Fat loss - how to lose the bulge and gain the ripples

[Cookie]

Thanks for this thread. I read it a few months ago when I knew nothing and lots of the info went well over my head, but coming back to it now that I have been paying much closer attention to what I'm eating it's very informative. But I still have a few questions...


A little background:
I started losing weight a little over 10 months ago (39 pounds so far) first by going to the gym, doing a little cardio, weights, core stuff, and swimming usually 3 times a week. After maybe a month I started messing with diet by cutting carbs out a lot and eating more protein. I love carbs, and I have a hard time just eating a little bit, so I stopped buying them completely. But I wasn't counting calories and I didn't really have a clue what I was doing. But it seemed to work.

A month ago, knowing it was going to get harder as my weight got lower, and starting to get bored and unmotivated at the gym, I decided to take another step and switch things up a bit. I started doing p90x, a C25k program, and reading a lot about nutrition and fat/carb/protein calorie ratios.

I thought my diet had been pretty good, I never eat fast food, don't overeat, eat fresh veggies, balanced meals, limited restaurants, etc. 2 weeks into p90x I gained 3 pounds, and I had no idea if I was eating too much, or too little, so I started tracking calories. I wasn't hungry at all and I felt like I had enough energy, but the first day I tracked was 1164 calories. I never tracked calories before, I thought it would be borrrrring, but I'm fascinated with it now! (Thanks in part to helpful apps with charts and graphs and a huge food database!) So I came back here...


I calculated my BMR at 1462

And then my maintenance value at 2522! (Based on doing p90x every day, running every 2nd day, and a stair climbing challenge on work days)

First question: This seems extremely excessive to me! Is this the value you say to ignore? I'm pretty certain if I ate that much I would gain weight rapidly!
(The link you have to get this value on the OP seems to be broken btw)

So after discovering my BMR I started eating more, at least to the minimum, sometimes up to 350 calories or so higher than the minimum. I'm currently aiming for 1450-1800 - and averaging 1550 since I started. That's over my BMR, but it's almost 1000 calorie deficit. Is that reasonable as long as I am not hungry and have energy?

Also I started trying to balance the fat/carb/protein thing better. I can get the minimum grams of protein (113g) based on your OP no problem, but trying to get it without going too high in fats or carbs is tricky! Partly because my freezer is full of enough beef and lamb to last me for a year and right now there is no more room for chicken or fish!

Yesterday I managed 35% protein 34% carbs 31% fat. Is that ok?
Today I had chicken for lunch and got to 42% protein 36% carbs 22% fat
Are today's values enough of an improvement that I should just go buy leaner meat and find room to keep it? Or does it not matter that much? I was trying for the p90x suggestion of 50/30/20, but I know other options work also.

Another question to satisfy my curiosity... when I gained those 3 pounds week 2 'everyone' told me it was probably just muscle growth from p90x. Certainly my clothes were still getting looser and I felt stronger based on my ability to keep up with the p90x monsters compared to the week prior. But is this possible with a large calorie deficit? Or more likely rebounding back a bit from the 5 pound loss the previous week due to water weight or something else. I weigh myself the same time each day after I wake up, so it wouldn't be a fluctuation throughout the day thing.

Thanks for your help!

 

[SociallyChallenged]

That calculation for caloric maintenance is way, way off. That's why I say to ignore it. I say you want to be above your BMR. I typically suggest 300-500cal above based on the individual. If you aren't losing weight then, drop the cal 200-300cal and wait to see.

You honestly don't have to aim exactly for those percentages, but being within 5% of any of them is advisable. You honestly shouldn't worry about being slightly off. There's no way anybody can be spot on and you'd waste a lot of time trying to be precise. What is the breakdown of p90x's suggestion (i.e. which percentage is which)?

When you gained three pounds, it was likely a fluke in your water/sodium balance. I've seen healthy people sway up to 10 pounds in a few days. Don't micromanage pounds. Manage measurements of your waist, arms, hips, legs. Manage performance. Manage how you feel. You didn't gain 3 pounds of muscle in one week. It's not physically possible.

 

[Cookie]

Thanks, that confirms a lot of what I was thinking.

Sorry I wasn't clear, the p90x suggestion is 50% protein, 30% carbs, 20% fat. Something I find tough since most protein sources include either carbs or fats as well.

I'm trying to not worry too much about pounds and the fluctuations over short periods of time, but it's tough since it's so easy to measure! But I do track my weight, and have a graph with my weight each Monday morning for just over the last year, just so I can be motivated by the clear downward trend during those weeks when the upward fluctuations get discouraging.

You are right though, noticing improvements in performance, strength, endurance, energy levels, clothing sizes, belt loops, etc works just as well, or better.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Thanks, that confirms a lot of what I was thinking.

Sorry I wasn't clear, the p90x suggestion is 50% protein, 30% carbs, 20% fat. Something I find tough since most protein sources include either carbs or fats as well.

I'm trying to not worry too much about pounds and the fluctuations over short periods of time, but it's tough since it's so easy to measure! But I do track my weight, and have a graph with my weight each Monday morning for just over the last year, just so I can be motivated by the clear downward trend during those weeks when the upward fluctuations get discouraging.

You are right though, noticing improvements in performance, strength, endurance, energy levels, clothing sizes, belt loops, etc works just as well, or better.

That p90x suggestion is silly. 20% fat is way, way too low and doesn't do you any good. Most research nowadays supports having a higher fat diet -30-40% - from healthy fat sources. Protein is essential, yes, but not as 50% of your calories in a given day. I imagine that is partially a marketing ploy to get you to buy sponsored protein supplement products. 30% protein, 40% carbs, 30% fat is probably the most comfortable not only for losing weight, but for maintaining a healthy diet. You could even have higher fat intake levels than that if you're cutting the carbs down a bit. Research has supported that more as of late.

Keep stickin' with it. One of the better models of tracking weight is using a 3 or 5 day average. It reduces the impact of one day's weight measurement (whether high or low) and gives you the most important information - the trend.

 

[Cookie]

Thanks again, Those numbers look much more doable. Right now, just off the top of my head, I'm averaging about close to an even third for each type. Some days are higher carbs, some days higher fats, and proteins hover around 30-40%.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

FWIW: I weighed in at 205 on a Thursday. 4 days later I was at 211. Fluctuations can be crazy.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

FWIW: I weighed in at 205 on a Thursday. 4 days later I was at 211. Fluctuations can be crazy.

I'm not trying to lose weight and I was 148lbs 4-5 days ago. Now I'm 156. It's just how the human body works sometimes.

 

[shortylickens]

225.

I WILL lose 50 pounds by labor day.
If not, you all get hot sweaty hairy blowjobs.

Bank on it.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

225.

I WILL lose 50 pounds by labor day.
If not, you all get hot sweaty hairy blowjobs.

Bank on it.

I don't think I've ever shuddered at something I saw in the Health and Fitness forum. You've changed that. Lmao.

 

[shortylickens]

Lost a pound. But that could be a lot of things besides body fat.
Will keep it up. Eventually I wanna cut out all garbage, and jog 5 miles without stopping or slowing down too much.

 

[PrayForDeath]

Lost a pound. But that could be a lot of things besides body fat.
Will keep it up. Eventually I wanna cut out all garbage, and jog 5 miles without stopping or slowing down too much.

What did you change in your diet?

 

[shortylickens]

Mostly cut out the junk (processed starch and sugar) and replaced it with green vegetables. Killed the soda too, thats a big one right there. Replaced it with those little powder packets you dump in the water. Not crystal light, the generic ones from Target.

I snack on almonds and cashews and such.

 

[MateuszMoore]

Woah It's quite long but it worth reading, Thanks for posting this interesting post. I usually do my daily routine in the morning to maintain my healthy lifestyle. Like walking 30mins.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I've been thinking alot more about calories the past 2-3 months.

Anyway, I have been looking at BMR and RMR. I am 35, male, 6' tall and weigh 210 pounds. I am getting back to the weight/running regime. Basically Strong Lifts on days 1,3,5 and running 3+ miles on days 2,4,6. Rest on day 7. The thing is, I have an office job so I am sitting most of the day. I usually do a walk at 2 PM jsut to get out of hte office but that is not much.

So, I figure I burn 2500-3000 calories on a given day. But I think that might be a bit high (the 2900 end anyway).

I am typically taking in 2000-2100 calories a day. So a 500 calorie deficit I think.

Is this a good path to be on to loose 1+ pound a week? I also want to gain some more muscle. Bascially taking in 100+ grams of protein in addition to the weight regime.

Thoughts? I want to be to 195 by the end of July.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

You pretty much have to choose whether you want to lose weight or gain muscle. With the caloric intake you're talking about, you should be on par to lose ~1lb per week. You may or may not gain muscle in that time though. A lot of that depends on genetics. If you lose weight and feel you would like more muscle, you should just complete a bulk phase while in a caloric excess.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I was doing this plan in the summer. I managed to drop weight and gain muscle. It seems as though the muscle building plataued somewhow.

I have not been getting stronger over the past few months. So, the suggestion is to worry about weight and get to my target weight while doing weight lifting and running as I am now. Then do a caloric equilibrium once at my goal weight to maintain that weight while trying to add muscle mass?

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I was doing this plan in the summer. I managed to drop weight and gain muscle. It seems as though the muscle building plataued somewhow.

I have not been getting stronger over the past few months. So, the suggestion is to worry about weight and get to my target weight while doing weight lifting and running as I am now. Then do a caloric equilibrium once at my goal weight to maintain that weight while trying to add muscle mass?

Yeah, beginners can sometimes experience fat loss and muscle gain. In addition, it seems like muscle gain occurs just due to aesthetics. You lose fat, you begin to see musculature.

But yeah, gaining strength while cutting is pretty difficult. You can do it, but you have to nail your nutrition, sleep, stress levels, etc. Worry about the weight, lose it, and then get into a maintenance routine where you continue to get stronger. At that point, you can see if you're gaining enough mass for your own satisfaction. If not, up the calories by 300-500 per day.

 

[Cookie]

I have more questions. So many, in fact, I don't know where to start, so forgive me if I am not clear or concise.

Since my last post I lost another 10 pounds and hit my original weight goal. Yay! I hope to lose another 10 by the end of the year, but right now my priority is building strength and endurance.

During the last 2 months I cut my calories down to about 1350-1500 while running and doing p90x. I thought it might be a little low, but I wasn't really hungry and I had energy, so I stuck with it. But in the last week, and especially today, I was insanely hungry. I'm up to nearly 1850 in all healthy, quality food, and I haven't even eaten dinner yet. Maybe it's all the exercise catching up with me, or maybe in part because I'm finished the C25k program and am running longer distances. So I guess it's time to bump up the calories. Also, I started phase 3 in p90x and it says I'm supposed to up the carbs to 60% now for energy.

My understanding is that if my goal is to build muscle and gain strength, I need to eat more calories anyway... right? Or is that just if you want to build bulky muscles? I don't want that.

My next question is how many more calories? Is it trial and error to figure it out based on progress? Even in the last 2 months losing weight and with a large calorie deficit I've noticed a significant increase in strength. At least it seems significant to me. Because of that, and due to lack of experience, I won't have any way to measure if my progress is successful staying at just 1800 calories, or if I'd need more.

I can give you my stats if it'll help answer my questions too. I just don't want to do the wrong thing and go backwards with the progress I've made so far. I think I'm just nervous because eating less calories and eating less carbs has worked great, but now I'm supposed to eat more of both! What do you think? What should I do?

Thanks

 

[SociallyChallenged]

If you're trying to gain strength and increase your muscle mass, yes, you need to eat overall more calories. You won't get bulky - you have to try pretty damn hard to get that way.

It honestly depends on your level of activity. If you're burning 800cal during a p90x session, you need to eat 800cal extra each day plus 300-500cal more if you want to gain muscle mass. You'll have to experiment with it a bit to see what works for you. Start by eating 2500cal and see where you go.

You definitely won't go backward no matter what. If you keep moving, stay active, you'll keep your weight down (if you're conscious of your diet). You may gain weight if you up your calories enough, but if you're still doing p90x, it'll be more muscle than fat.

You can definitely eat more carbs and calories overall. 60% of calories from carbs is excessive, unless you're a serious endurance athlete. I'd suggest 40% of calories from carbs. It's easy to get, sustainable, and you get more protein/fat in your diet, which is good for gaining muscle.

 

[BergeLSU]

I have a question and didn't want to start a new thread.

I am long overdue to start being active. I am 5'7" and 175 lb. I went running the other day and about a minute into the jog, my left knee started hurting (7 out of 10 on a scale) to the point where I needed to stop jogging after about 5 minutes. I knew my ankles would hurt but this concerns me. I don't want to push through it if I am doing damage. I cannot make my knee hurt by putting pressure on it. Should I just go see a doctor?

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I will defer to SC. He is good about paying attention to posts to this thread.

I will state this. You should rest the knee, I'd give it 7-10 days. And try again. It could be a form issue. I found that my knee pain issues were toe in/out issues while running.

I am learning at 36 that proper form comes into play with everything you do. I bowl . Form is huge in bowling. I lift weights. Form is big. I run. yes, form is big. Even basketball.

You are paying attention to what your body is saying. That is huge. The question is now, why is it saying that?

I do have a good question though. Are you new to running? Over the past year, how often have you run/exercised?

I'd be more worried about the person that has run 5 miles 3 times a week for a year than someone that just ran for the first time in 5 years. I guess my point is that your level of experience is important to know.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I have a question and didn't want to start a new thread.

I am long overdue to start being active. I am 5'7" and 175 lb. I went running the other day and about a minute into the jog, my left knee started hurting (7 out of 10 on a scale) to the point where I needed to stop jogging after about 5 minutes. I knew my ankles would hurt but this concerns me. I don't want to push through it if I am doing damage. I cannot make my knee hurt by putting pressure on it. Should I just go see a doctor?

You don't just go from being sedentary to running in a day. You have to ramp things up. Start walking more. Do a walk/jog program. You may have to lose some weight PRIOR to running, since running puts a massive load on the joints and every pound puts more than double that on your lower extremity joints.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

SC,

At 175 pounds, does bergeLSU need to loose weight before running?

Seems like it is more of an acclimation thing. His body just isn't used to it.

Berge, how far can you run without getting out of breath? Maybe a program like couch2s5K is in order.

I've had issues in the past. I have overcome them. Google runner's knee. Your muscles around the knee might be weak. Strengthening them can help. To busy to write more...

 

[SociallyChallenged]

SC,

At 175 pounds, does bergeLSU need to loose weight before running?

Seems like it is more of an acclimation thing. His body just isn't used to it.

Berge, how far can you run without getting out of breath? Maybe a program like couch2s5K is in order.

I've had issues in the past. I have overcome them. Google runner's knee. Your muscles around the knee might be weak. Strengthening them can help. To busy to write more...

Pain is never ok, even when you're just getting into something. 175 at 5'7" isn't a big deal if you've been working out. Sure, he might be a bigger build, but I doubt that 15lbs of that is doing him any good. Granted, I'm making stipulations here. If he has had previous injury or anything like that, it comes into play when he increases his activity level as well. If it's a problem, it should be treated. If it alleviates with slight weight loss (and if that's in line with his goals), then there's no need to rehab it. If it doesn't change, then he likely needs to rehab it. That or he can find another way to get some cardio in.

 

[BergeLSU]

SC,

At 175 pounds, does bergeLSU need to loose weight before running?

Seems like it is more of an acclimation thing. His body just isn't used to it.

Berge, how far can you run without getting out of breath? Maybe a program like couch2s5K is in order.

I've had issues in the past. I have overcome them. Google runner's knee. Your muscles around the knee might be weak. Strengthening them can help. To busy to write more...

I was actually trying a couch to 5k thing, and within the first minute of running my knee started hurting. Now I have noticed it when I am climbing stairs. If you told me to go outside and jog, I think I could get to a half-mile without needing a rest. After that, I would need about 1-2 minute walk/jog intervals.

I'm not what one would call "active," but I'd like to think of myself as a little more than sedentary. I do have an office job (engineer) with a little field work, but I try to walk throughout the day (use the water fountain/bathroom on the 2nd floor instead of the one next to my office, stuff like that).

I am going on a skiing trip this weekend, so I'll see how it holds up. I have been doing some wall squats to try and strengthen that knee muscle along with a "stepper" machine. The following week I think I will be given a bike to use, so I might be working my way up to running.

ETA: I am 26, and up until I was 22, I weighed around 120-125. Very underweight for my height, I know. Then I started gaining weight, which my doctor and friends all told me was better for me (doctor: healthwise, friends: appearance).