted by: alkemyst
Tallbill is really new to fitness it seems. So I was providing knowledge from my experience.
I could be wrong, as I don't really know much about TallBill, but I didn't see anything in his thread to indicate that. A 500lbs deadlift certainly puts him out of the "beginner" category in my eyes. Despite that, providing advice is never a bad thing. But as I keep saying over and over, most people did not interpret your post as advice. If you were trying to be helpful, it's a shame that your writing came off that way and we're having this pointless argument over it now.

Originally posted by: alkemyst
It's easy to misinterpret anything if you are assuming you are the authority and the other person is not...which is what happens here all the time.
Again, if it was only me who misinterpreted your post, I'd be happy to admit I was wrong and thank you for the advice. But since just about everyone that replied in TallBill's thread saw it the same way, I'm inclined to think that the misinterpretation has more to do with your writing than my reading.
 
forget man...seriously, the neffers here are quick to flame any post I make.

Along with all the other fucking hawt people...they just hate it. If you are buying into it, check y0'self foo.

You should also know about 90% of ATOT are making $250k or more, have 15 supercars, dating a supermodel and fucking another one, are 10" uncut.....

All I know is if I eat good things I still get chubby....If I go into a gym and attempt to lift all their weight I get strong and cut FAST.

People hate me because they want to be me.
 
Like I said in the other thread - just ignore him. He is trolling. Not just H&F, he's been doing it all over OT as well, he's blatantly disagreeing with people for no reason other than to piss them off. All you're doing is giving him what he wants by arguing with him. Just don't respond.
 
Originally posted by: Deeko
Like I said in the other thread - just ignore him. He is trolling. Not just H&F, he's been doing it all over OT as well, he's blatantly disagreeing with people for no reason other than to piss them off. All you're doing is giving him what he wants by arguing with him. Just don't respond.

no, please provide proof.

 
Originally posted by: alkemyst
forget man...seriously, the neffers here are quick to flame any post I make.

Along with all the other fucking hawt people...they just hate it. If you are buying into it, check y0'self foo.

You should also know about 90% of ATOT are making $250k or more, have 15 supercars, dating a supermodel and fucking another one, are 10" uncut.....

All I know is if I eat good things I still get chubby....If I go into a gym and attempt to lift all their weight I get strong and cut FAST.

People hate me because they want to be me.

Lol. Awesome.
 
Originally posted by: alkemyst
forget man...seriously, the neffers here are quick to flame any post I make.

Along with all the other fucking hawt people...they just hate it. If you are buying into it, check y0'self foo.

You should also know about 90% of ATOT are making $250k or more, have 15 supercars, dating a supermodel and fucking another one, are 10" uncut.....

All I know is if I eat good things I still get chubby....If I go into a gym and attempt to lift all their weight I get strong and cut FAST.

People hate me because they want to be me.

:laugh::laugh:
 
Well, I had an injured hip because I squat and deadlift in a wide stance. That was a long time ago, when I was a beginner. Now my hip flexors are actually getting used to it and I've developed a routine that allows me to continue to do both. It's all in the thread, but you just jumped to conclusions.
 
Thanks for the write-up and this thread in general.

As stated in previous threads over the past year, I have a bad knee that has received multiple operations. At my weight (down to 320 from 335 after barely a month of "serious" exercise and change in eating habits), I cannot jog on it without pain creeping in after a minute or two. Luckily, the eliptical machines provide a nice haven for me since I suffer zero-to-little knee irritation while using it.

My question is how do I best utilize these machines if my primary goal is overall weight loss? I've been kind of using them blindly... just mixing up the resistance levels, program type (rolling hills, intervals, plateau, etc.), and length of time. I'd like to learn what is actually "best" for me and my goals. I currently get what seems like a good workout -- I sweat tons, breathe hard and heart rate reaches the goal of 160. But maybe I can optimize my time better on these machines?

I do resistance training every other day, and get on the eliptical every day.

PS - the eliptical says I burn between 225 and 350 calories, depending on what I end up doing that day. I don't know how accurate that is. Does that seem like an "ok" workout? I end up doing between 20 and 40 minutes each day. Should I just do it until I'm ready to fall off of it, instead of using a predetermined length of time?
 
For cardio, you gotta do what makes you happy and what keeps you entertained. I can't stand ellipticals because they're boring to me, but you can do whatever program you like - intervals, hills, slow and steady. Challenge yourself, just make sure to listen to your body when it needs a little break intermittently or when it just needs to be flat out done with the workout. That's a good heart rate, keep doin' what you're doin'.

General cardio workout equipment has an extremely inaccurate or rather imprecise measurement of calories expended. If you're losing weight, then that's the goal here. It's hard for me to tell you when there are varying calculations as to how many calories are burnt during an exercise. Like I said before, challenge yourself. Go hard, but know when it's time to go off. When running, I usually set a distance or a time and adjust my intensity accordingly. You could try that. I know some people just go till they don't want to anymore. Whatever works for you is the best option.
 
I'm a bit confused about the science part of lifting while in a calorie deficit.

I'll start off with what I understand: to lose weight you want to be in a calorie deficit. To make sure that most of the weight lost is fat, you want to do resistance training, typically lifting, to utilize and preserve your muscles. Fair enough, that makes sense. Basically, you're expending more energy than you take in, so the excess has to come from somewhere. Some of it comes from muscles, but you're using those so the body doesn't want to take as much from them. So most of the difference is made up by burning fat.

But doesn't this mean that your muscle development will suffer? If your in an energy deficit, then you're not building muscles, right? So wouldn't someone in an deficit while weightlifting struggle a lot with improving their lifting? Trying to state it succinctly, how does it make sense to lose weight and gain strength at the same time? (I'm assuming this is why there are cutting and bulking cycles, but I don't see those recommended for weight loss per se).
 
Originally posted by: Terzo
But doesn't this mean that your muscle development will suffer? If your in an energy deficit, then you're not building muscles, right? So wouldn't someone in an deficit while weightlifting struggle a lot with improving their lifting? Trying to state it succinctly, how does it make sense to lose weight and gain strength at the same time? (I'm assuming this is why there are cutting and bulking cycles, but I don't see those recommended for weight loss per se).

Increased muscle mass and increased strength are not the same thing. That is, increasing the cross sectional area of a muscle (increasing mass) is only one factor that contributes to strength. However, there are numerous other factors, with the most important being your neurological efficiency. So, you can definitely get stronger without increasing muscle mass, as you should be able to tell from the numerous athletes that compete within set weight classes but manage to get stronger year after year (e.g. olympic weight lifters, power lifters, wrestlers, etc). I suggest you read "What is strength?" and "Neural mechanisms are the most important determinants of strength adaptations".
 
I have a question about my BMR. According to the link you posted in the first post, my BMR is 2773. And when I add to that my estimated daily physical activity, the number becomes 3025.

I'm not exactly sure what to do with that number if my overall goal is weight loss. Is it as simple as that is what I should be shooting for each day? Or do I want to be some amount under it to lose weight?
 
Originally posted by: xboxist
I have a question about my BMR. According to the link you posted in the first post, my BMR is 2773. And when I add to that my estimated daily physical activity, the number becomes 3025.

I'm not exactly sure what to do with that number if my overall goal is weight loss. Is it as simple as that is what I should be shooting for each day? Or do I want to be some amount under it to lose weight?

Weight loss is a result of taking in fewer calories than your body actually burns. This forces your body to dip into its natural stores of energy (aka fat cells). 3025 is your calculated caloric maintenance level. That means that if you take in that amount every day, nothing will happen. You won't lose weight and you won't gain weight; therefore you want to be under that number.

However, I think that the calculation becomes a bit skewed for you. You're a pretty big guy if I remember correctly from your other thread and sometimes the calculations start to get a bit incorrect. For example, I would expect you to burn a great deal more than ~250 calories greater than your BMR. Those with a greater amount of weight to lose can sustain a greater caloric deficit usually. However, I'll be totally honest here, I don't have as much experience with that sort of situation. I usually tell people not to go below their BMR, but I honestly think you could go with consuming 2500-2700 calories a day and be perfectly fine. Be sure to track calories too because if you don't, you'll realize that you're often times getting too little or too much food. If you have any other questions, continue to ask (or PM me). I'd be glad to help.
 
Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Originally posted by: xboxist
I have a question about my BMR. According to the link you posted in the first post, my BMR is 2773. And when I add to that my estimated daily physical activity, the number becomes 3025.

I'm not exactly sure what to do with that number if my overall goal is weight loss. Is it as simple as that is what I should be shooting for each day? Or do I want to be some amount under it to lose weight?

Weight loss is a result of taking in fewer calories than your body actually burns. This forces your body to dip into its natural stores of energy (aka fat cells). 3025 is your calculated caloric maintenance level. That means that if you take in that amount every day, nothing will happen. You won't lose weight and you won't gain weight; therefore you want to be under that number.

However, I think that the calculation becomes a bit skewed for you. You're a pretty big guy if I remember correctly from your other thread and sometimes the calculations start to get a bit incorrect. For example, I would expect you to burn a great deal more than ~250 calories greater than your BMR. Those with a greater amount of weight to lose can sustain a greater caloric deficit usually. However, I'll be totally honest here, I don't have as much experience with that sort of situation. I usually tell people not to go below their BMR, but I honestly think you could go with consuming 2500-2700 calories a day and be perfectly fine. Be sure to track calories too because if you don't, you'll realize that you're often times getting too little or too much food. If you have any other questions, continue to ask (or PM me). I'd be glad to help.

Ah, ok. That makes sense. I've been tracking calories dutifully with Fitday.com and I average between 2200 and 2700 a day. My weight has dropped to 315 after starting near 340 a couple of months ago. I guess that rate is probably a little too fast, but I figured it would melt off at first so I think this is expected. I'll probably hit a wall here in the coming weeks.
 
I'm confused as to how fat intake plays into the calculations for weight loss. Everything references tracking your calories, with little-to-no mention of fat. I assume that as an overweight person, the plan is to exercise, and eat low-fat meals while aiming for a specific daily caloric intake target. Should I be shooting for a certain amount of fat grams to eat per day, like I do for calories? Or is it not as important, somehow?
 
Originally posted by: xboxist
I'm confused as to how fat intake plays into the calculations for weight loss. Everything references tracking your calories, with little-to-no mention of fat. I assume that as an overweight person, the plan is to exercise, and eat low-fat meals while aiming for a specific daily caloric intake target. Should I be shooting for a certain amount of fat grams to eat per day, like I do for calories? Or is it not as important, somehow?

You shoot for a certain amount of fat via a %, or at least that's how I suggest it here in the sticky. 30% calories from fat ends up being x amount of grams after you know your amount of calories ingested. Low fat diets while cutting are not actually beneficial. There are research studies that have shown that higher fat diets actually result in better fat loss results due to increased satiety and therefore being less likely to break the diet. So losing weight and eating low fat meals is actually a bad idea. Fat doesn't actually make you fat. Far from it. Carbs are often times more easily stored as fat than fat actually is.
 
Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Originally posted by: xboxist
I'm confused as to how fat intake plays into the calculations for weight loss. Everything references tracking your calories, with little-to-no mention of fat. I assume that as an overweight person, the plan is to exercise, and eat low-fat meals while aiming for a specific daily caloric intake target. Should I be shooting for a certain amount of fat grams to eat per day, like I do for calories? Or is it not as important, somehow?

You shoot for a certain amount of fat via a %, or at least that's how I suggest it here in the sticky. 30% calories from fat ends up being x amount of grams after you know your amount of calories ingested. Low fat diets while cutting are not actually beneficial. There are research studies that have shown that higher fat diets actually result in better fat loss results due to increased satiety and therefore being less likely to break the diet. So losing weight and eating low fat meals is actually a bad idea. Fat doesn't actually make you fat. Far from it. Carbs are often times more easily stored as fat than fat actually is.

Wait, are you telling me that withholding cheese from virtually everything I've eaten in the past couple of months... HAS BEEN FOR NAUGHT? /wrists

(thanks for explanation!)
 
Originally posted by: xboxist
Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Originally posted by: xboxist
I'm confused as to how fat intake plays into the calculations for weight loss. Everything references tracking your calories, with little-to-no mention of fat. I assume that as an overweight person, the plan is to exercise, and eat low-fat meals while aiming for a specific daily caloric intake target. Should I be shooting for a certain amount of fat grams to eat per day, like I do for calories? Or is it not as important, somehow?

You shoot for a certain amount of fat via a %, or at least that's how I suggest it here in the sticky. 30% calories from fat ends up being x amount of grams after you know your amount of calories ingested. Low fat diets while cutting are not actually beneficial. There are research studies that have shown that higher fat diets actually result in better fat loss results due to increased satiety and therefore being less likely to break the diet. So losing weight and eating low fat meals is actually a bad idea. Fat doesn't actually make you fat. Far from it. Carbs are often times more easily stored as fat than fat actually is.

Wait, are you telling me that withholding cheese from virtually everything I've eaten in the past couple of months... HAS BEEN FOR NAUGHT? /wrists

(thanks for explanation!)

Yeah, pretty much. I'm not saying that you should eat a pound of it a day, but especially if you balance it with clean oats and whole grains and exercise, you can be healthy as a horse while enjoying the finer things in life (aka cheese, bacon, etc).
 
I have a question about the information I obtained from the BMR link. I've used one of these before and basically followed exactly what the OP suggests. However, the section on that page below the BMR calculator is completely new to me...

My BMR is around 1900 cals/day (32 yrs old/185lbs/5'10"). I understand this is a number that would basically be the amount your body would use up in a day where you basically did absolutely nothing.

Now, on to the second section. Total energy requirement reported is in the neighborhood of 3800 calories. I was somewhat conservative in my estimates in order to come up with that figure as well.

Now, with both of these numbers under consideration, does that mean that if I were to consume 2800 calories a day that I would be at a true net deficit of 1000 (assuming both numbers are actually true mind you)? I understand there are other variables but am trying to make sure I'm using this information the way I should.

*EDIT* DAMNIT... all I had to do was scroll through the last page. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I have a question about the information I obtained from the BMR link. I've used one of these before and basically followed exactly what the OP suggests. However, the section on that page below the BMR calculator is completely new to me...

My BMR is around 1900 cals/day (32 yrs old/185lbs/5'10"). I understand this is a number that would basically be the amount your body would use up in a day where you basically did absolutely nothing.

Now, on to the second section. Total energy requirement reported is in the neighborhood of 3800 calories. I was somewhat conservative in my estimates in order to come up with that figure as well.

Now, with both of these numbers under consideration, does that mean that if I were to consume 2800 calories a day that I would be at a true net deficit of 1000 (assuming both numbers are actually true mind you)? I understand there are other variables but am trying to make sure I'm using this information the way I should.

*EDIT* DAMNIT... all I had to do was scroll through the last page. 🙂

Well, I didn't tell you to calculate your total energy requirement 😛 Those things are so off on so many levels. You only wanna calculate the BMR. Honestly, if you're an active guy at 185, you could probably go with 2200-2400 calories/day and lose weight rather nicely. I highly doubt you're actually burning close to 4k calories and you burn more in the area of about 2800-3k. I'd say try out 2200-2400 and if you are losing weight too quickly or feel weak, up the calories by about 200. You really just gotta play with it to see how you feel and see what will still help you lose weight.

EDIT: To give you some perspective, I'm 20/5'8"/156. It says my caloric maintenance is about 3800 calories. Clearly there is no way that's right. I eat about 2500-2700 a day at this point in time and have trouble NOT gaining weight at times. My calories went up about 700 from just putting in my sitting/reading/studying/listening to lecture time. That's terrible BS.
 
A formula that worked for me (it matches what I determined to be the amount of calories I need to eat to keep my weight) is 16 * (lbs. of lean body mass). I'm 5'10", 160lbs and ~12% body fat, so my lean body mass is 140lbs.

140 * 16 = 2,240 calories a day.

The formula is referenced all over the internet if you google for "basal metabolic rate", and was derived from empirical data. Pretty much works perfectly in my case, though I think if you are significantly overweight things may change a little.
 
Originally posted by: brikis98
I wrote an entry in my blog about how I lost 43lbs this year. It is quite relevant to this post so anyone that bothers to read all the way to the end may want to take a look 🙂

I have a question about how it says here that fitness beginners can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time because the fat is primed to become muscle but that it doesn't last. How long does it usually last? A few weeks? A few months?

I started exercising more rigorously and consistently in about mid-to-late May and have lost some fat and gained some muscle, but was wondering how long this'll last ...
 
fat doesn't become muscle. I am not sure what you are asking, if you are talking about the quick early gains when starting training then you could be looking at about a year or so if you keep pushing yourself and your nutrition.

You are never going to 'put on muscle' during a cut...you will lose fat just by a by-product of training which will indeed make you stronger.

However, the best gains will come when you are packing on some slight fat. Most don't need to train at that level though.
 
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