Fat loss - how to lose the bulge and gain the ripples

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spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
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Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Both machines or one machine may be off. I'm partial to running since it's functional and usually burns more calories per time. Use whichever you're more comfortable with. If you do some HIIT, you will burn way more calories throughout the day than just how many you burn while running since it will boost your metabolism quite a bit. You can do that with either the elliptical or running and you can be sure to burn the amount of calories you're looking for.
I am not questioning the accuracy of the machine or my heart rate monitor. I am questioning the accuracy of the Fit.com site.

Should running at 6.7 mph for 45 minutes should burn more than 405 calories? YES or NO???

 
Mar 22, 2002
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Originally posted by: spacejamz
Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Both machines or one machine may be off. I'm partial to running since it's functional and usually burns more calories per time. Use whichever you're more comfortable with. If you do some HIIT, you will burn way more calories throughout the day than just how many you burn while running since it will boost your metabolism quite a bit. You can do that with either the elliptical or running and you can be sure to burn the amount of calories you're looking for.
I am not questioning the accuracy of the machine or my heart rate monitor. I am questioning the accuracy of the Fit.com site.

Should running at 6.7 mph for 45 minutes should burn more than 405 calories? YES or NO???
Lol. You expect me to be able to answer that when you haven't given me your gender, age, weight, etc?

P.S. Don't be rude. I'm tryin' to help here and you could've gotten this info by researching several sites yourself with the knowledge of your stats.
 
Jun 25, 2002
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Makes a lot of sense to me. I'll be showing this to others wanting to make sense of the whole fit thing. I think it's a good length, though I know that personally, whenever I see % numbers or specific quantities of food, I get a little anxious about them because it seems so impossible to follow them strictly, because I find myself at the mercy of nearby food.
 

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,560
1,006
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Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Originally posted by: spacejamz
Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Both machines or one machine may be off. I'm partial to running since it's functional and usually burns more calories per time. Use whichever you're more comfortable with. If you do some HIIT, you will burn way more calories throughout the day than just how many you burn while running since it will boost your metabolism quite a bit. You can do that with either the elliptical or running and you can be sure to burn the amount of calories you're looking for.
I am not questioning the accuracy of the machine or my heart rate monitor. I am questioning the accuracy of the Fit.com site.

Should running at 6.7 mph for 45 minutes should burn more than 405 calories? YES or NO???
Lol. You expect me to be able to answer that when you haven't given me your gender, age, weight, etc?

P.S. Don't be rude. I'm tryin' to help here and you could've gotten this info by researching several sites yourself with the knowledge of your stats.
I wasn't trying to be rude (I apologize if it came across that way - was it the CAPS for Y/N??? that was not meant to be 'yelling')...

let me put it this way, are the numbers on the fit.com site accurate for your body weight/size, etc???

are they accurate for anyone else here who uses fit.com???

I have 3 sources of data (HR monitor, elliptical and fit.com). Two are reasonably close (HR monitor and the elliptical), hence I am questioning the validity of the fit.com numbers.

several online calorie burn calulators range from 600-700 calories for me (38 yo, 175 lbs) which are inline with HR monitor and the elliptical.



 
Mar 22, 2002
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Originally posted by: spacejamz
Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Originally posted by: spacejamz
Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Both machines or one machine may be off. I'm partial to running since it's functional and usually burns more calories per time. Use whichever you're more comfortable with. If you do some HIIT, you will burn way more calories throughout the day than just how many you burn while running since it will boost your metabolism quite a bit. You can do that with either the elliptical or running and you can be sure to burn the amount of calories you're looking for.
I am not questioning the accuracy of the machine or my heart rate monitor. I am questioning the accuracy of the Fit.com site.

Should running at 6.7 mph for 45 minutes should burn more than 405 calories? YES or NO???
Lol. You expect me to be able to answer that when you haven't given me your gender, age, weight, etc?

P.S. Don't be rude. I'm tryin' to help here and you could've gotten this info by researching several sites yourself with the knowledge of your stats.
I wasn't trying to be rude (I apologize if it came across that way - was it the CAPS for Y/N??? that was not meant to be 'yelling')...

let me put it this way, are the numbers on the fit.com site accurate for your body weight/size, etc???

are they accurate for anyone else here who uses fit.com???

I have 3 sources of data (HR monitor, elliptical and fit.com). Two are reasonably close (HR monitor and the elliptical), hence I am questioning the validity of the fit.com numbers.

several online calorie burn calulators range from 600-700 calories for me (38 yo, 175 lbs) which are inline with HR monitor and the elliptical.
Trust the HR monitor and elliptical readings then. I've never really worried about calories burnt so I wouldn't know if FitDay was correct or not. You'll be alright no matter which you choose though.
 

Chrono

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2001
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Hey Hey what's up! Good stuff here man. Hit me up on AIM. I have more things to talk to you about!
 
Dec 30, 2004
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Ah, I was really afraid of this when I saw the title, but I see it is crossfit. :thumbsup:
I've been following EvFit myself with intermittent fasting. Not eating until at least 1 hour after working out has made such a difference in muscle growth for me. I hit a wall, it was because I was eating carbs after working out and replenishing my glycogen stores. I was cutting off the growth hormone response.

Doing much better now.
 

hypn0tik

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2005
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Generally speaking, should cardio be done before or after the lifting?

Thanks for the awesome post!
 
Mar 22, 2002
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Originally posted by: hypn0tik
Generally speaking, should cardio be done before or after the lifting?

Thanks for the awesome post!
Cardio should be done after weightlifting since it allows you to lift hard and have a much lower chance of injuring yourself due to excess muscle fatigue.
 

Java Cafe

Senior member
Mar 15, 2005
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Fabulous post! Lots of things to learn.

But, please could you clarify one thing that still confuses me? My BMR (calculated from the first table on this page http://www.internetfitness.com/calculators/bmr.htm) is 1478. Now, how would I know what my caloric requirement is if (a) I am beginning to try bulk (that is growing my muscle mass, using a very soft/beginner's version of Stronglifts 5x5, which I am starting on this week, 3 days/wk and alternate days of cardio), and (b) when I try to cut (perhaps, 5 or 6 weeks from now)?

That leads me to the second question. For the next 8 weeks (after which I will be traveling for a month, internationally), my plan is to try to bulk for 6 weeks, and then cut for the remaining 2 weeks, since I figure cutting is easier (an quicker than bulking). Is that a good plan? Or should I try the ratio of bulk/cut weeks be 5/3 ?

Thanks, so much.
 
Mar 22, 2002
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Originally posted by: Java Cafe
Fabulous post! Lots of things to learn.

But, please could you clarify one thing that still confuses me? My BMR (calculated from the first table on this page http://www.internetfitness.com/calculators/bmr.htm) is 1478. Now, how would I know what my caloric requirement is if (a) I am beginning to try bulk (that is growing my muscle mass, using a very soft/beginner's version of Stronglifts 5x5, which I am starting on this week, 3 days/wk and alternate days of cardio), and (b) when I try to cut (perhaps, 5 or 6 weeks from now)?

That leads me to the second question. For the next 8 weeks (after which I will be traveling for a month, internationally), my plan is to try to bulk for 6 weeks, and then cut for the remaining 2 weeks, since I figure cutting is easier (an quicker than bulking). Is that a good plan? Or should I try the ratio of bulk/cut weeks be 5/3 ?

Thanks, so much.
For the estimated caloric maintenance value, I need to know your weight, age, height, etc. You can google "estimated calorie burn" or something like that and you'll find some websites.

Your second question is easier for me to answer right now: I don't know if bulking for 6 weeks and cutting for 2 is worth it. If you get the results you're looking for in 6 weeks, then that's great; but usually it takes a little bit longer than that to hit one's goals (unless you are already close to obtaining them). So let me ask you - what are your goals weight and body fat %-wise? I'll try to estimate from those and give you the best info I can.
 

KoolDrew

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
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Don't you think it'd be a better idea to determine maintenance calories first and then decide calorie requirements based on that depending on the individuals goal rather than BMR? You also have to keep in mind a fatter individual will be able to sustain much larger of a deficit and lose fat at a much faster rate than an individual at say 12% trying to get below 10%. The latter will have to lose weight at a much slower rate to prevent LBM loss. I generally recommend a percentage below maintenance. Say 20% below when cutting and 10% over when bulking. For example, my maintenance is about 3200 calories a day. On a cut I would probably start with calories around 2500 (around 20% deficit) and monitor progress. If I'm losing between 1-1.5 lbs a week I'll leave it as is, but adjust when needed as time goes on. I also incorporate refeeds, free meals and diet breaks the leaner an individual is the more of a problem metabolic slowdown and LBM loss becomes making diet breaks and refeeds more important. Free meals is just so I don't go insane. For bulking I may aim for about 3500 calories and aim for 0.5-1 lb gain a week and adjust as needed.

There's always going to be need for adjustments because as bodyweight goes up or down your maintenance calories change. As you limit calories further metabolism slowdown plays a role in reducing maintenance as well.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
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I like the OP's approach, and it's well researched and explained. However I want to comment on this statement:

"The goal while dieting is not to lose both fat a muscle weight, but only fat weight. In doing so, you have to do some sort of resistance training. This resistance training will allow you maintain your lean muscle mass (and potentially increase it slightly) while losing only fat mass. To maintain your muscle mass, it is optimal to do a low rep, high weight type of workout. These workouts under bulking conditions would cause you to grow, but since your body is dealing with less energy than normal, its job is to maintain."

Low reps and heavy weights should only be done cautiously, especially if you aren't really young. I would counsel against doing them without counterbalancing with some low to medium weight higher-repetitions cycles, and even only doing heavy weights occasionally, not regularly (i.e. every workout). You are running a risk of strains or worse injuries, especially to joints if you do otherwise. Even champion body-builders don't go heavy every workout, far from it. And, whatever weights/reps you are working with, try to warm up with lighter weights before going for your ultimate sets.
 
Mar 22, 2002
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Originally posted by: Muse
I like the OP's approach, and it's well researched and explained. However I want to comment on this statement:

"The goal while dieting is not to lose both fat a muscle weight, but only fat weight. In doing so, you have to do some sort of resistance training. This resistance training will allow you maintain your lean muscle mass (and potentially increase it slightly) while losing only fat mass. To maintain your muscle mass, it is optimal to do a low rep, high weight type of workout. These workouts under bulking conditions would cause you to grow, but since your body is dealing with less energy than normal, its job is to maintain."

Low reps and heavy weights should only be done cautiously, especially if you aren't really young. I would counsel against doing them without counterbalancing with some low to medium weight higher-repetitions cycles, and even only doing heavy weights occasionally, not regularly (i.e. every workout). You are running a risk of strains or worse injuries, especially to joints if you do otherwise. Even champion body-builders don't go heavy every workout, far from it. And, whatever weights/reps you are working with, try to warm up with lighter weights before going for your ultimate sets.
Low reps and heavy weights should be done only after form is perfected. Perfect (or close to perfect) form and checking one's ego at the door will result in near-to-no injury possibility. I agree that older persons should consult a professional / physician since I specifically wrote this for the average member on AT. Champion bodybuilders are very different from people trying to lose weight. Bodybuilders must reduce volume and such to prevent injury, etc, however the newer persons involved in a novice weight program will be fine. The risk of injury in a low rep, high weight program with good form is near-to-none though. Thank you for allowing me to stress form in this thread though.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
33,923
5,671
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Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Low reps and heavy weights should be done only after form is perfected. Perfect (or close to perfect) form and checking one's ego at the door will result in near-to-no injury possibility. I agree that older persons should consult a professional / physician since I specifically wrote this for the average member on AT. Champion bodybuilders are very different from people trying to lose weight. Bodybuilders must reduce volume and such to prevent injury, etc, however the newer persons involved in a novice weight program will be fine. The risk of injury in a low rep, high weight program with good form is near-to-none though. Thank you for allowing me to stress form in this thread though.
I think you are being a little optimistic there. Form is important, naturally, but you have to pay attention to your body and the signals/sensations. No pain no gain has to be understood correctly. There's good pain and bad pain. The good pain is the lactic acid pain from muscle fatigue. Bad pain is pain that means you are injured or injuring yourself. You do not want bad pain. And don't kid yourself - warming up is crucial to not hurting yourself. Um, and stretching, too. Stretching after warming up, generally speaking. In the words of Lee Haney, "never stretch a cold hamstring."

My view of it is that you should only go "heavy" occasionally, heavy meaning you can only do 2-3 reps at that weight. If you are in a fat weight loss program you should even be more cautious, IMO, because your body is apt to be a bit slower in dealing with stress.
 
Mar 22, 2002
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Originally posted by: Muse
Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Low reps and heavy weights should be done only after form is perfected. Perfect (or close to perfect) form and checking one's ego at the door will result in near-to-no injury possibility. I agree that older persons should consult a professional / physician since I specifically wrote this for the average member on AT. Champion bodybuilders are very different from people trying to lose weight. Bodybuilders must reduce volume and such to prevent injury, etc, however the newer persons involved in a novice weight program will be fine. The risk of injury in a low rep, high weight program with good form is near-to-none though. Thank you for allowing me to stress form in this thread though.
I think you are being a little optimistic there. Form is important, naturally, but you have to pay attention to your body and the signals/sensations. No pain no gain has to be understood correctly. There's good pain and bad pain. The good pain is the lactic acid pain from muscle fatigue. Bad pain is pain that means you are injured or injuring yourself. You do not want bad pain. And don't kid yourself - warming up is crucial to not hurting yourself. Um, and stretching, too. Stretching after warming up, generally speaking. In the words of Lee Haney, "never stretch a cold hamstring."

My view of it is that you should only go "heavy" occasionally, heavy meaning you can only do 2-3 reps at that weight. If you are in a fat weight loss program you should even be more cautious, IMO, because your body is apt to be a bit slower in dealing with stress.
Actually, to counter that saying, there really is no "good pain." There is only acceptable discomfort and injury. What you call good burn is actually not necessary or really desired as an athlete. Lactic acid hinders recovery and progress. One doesn't need to feel the "good pain" to be gaining muscle. Trust me though, people know muscle burn from muscle pull/tear. I agree that warming up is also extremely important, which is why I suggested SL's 5x5 website that has a whole page dedicated to warming up.

I think that your view of going heavy has no real basis. Crt, by your standards goes heavy almost every day and is an extremely successful powerlifter. The suggested lifting programs do 4-6 reps, which you don't consider "heavy." Lifting heavy is fine. I think that people obviously need to warm up, perfect their form, and go for it. The likelihood of injury is much lesser than you make it seem.

 

KoolDrew

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
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"Heavy" is a very subjective term. Starting Strength is a beginners program. As a beginner most work done will be lightweight form work anyway. Start light, correct form and add weight gradually. As you get more advanced, you will not be able to handle going "heavy" every workout and that's why Starting Strength's audience is beginners.
 
Mar 22, 2002
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It seems the sticky has been removed from this thread so I'll bump it. Haven't had as many folks asking the same questions so I thought it was beneficial to have on the front page. I'll bump it to let people see it still.
 

Dadofamunky

Platinum Member
Jan 4, 2005
2,184
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I personally think "going heavy" once or twice a week is a recipe for serious injury unless you are a committed powerlifter doing it 6-7 days a week. And in that case, once or twice a week is academic, isn't it? 2-3 reps of a huge weight level is the very definition of ego-work. I guess it works for some folks.

I've done both resistance training and free weight training in combo with cardio for 30 years, starting with the first-gen Nautilus, and my view is that you should not use more weight in a set than you can do 7-8 reps or more upon. (I prefer more at a time.) You can still get to the point of 'muscle failure,' but in such a case your chances of hurting yourself are almost nil and you're doing your most constructive work.

I've consistently found that with this approach, you can steadily 'improve' your weight resistance levels without serious risk of injury. Say, adding a plate every three weeks or so, assuming you're consistent and focused. Doing dramatic increases in weight for the purpose of "going heavy" is darn near suicide, in my view. I've never had a tendon or ligament injury and have had many productive days in the gym because of it.

Also, if you're small-boned, as I am, huge weights are madness. All the muscle in the world cannot change bone/ligament infrastructure. That's genetic.

And, in my case, I've never gone beyond 190 lb. or so in a BP, and 120 lb. in curls. Now, at 50, I'm generally at 150 BP/60-70 curls. Being small-boned myself and considerably older than I used to be, I have to know my limits. But I can get up in the morning and like what I see in the mirror, for the most part :)

***EDIT Please note that I am no professional, since I obviously couldn't ever crack a pathetic 200 on the BP***
 
Mar 22, 2002
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Originally posted by: Dadofamunky
I personally think "going heavy" once or twice a week is a recipe for serious injury unless you are a committed powerlifter doing it 6-7 days a week. And in that case, once or twice a week is academic, isn't it? 2-3 reps of a huge weight level is the very definition of ego-work. I guess it works for some folks.

I've done both resistance training and free weight training in combo with cardio for 30 years, starting with the first-gen Nautilus, and my view is that you should not use more weight in a set than you can do 7-8 reps or more upon. (I prefer more at a time.) You can still get to the point of 'muscle failure,' but in such a case your chances of hurting yourself are almost nil and you're doing your most constructive work.

I've consistently found that with this approach, you can steadily 'improve' your weight resistance levels without serious risk of injury. Say, adding a plate every three weeks or so, assuming you're consistent and focused. Doing dramatic increases in weight for the purpose of "going heavy" is darn near suicide, in my view. I've never had a tendon or ligament injury and have had many productive days in the gym because of it.

Also, if you're small-boned, as I am, huge weights are madness. All the muscle in the world cannot change bone/ligament infrastructure. That's genetic.

And, in my case, I've never gone beyond 190 lb. or so in a BP, and 120 lb. in curls. Now, at 50, I'm generally at 150 BP/60-70 curls. Being small-boned myself and considerably older than I used to be, I have to know my limits. But I can get up in the morning and like what I see in the mirror, for the most part :)

***EDIT Please note that I am no professional, since I obviously couldn't ever crack a pathetic 200 on the BP***
I have to disagree with you there. You may not have had any injuries, but you now have no idea where your potential could have gone if you had pushed it harder. I reached 215 bench at 150 pounds of body weight in less than 10 weeks. I agree that there are poor ways of going about it, and I have repeatedly suggested a 5x5 (3 times a week, not once or twice a week) program where you should not fail at all. Therefore, if you don't push to the point of failure, your risk of injury decreases significantly.

Also, the rep range 6-8 is usually for body builders, looking to gain mass rather than strength. This is not a good idea if you're looking for functional strength. You'll get stronger, yeah, but it won't be the optimal situation.

I commend your ability to continue with your activity level at your age and you obviously know your limits, however as a person I am more interested in pushing the envelope. I am training to become a physical therapist and try to explain to people that if you feel anything other than muscle soreness, then you're doing it wrong. Perfect form is stressed and weight should not be added until that has come about.
 

Dadofamunky

Platinum Member
Jan 4, 2005
2,184
0
0
Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
I have to disagree with you there. You may not have had any injuries, but you now have no idea where your potential could have gone if you had pushed it harder. I reached 215 bench at 150 pounds of body weight in less than 10 weeks. I agree that there are poor ways of going about it, and I have repeatedly suggested a 5x5 (3 times a week, not once or twice a week) program where you should not fail at all. Therefore, if you don't push to the point of failure, your risk of injury decreases significantly.

Also, the rep range 6-8 is usually for body builders, looking to gain mass rather than strength. This is not a good idea if you're looking for functional strength. You'll get stronger, yeah, but it won't be the optimal situation.

I commend your ability to continue with your activity level at your age and you obviously know your limits, however as a person I am more interested in pushing the envelope. I am training to become a physical therapist and try to explain to people that if you feel anything other than muscle soreness, then you're doing it wrong. Perfect form is stressed and weight should not be added until that has come about.
I completely agree with your last pgh., particularly given your current push in your career. Just a few points: a) at just about age 50, pushing the envelope isn't too realistic for me. b) Not sure how 2-3 reps builds functional strength under any circumstances; c) I'll note that I could care less about mass; I find that my routines work very well for the things I'm trying to achieve: endurance on the tennis court; good cardiovascular endurance; strong, well-proportioned build, which I want to maintain into my 70's, which are not as far away as they used to be :D. So I focus a lot more on my stomach and legs these days with a lot of shoulder and lat work to keep my first serve in the 110 mph range painfree. My big goal is to not fall apart as I get old. :);

I like your perspective on these things and it's fun to discuss them with you. First non-computer thing I've ever done on AT.
 
Mar 22, 2002
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Originally posted by: Dadofamunky
Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
I have to disagree with you there. You may not have had any injuries, but you now have no idea where your potential could have gone if you had pushed it harder. I reached 215 bench at 150 pounds of body weight in less than 10 weeks. I agree that there are poor ways of going about it, and I have repeatedly suggested a 5x5 (3 times a week, not once or twice a week) program where you should not fail at all. Therefore, if you don't push to the point of failure, your risk of injury decreases significantly.

Also, the rep range 6-8 is usually for body builders, looking to gain mass rather than strength. This is not a good idea if you're looking for functional strength. You'll get stronger, yeah, but it won't be the optimal situation.

I commend your ability to continue with your activity level at your age and you obviously know your limits, however as a person I am more interested in pushing the envelope. I am training to become a physical therapist and try to explain to people that if you feel anything other than muscle soreness, then you're doing it wrong. Perfect form is stressed and weight should not be added until that has come about.
I completely agree with your last pgh., particularly given your current push in your career. Just a few points: a) at just about age 50, pushing the envelope isn't too realistic for me. b) Not sure how 2-3 reps builds functional strength under any circumstances; c) I'll note that I could care less about mass; I find that my routines work very well for the things I'm trying to achieve: endurance on the tennis court; good cardiovascular endurance; strong, well-proportioned build, which I want to maintain into my 70's, which are not as far away as they used to be :D. So I focus a lot more on my stomach and legs these days with a lot of shoulder and lat work to keep my first serve in the 110 mph range painfree. My big goal is to not fall apart as I get old. :);

I like your perspective on these things and it's fun to discuss them with you. First non-computer thing I've ever done on AT.
Sorry it took so long to reply to your post, but thanks for giving a different perspective. It's rare to find someone who has been active for so long without any injuries. It's even more rare to find someone still able to do it at 50. I can definitely understand that and I'm sure I will start to curb my goals as I get a little bit older, but at 20 I wanna do everything I can :) Thanks for the post and hope to see you around here.
 

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