Fair to criticize Bernie for not practicing what he preaches?

[repoman0]

The average middle class American does not have 2M in their retirement plan.

I never said average, I said one who was moderately responsible with their savings, which would obviously not be penalized under any tax plan. Your argument is nothing but a straw man.

I saw your post before the edit about your degree in "economy" ... apparently it was worthless if you don't understand tax brackets.

 

[sandorski]

So how did he end up with 2 million in retirement savings + 3 houses? Do you think he would be able to get that if he had paid 70% on his income?

He and his wife earned it over many decades. If he was part of the 1% with an Income warranting the highest tax bracket, he would be far wealthier than he is.

 

[omega3]

I think all of you should read his plan alot more careful. He wants higher taxes on households with an income of 200K and higher. That's not just the top 1%.

 

[Jaskalas]

Is it fair to criticize Bernie Sanders for not practicing what he preaches?

If Sanders could dictate his policy, he'd be paying more in taxes. The policy he fights for would directly affect him. More importantly, it would make the lives of many of the most vulnerable Americans better. Those who fight to keep people starving will deflect and divert from what truly matters. As they're certainly not going to be honest and tell you they want to strip you of everything and leave you for dead in the wasteland of crony capitalism.

Whether you want to divert in order to hurt people, or join us for better policy is up to you.

 

[omega3]

I never said average, I said one who was moderately responsible with their savings, which would obviously not be penalized under any tax plan.

How much you think should one earn netto per year in order to have 2 million in retirement savings by the time you're 70, so keeping in mind all expenses and owning 2 houses. And how much should they put aside each year cause you mention responsible savings. Don't think it's that easy for most middle class Americans.

 

[sandorski]

I think all of you should read his plan alot more careful. He wants higher taxes on households with an income of 200K and higher. That's not just the top 1%.

Ok...and?

 

[edcoolio]

Ok...and?

Bernie Sanders aside, I do not wish to pay even more in outrageous taxes. On the contrary, I want to pay less.

I shudder to think, when I do the calculations, how many people I directly support through taxes.

 

[omega3]

Bernie Sanders aside, I do not wish to pay even more in outrageous taxes. On the contrary, I want to pay less.

I shudder to think, when I do the calculations, how many people I directly support through taxes.

What's your tax rate perhaps and how many people do you think you support thru your taxes?
Either way, I agree with you.

 

[edcoolio]

What's your tax rate perhaps and how many people do you think you support thru your taxes?
Either way, I agree with you.

It is not appropriate to communicate this in a public forum to unknown entities.

However, I am quite positive that I support a minimum of one full square block of families in Detroit. Guaranteed.

What a waste.

 

[Jaskalas]

I think all of you should read his plan alot more careful. He wants higher taxes on households with an income of 200K and higher. That's not just the top 1%.

Imagine a world where your children no longer pay rent or mortgage. Because they had the funds to outright buy their house. Imagine a world in which they are not strapped down by medical bills. Where, with a partner, they'd have a passive $2k/mo family income regardless of employment. Then tell me if you'd honestly feel bad for such an opportunity. That you'd reject such a future for them, all so you could pay lower taxes.

Would you rather Wall Street keep that money, so they can invest if off shore?
Maybe at some point you'll believe that your family deserves better than mere scraps.

 

[sandorski]

Bernie Sanders aside, I do not wish to pay even more in outrageous taxes. On the contrary, I want to pay less.

I shudder to think, when I do the calculations, how many people I directly support through taxes.

ok

 

[pmv]

Is it fair to criticize Bernie Sanders for not practicing what he preaches? The core of his message is that he wants the top 1% to share their wealth with those less fortunate.

Now, he himself belongs to the top 1%, is a millionaire (being a senator pays well even without taking bribes) and even owns 3 houses. If he so strongly believes in what he preaches, why doesn't he set an example by for example selling one of those houses and donating the profits to a charity?

The trouble with this is it seems like it's one half of the trap that means any critic of the system can be dismissed. Basically, if you happen to be doing personally well under it, then you are a hypocrite (or a 'champagne socialist'). If you are doing badly then you are just a loser engaging in 'the politics of envy'. Either way what you say can be discounted.

In the context of a housing shortage, having multiple houses might be a bit questionable, but my impression is that the US has a vast amount of space for housing, the population density is very low indeed, about an eighth of the UK, and a twelfth of England, so I'm not convinced it's that big a deal in the US.

Plus how many Senators only have one home? Strikes me its the sort of job where multiple residencies are necessary. A Senator is not going to live in a shack, under any system.

It's true though that one of capitalism's greatest strengths is it's ability to make its most capable critics wealthy. As long as it can do that it's probably fairly safe. If it stops being able to do that it's probably on the way out.

 

[mikeymikec]

It is not appropriate to communicate this in a public forum to unknown entities.

However, I am quite positive that I support a minimum of one full square block of families in Detroit. Guaranteed.

What a waste.

Most of the time I'm thinking that our 'civilised' societies have a long way to go. When I read comments like yours I'm amazed that we got this far.

 

[Fenixgoon]

So how did he end up with 2 million in retirement savings + 3 houses? Do you think he would be able to get that if he had paid 70% on his income?

someone making 80k/year from 25-70 and investing 20% of that in a 401k would have over $4M at the age of 70 assuming 5% growth and no change in income.

so @pauldun170 has a perfectly reasonable argument. OTOH, no one has made a reasonable counter-argument. just repeating the question "how is he a millionaire with 3 houses?" does anyone also want to ask how magnets work in addition to compound interest?

The average middle class American does not have 2M in their retirement plan.

most americans also lives paycheck to paycheck. which is obviously not conducive to any sort of retirement savings. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/24/most-americans-live-paycheck-to-paycheck.html

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I still don't get it, to my knowledge Bernie says high earners should pay more in taxes. To have that position it's required to be low income?
Also I believe Bernie is toward the bottom of Senators wealth but I could be wrong about that.

 

[Bitek]

Exactly my point.

But the 3 houses he own seem the most hypocrite to me. If he so deeply believes in what he preaches, what's holding him back from selling only 1 of those houses and donating those profits to those less fortunate?

Are you confusing him with Pope Francis?

 

[Bitek]

The average middle class American does not have 2M in their retirement plan.

The average American doesn't save enough money, so perhaps that's why this concept is so mind boggling to you. Americans save about half of what typical Euros or Aussies save. Considering we have such a weak safety net, the savings rate needs to be much higher.

Go see a financial advisor before you end up having to eat cat food in retirement. You are awfully confused about all of this.

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/economics/household-saving-rates-forecasts_2074384x-table7

 

[imported_tajmahal]

The average middle class American does not have 2M in their retirement plan.

Pretty amazing that the lefties in this forum think the average American has millions in assets along with a platinum retirement plan and several houses. It really points out just how little they know about the average American family or just how much they lie about it.

 

[pmv]

Pretty amazing that the lefties in this forum think the average American has millions in assets along with a platinum retirement plan and several houses. It really points out just how little they know about the average American family or just how much they lie about it.

Pretty amazing that so many of your posts just consist of you making up random nonsense.
What does the average Senator have?

 

[pauldun170]

someone making 80k/year from 25-70 and investing 20% of that in a 401k would have over $4M at the age of 70 assuming 5% growth and no change in income.

so @pauldun170 has a perfectly reasonable argument. OTOH, no one has made a reasonable counter-argument. just repeating the question "how is he a millionaire with 3 houses?" does anyone also want to ask how magnets work in addition to compound interest?



most americans also lives paycheck to paycheck. which is obviously not conducive to any sort of retirement savings. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/24/most-americans-live-paycheck-to-paycheck.html

From what I've seen, the Sanders own a home in Vermont (bought for 405K in 2009)

A townhouse in Washington D.C purchased for 490K in 2007 (Mortgaged) and a recently purchased, 1,800 square feet vacation home (575K obviously there is a mortgage on it) in Vermont for the family.

I think he also owns a rental property worth around 170K

Historically, the Sanders are upper middle class in terms of networth and considering how long they have both been working and positions they have held they are fairly mainstream.
His book earned him some nice coin this year. So that probably doubled his net worth.

 

[Sunburn74]

I don't give a crap about charity. Charity is a crappy and fairly unreliable system for ensuring longstanding positive change within a community. I care about people paying taxes and taxes used efficiently and appropriately. That's what matters.

 

[kage69]

How much money Bernie and his wife have in the bank, well that matters.

Dump profiting from his position and now about to swing himself a beefy tax cut? Meh.

 

[pmv]

Pretty amazing that the lefties in this forum think the average American has millions in assets along with a platinum retirement plan and several houses. It really points out just how little they know about the average American family or just how much they lie about it.

Love your implication that everyone to the left of you is so wealthy they are out of touch. I think it's a racing certainty that if it suited your rhetorical purposes you'd be asserting how much better off you are than all the leftists.

The trick is laughably obvious. There's no income level a leftist can have that a conservative won't either declare them to be too plebian and unsuccessful to be qualified to have opinions, or to be too rich and out of touch to do so.

It's an obvious defense-mechanism from those who want to be able to dismiss opposing views without having to address them.

 

[edcoolio]

Most of the time I'm thinking that our 'civilised' societies have a long way to go. When I read comments like yours I'm amazed that we got this far.

Your comments do not make sense.

What, specifically, about the comment did you dislike?

 

[Bitek]

Pretty amazing that the lefties in this forum think the average American has millions in assets along with a platinum retirement plan and several houses. It really points out just how little they know about the average American family or just how much they lie about it.

Oh look, financial wisdom from the party of fiscal responsibility.

Oh please tell us more. Tell us that one where deficit funded tax cuts for billionaires makes middle class people rich. Or maybe the one where the stock market cancels out the national debt. Or maybe the tale of all the farmers being wiped out with the estate taxes, and it's totally not about passing extra billions to the Trump kids.

Enjoy your retirement: