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Falsely cited for not wearing seatbelt...

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PrinceofWands said:
As already stated numerous times, I've already had multiple evaluations from mental health professionals...
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Multiple evaluations? How many were involuntary? :awe:

On a more serious note, I'm with you up until the point where you claim you'll never pay, no matter what. That naive bravado, if not insanity. Sometimes, it is more than just a flesh wound. 😉
 
guyver01 said:
The funny part?

The OP is trying to use one police officer... to say another police officer lied.

"Don't listen to that police officer. Police officer's lie! but.. um... listen to this one... he's my buddy, so he doesnt lie!"
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You're a douchebag. That's all I have for now.
 
Perknose said:
Multiple evaluations? How many were involuntary? :awe:

On a more serious note, I'm with you up until the point where you claim you'll never pay, no matter what. That naive bravado, if not insanity. Sometimes, it is more than just a flesh wound. 😉
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Three. One when promoting to armed officer at a security company I worked for, one during my divorce, and one during a custody battle when trying to stop the ex from moving across country. Also two voluntary...once after my mom died and once a couple years ago during a general rough patch.
 
OP, I'm seriously pulling for you. It was said earlier in this thread... it's really f-ing scary how a cop's word trumps all and you have to prove your innocence, instead of it being the other way around.

Sadly you'd be screwed without your witness, and only semi-less screwed because your witness is someone the court finds inherently more "trustworthy" than just an average law-abiding citizen.

I, unfortunately, have resigned myself to the fact that traffic tickets are no different than a tax that everyone one way or another will be relegated to pay. It's how the police department funds itself. Hopefully you will get a sympathetic judge willing to hear your case (provided you can convey your points in a thought-out, mature way) and side with you because deep down he agrees it is a slight on the very principles this country was founded on.

Good luck!
 
A retired police officer who is your friend. I wonder if he would lie for you? Hmmm...????
Courts know that friends lie for each other and it doesn't matter who your friend is. A third party person, being the actual police officer will be believed and you will be fined. Happens everyday. Your best to get off your high horse and just pay your fine like everyone else. It's much cheaper and less aggrivating. Most Pro'se litigants either drop their case midway, or hire an attorney for thousands out of principle. Now, you have the option of losing twice, in Court and with your attorney.
 
guyver01 said:
why? because i speak my mind and tell the truth?
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No, because you're a little bitch and a nerd. That's my definition of douchebag, anyway.


guyver01 said:
no. i told him to move because he feels that "people focus more on convenience and cost than morality and honor."

it's apparent he doesn't like it here... and he said he saw no other option...

i gave him one.
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Stop saying such douchey things and you won't need to worry about being called a douche.
 
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Man, who the hell has the kind of time to do this kind of stuff? 😀 Good luck I guess.

KT
 
Several years ago, my wife (girlfriend at the time) got a speeding ticket. I don't remember the amount, but let's say it was $100.

She was mad about it and decided to go to court. Well, the officer showed up. When they got before the judge, the officer told him he had clocked her in a silver Lexus (if memory serves) going 10 or 15 miles over the speed limit. Guess what? Her car is a 2003 blue Honda Civic.

Want to guess how that case turned out? The asshole judge said the officer was right and slapped her with court costs too, something like $250 total. It doesn't pay to fight the tickets. You're not going to win if the officer shows up and the very idea that you're going to "hold out" on paying something trivial like a ticket is comical. Have fun with that. As others have said, if you're willing to go rot in jail for something this stupid, you do have serious issues.
 
Raizinman said:
A retired police officer who is your friend. I wonder if he would lie for you? Hmmm...????
Courts know that friends lie for each other and it doesn't matter who your friend is. A third party person, being the actual police officer will be believed and you will be fined. Happens everyday. Your best to get off your high horse and just pay your fine like everyone else. It's much cheaper and less aggrivating. Most Pro'se litigants either drop their case midway, or hire an attorney for thousands out of principle. Now, you have the option of losing twice, in Court and with your attorney.
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Hell, practically everyone who comes in front of the court lies. Why would a judge expect the OP to be any different than the other 50,000 people who show up to fight stupid traffic tickets every year?
 
PrinceofWands said:
That's not exactly true. There are three options for the judge to consider:

1) Officers are always trustworthy and I actually committed the offense. However, if officers are trustworthy then we have an irreconcilable conflict with the two officers. Logically at least one must be incorrect, so no matter what this option provides no solution. If you choose to 'cancel out' the two officers then I'm the only evidence remaining, and so by preponderance standards I should win the verdict.

2) Officers are trustworthy but human and make mistakes. By this option either the citing officer or my witness officer made a mistake. This SHOULD come down to who is more likely in error - the one in the car with me from the beginning, or the one who managed to supposedly catch a glimpse of a seatbelt on a passenger in a moving car traveling perpendicularly to his own vehicle through traffic well ahead of him. It SHOULD result in a judgment in my favor.

3) Officers are not inherently trustworthy so there's no defensible evidence that I committed the offense. In this case, obviously, there wouldn't even BE a citation system because if officers are no more trustworthy than citizens it's usually going to come down to he said/she said. In this case, however, I have more people on my side, giving me the preponderance of evidence regardless.
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The huge flaw in all this "officer equivalency" of yours is that a retired, out of state officer in a civilian position is not equivalent, in the judge's eyes, to the on duty, arresting officer.

It's also not unlike NFL replays. There has to be convincing and overriding evidence that the original call was wrong. Civilian testimony, even from a retired officer, will almost never trump the arresting officer's testimony.

Sad, but true.
 
JulesMaximus said:
Honestly, I've never been pulled over and cited for something I haven't done though. I've even been pulled over and took my seatbelt off before the cop got to my door to get my wallet out for him but he took my word for it that I had just removed my belt to get my wallet.

Some cops are dicks...some aren't. Much like the average person you'll meet in everyday life.
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Well aren't you special. You look like Rush Limbaugh or something?
 
IndyColtsFan said:
Several years ago, my wife (girlfriend at the time) got a speeding ticket. I don't remember the amount, but let's say it was $100.

She was mad about it and decided to go to court. Well, the officer showed up. When they got before the judge, the officer told him he had clocked her in a silver Lexus (if memory serves) going 10 or 15 miles over the speed limit. Guess what? Her car is a 2003 blue Honda Civic.

Want to guess how that case turned out? The asshole judge said the officer was right and slapped her with court costs too, something like $250 total. It doesn't pay to fight the tickets. You're not going to win if the officer shows up and the very idea that you're going to "hold out" on paying something trivial like a ticket is comical. Have fun with that. As others have said, if you're willing to go rot in jail for something this stupid, you do have serious issues.
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That's why I only plead by written declaration. The officer doesn't get paid to write a report on his claims, as opposed to court where he gets paid overtime for showing up.
That and no court costs.
 
FREEEEEEEEEDOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Case dismissed. Never even had to get into credibility or mention that my witness was a police officer. WOOT!

I'm honestly not sure what to do...not used to coming out of court without my butt hurting.
 
PrinceofWands said:
FREEEEEEEEEDOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Case dismissed. Never even had to get into credibility or mention that my witness was a police officer. WOOT!

I'm honestly not sure what to do...not used to coming out of court without my butt hurting.
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More details plz.

What did the officer say and why did the judge take your word/witnesses' over the officer?

oh and CONGRATS!
 
PrinceofWands said:
FREEEEEEEEEDOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Case dismissed. Never even had to get into credibility or mention that my witness was a police officer. WOOT!

I'm honestly not sure what to do...not used to coming out of court without my butt hurting.
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Imagine that - the system worked! 😉
 
astroidea said:
More details plz.

What did the officer say and why did the judge take your word/witnesses' over the officer?
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Officers don't show in WA traffic court unless subpoenad to be questioned.

I gave my statement, basically: "I'm very safe, after the military, security, and working in an ER and as a first responder I know too well the importance of safety so I don't make errors like that. I have no history of traffic infractions. The citing officer was stopped at the turn signal behind two cars, looking across 3 lanes of moving cross traffic, up into the cab of a truck across the driver to see me...all at sundown with the shadows playing the way they do at the lake. Moreover he never saw me put my seatbelt on...so he could see the strap wasn't there through all that, but couldn't see me move around the cab to put it on before he got up to my window. That seems unlikely. I don't believe it was malicious, just an honest mistake."

Then my witness said basically the same thing, and that we both had our seatbelts on the entire time and always do.

The judge said "I find you both to be very credible witnesses and I find the infraction not committed."

That was that.

As a matter of fact, 4 of the 5 people who were heard before me had theirs dismissed as well, two with far more questionable cases than mine. Either the judge was in a good mood or it's the week for holiday forgiveness.
 
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Not only am I happy with the outcome, the county had a change of heart after Nickels got ganked for millions in Seattle for messing with firearm laws and reinstated the lockboxes for citizen weapons. So now I don't even have to sue over that. Is a damn good day.
 
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PrinceofWands said:
The judge said "I find you both to be very credible witnesses and I find the infraction not committed."
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WHAT!!

BOGUS!!!

I'm gonna call the judge and request an appeal!

He obviously doesn't know how well a liar you are!!! He needs to place you on a Psych Hold!!

:twisted: 😛
 
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