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Family has money for international travel, but not healthcare

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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,465
4,202
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She already is suffering because of her bad choices, and nothing you or anyone else will change that including providing her with taxpayer funded healthcare.
I am not sure what basis you have for making that claim. Providing her with health care will help alleviate her suffering. Her bad choices were not having more abortions, BTW.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,198
446
126
If our high schools taught basic financial literacy, and our high schools in the poorest areas weren't also therefore the worst-funded, he might have a point. People making dumb decisions because they don't know better isn't exactly a cause for morally judging them and being smug. When I was a kid I drove my car with a flat tire a good number of blocks to the tire place - I learned an expensive lesson (ruined the rim), but it's not like everyone can know everything just by birth. For someone who grew up with parents who had bad money habits and were ignorant about finances, where are they going to learn these things? They're sure not taught in most schools. Likely most people they know also never learned about personal finance and are making the same decisions, so it seems totally normal.

The lesson being, we ought to be arguing for (paying for) better education before mocking people for being not knowing how to do things.


Okay, so we have a person making some questionable or bad decisions somewhere in America. So what? She probably ought to get subsidized health insurance. I know some people who make other bad decisions too. Should we have one thread per bad decision in America?
The whole economy collapsed in 2008 by the supposedly most financially literate and intelligent part of our society and somehow you think a few hours at school is going to teach kids, many who would have failed the marshmallow test, to spend their money wisely and prudently while resisting the temptation to buy things they don't need with money they don't have?:rolleyes:

The greatest problem this country has is immorality and amorality of which its greatest sin is greed.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,388
1,012
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I am not sure what basis you have for making that claim. Providing her with health care will help alleviate her suffering. Her bad choices were not having more abortions, BTW.
Funny, I would say her suffering is being away from her husband and kids which is why she spends every available dollar seeing them whenever possible. Regardless, why don't you and your fellow progressives pass the collection plate to send her back home and get treatment there rather than relying on the rest of us to pay for it?

Oh I forgot, it's always a "collective action" problem with you guys. We can't help her unless we all help her.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,465
4,202
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Funny, I would say her suffering is being away from her husband and kids which is why she spends every available dollar seeing them whenever possible. Regardless, why don't you and your fellow progressives pass the collection plate to send her back home and get treatment there rather than relying on the rest of us to pay for it?

Oh I forgot, it's always a "collective action" problem with you guys. We can't help her unless we all help her.
Whenever possible? She goes to see her kids once a year, and that's too much for resident right wingers. But keep putting conservative "family values" on display here.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,388
1,012
126
Whenever possible? She goes to see her kids once a year, and that's too much for resident right wingers. But keep putting conservative "family values" on display here.
And you keep putting on display the progressive values of "I'll help, but only if you help first since it's a collective action problem."
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,465
4,202
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And you keep putting on display the progressive values of "I'll help, but only if you help first since it's a collective action problem."
Better than conservative's values of "i'll stand in the way of other people helping"
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,708
1
0
Whenever possible? She goes to see her kids once a year, and that's too much for resident right wingers. But keep putting conservative "family values" on display here.
Again,what you're saying is that it's so terrible here that someone chooses to stay in the US w/o health insurance rather than migrate back to their country of origin and live together with their family.
 

berzerker60

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2012
1,233
1
0
Poor people don't have much money so they don't even need to make many financial decisions beyond very basic ones that anyone with common sense can do. Unfortunately, the reason many poor people are poor is because they lack common sense.
That's ridiculous, and kind of a classist shitty thing to say. There's nothing "common sense" about the value of compounding interest, and in fact exponential growth is exactly opposed to how human brains and untrained intuition work. That impacts credit cards, it impacts their own investments (large or small), it impacts use of paydal loans, it impacts car loans, it impacts buying on installments. Unless someone sits you down and shows you how to do the math (or use Excel), it's not at all intuitive how much money you're losing by not paying off your credit cards each month. When you're deluged in advertising from paydal loan places assuring you they're a good bet, advertising from the unhealthiest foods pointing out how cheap and tasty they are, advertising from scam artists and exploitative credit card companies and banks offering subprime mortgages with proves lies about how easy they are to pay off - it's damned hard to "just use common sense."

This isn't limited to poor people either, as much as you'd like to believe they're only poor because they deserve it. 90+% of NFL players are bankrupt within years of retiring. Tons of middle class people have no idea about this stuff either, they're just less affected by it because they can survive while not using "common sense" since they're not at the margins already.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/business/financial-literacy-beyond-the-classroom.html?pagewanted=all
Anyone with even a basic understanding of compound interest, inflation and diversification should know that the answers to these questions are “more than,” “less than” and “false.” Yet in a survey of Americans over age 50 conducted by the economists Annamaria Lusardi of George Washington University and Olivia S. Mitchell of the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, only a third could answer all three questions correctly.
I took a class on personal finance my last year of college and I learned an enormous amount, and I come from a solidly upper-middle-class background with parents who are generally good with money, plus I've taken advanced mathematics. It's completely unreasonable to expect everyone to just know this stuff.

The whole economy collapsed in 2008 by the supposedly most financially literate and intelligent part of our society and somehow you think a few hours at school is going to teach kids, many who would have failed the marshmallow test, to spend their money wisely and prudently while resisting the temptation to buy things they don't need with money they don't have?:rolleyes:

The greatest problem this country has is immorality and amorality of which its greatest sin is greed.
No, it probably won't fix things completely or immediately, but it will surely at least point them in a better direction. If you told people the importance of 1) pay off your credit cards every month if at all possible, 2) don't use payday loans, they're a huge scam, 3) compound interest is a big fucking deal, and maybe 4) some basics on buying big-ticket items like cars (different types of loans structures, when it's better to pay in cash, etc.), that would put people a LONG way in the right direction. Point them to trustworthy and respected institutions like Vanguard for investing and they'd be even better off once they start making some headway.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
102,049
16,282
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Man, such a terrible country.

It's apparently so awful, that someone (possibly not a legal citizen) whose spouse and 4 kids have been deported wouldn't choose to stay here rather than live with their family.

How much that we don't have can we give away in order to change this terrible situation?
Yes, exactly, because it's very easy for an illegal citizen to fly in and out of the US on an annual basis.
:rolleyes:

what the fuck is wrong with nearly all of you people? (especially the OP)
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
8,822
268
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Yes, exactly, because it's very easy for an illegal citizen to fly in and out of the US on an annual basis.
:rolleyes:

what the fuck is wrong with nearly all of you people? (especially the OP)
Citizenship and LPR status are two different things.

While his intent was probably trying to say she was an illegal alien, his wording, merely says she isn't a US citizen, not that she is an illegal alien. And she probably isn't or at least wasn't when her husband and half her family was deported. If she was a US citizen, they probably would have received wavier.

By virtue of the article, we know she isn't here illegally. If she is eligible for medicad(or would be if Texas expanded it), shes a LPR who has been in the US for more than 5 years, per the article shes been her for more than 10. The question is has she applied/received citizenship? IF she has become a US citizen, did she not find a immigration attorney to take her and her husbands case pro bono to get her husbands 10 year bar from the US waived and get her family back over her? Or were they waiting the 10 year bar out?

But that also answers Zaaps "question". She and her the rest of her family didn't all leave, because they were all legal and could get citizenship in the future(if they haven't already), and then get the rest of the family back over here.
 
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nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
0
Citizenship and being law permanent resdient in the US are two different things.

While his intent was probably trying to say she was an illegal alien, his wording, merely says she isn't a US citizen. And she probably isn't or at least wasn't when her husband and half her family was deported.
The article isn't clear on if half her kids were deported or if they just voluntarily went to live with their father.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
8,822
268
126
The article isn't clear on if half her kids were deported or if they just voluntarily went to live with their father.
They probably weren't deported, but she was smart enough to know she couldn't support 7 kids on her own so they went with their father. The end result is still the same.

The main assistance she needs right now is legal assistance to reunite her family. Then she wouldn't have to take trips to El Salvador, and her and her husbands combined income would likely allow them to get healthcare.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,285
87
86
There was a lady on a reality lottery millionaires TV show.

She won something like 50 million and lived in a trailer park, very poor. She bought a Lamborghini that could raise and lower itself because she had a gravel road.

She didn't use the money to actually pave the road. Just made sure to get her lambo modified to raise over the bumps.

You just can't fix poor people mentality with money. She also still lived in the trailer park. Didn't even have a garage for the lambo.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
102,049
16,282
136
Citizenship and LPR status are two different things.

While his intent was probably trying to say she was an illegal alien, his wording, merely says she isn't a US citizen, not that she is an illegal alien. And she probably isn't or at least wasn't when her husband and half her family was deported. If she was a US citizen, they probably would have received wavier.

By virtue of the article, we know she isn't here illegally. If she is eligible for medicad(or would be if Texas expanded it), shes a LPR who has been in the US for more than 5 years, per the article shes been her for more than 10. The question is has she applied/received citizenship? IF she has become a US citizen, did she not find a immigration attorney to take her and her husbands case pro bono to get her husbands 10 year bar from the US waived and get her family back over her? Or were they waiting the 10 year bar out?

But that also answers Zaaps "question". She and her the rest of her family didn't all leave, because they were all legal and could get citizenship in the future(if they haven't already), and then get the rest of the family back over here.
well, he did mean to say illegal alien, because why else would he further assume that her family was deported? Also, there is no such thing as an "illegal citizen"

You are either a resident alien (green card), visiting (student/work visas) full citizen, or illegal.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
0
They probably weren't deported, but she was smart enough to know she couldn't support 7 kids on her own so they went with their father. The end result is still the same.

The main assistance she needs right now is legal assistance to reunite her family. Then she wouldn't have to take trips to El Salvador, and her and her husbands combined income would likely allow them to get healthcare.
She could just stay in El Salvador with her husband and kids.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,465
4,202
126
Again,what you're saying is that it's so terrible here that someone chooses to stay in the US w/o health insurance rather than migrate back to their country of origin and live together with their family.
Maybe she needs her American job to support her family? Have you considered that possibility before assuming you know better than her what she should do?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,465
4,202
126
They probably weren't deported, but she was smart enough to know she couldn't support 7 kids on her own so they went with their father. The end result is still the same.

The main assistance she needs right now is legal assistance to reunite her family. Then she wouldn't have to take trips to El Salvador, and her and her husbands combined income would likely allow them to get healthcare.
You have no information about her husband's income, nor about her prospects in El Salvador. For all we know, her job in the US might be supporting her kids there. She could bring her kids here and go on welfare instead.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,708
1
0
Maybe she needs her American job to support her family? Have you considered that possibility before assuming you know better than her what she should do?
Well yes, quod erat demonstrandum. The point being that her choice to stay in the US w/o health insurance is hardly a coherent argument for why red states should be compelled to provide health care insurance for her.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
8,822
268
126
She could just stay in El Salvador with her husband and kids.
Or she could just go through legal means to get her husband her legally. Which she can do and has a fairly high chance of doing so by either waiting out his 10 bar, or filing for a wavier after gaining US citizenship.

If you leave the US for more than a few months as LPR, your lose you LPR status. Said status takes a long time to get, so why should she sacrifice her LPR status and her families chance at a better life in the US?

Of course you are a xenophobe and don't like immigrants so you just want her to leave.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
8,822
268
126
You have no information about her husband's income, nor about her prospects in El Salvador. For all we know, her job in the US might be supporting her kids there. She could bring her kids here and go on welfare instead.
When I say reunited, I mean in the US not El Salvador. Thats why she needs legal assitance to get the rest of her family back to the US.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
8,822
268
126
Well yes, quod erat demonstrandum. The point being that her choice to stay in the US w/o health insurance is hardly a coherent argument for why red states should be compelled to provide health care insurance for her.
I think the article was about the failings of Obamacare, not so much as trying to force red states to expand medicaid. There should have been a method for the poor in states not expanding medicaid, to get subsidized healthcare. The reason their wasn't is because then no state would expand medicaid, forcing all the costs of the poor on to the Feds(instead of just 90% of it).

You obviously didn't read the article. An absurdly high number of US citizens fall into this gap, where their states wont expand medicaid but they don't make enough to qualify for subsidized Obamacare.

They even cite an absurdly high percentage of Texas uninsured fall into this very gap. So its not just for her.

Won't matter for much longer. It is only a matter of time before Red States feeling pressure from their financial backers, relent and expand medicaid. States not expanding medicaid will be losing billions of dollars a year going forward. Add on top of that a lot businesses will end up being fined under the employer mandate as a result. And their healthcare systems will continue to be as financially strained as ever as people continue go to the hospital, not pay, and leave the hospitals/doctors completely uncompensated.
 
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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,465
4,202
126
She would be eligible for Medicaid if she brought her kids here and went on welfare. It would cost Texas taxpayers more, but that's their problem. Like the resident Republicans here are saying, she should make good financial choices for herself.
 

BUnit1701

Senior member
May 1, 2013
853
1
0
She would be eligible for Medicaid if she brought her kids here and went on welfare. It would cost Texas taxpayers more, but that's their problem. Like the resident Republicans here are saying, she should make good financial choices for herself.
Good, your starting to grasp it. Its not our job to take care of her, she can take care of herself. If that means moving to a state that will let her get Medicaid, then bully for her.
 

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