Fair to criticize Bernie for not practicing what he preaches?

[pmv]

You have a seriously flawed concept of Americans, or at least conservative Americans. We don’t expect capitalism to make us rich unless we do the things that make people rich: make a better mousetrap, work harder than everyone else, sacrifice now to build wealth. We just don’t assume that people who do get rich had some sort of unfair break the rest of us can’t get.

Well, Americans are of course not a homogeneous group. But the anger that led to the election of Trump appears to me to have come from precisely that frustration.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You have a seriously flawed concept of Americans, or at least conservative Americans. We don’t expect capitalism to make us rich unless we do the things that make people rich: make a better mousetrap, work harder than everyone else, sacrifice now to build wealth. We just don’t assume that people who do get rich had some sort of unfair break the rest of us can’t get.

Lol, please.

 

[brycejones]

Full disclosure I haven't waded thru the entire thread.

Why can't someone who has more wealth than most not say taxes on high income people/companies are too low?
Why can't a high earner say low earners need a better deal?

I scanned it and it boils down to the OP is an idiot and reasons.

 

[brandonbull]

Where did Bernie say the 1% should Share a significant portion of their wealth with the poor?
Answer he never did. His point is the income gap between the rich and poor is too high and policies should be changed to reduce it.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/income-and-wealth-inequality/

Sort of sounds like sharing portions of their wealth unless there is another way to close the gap.

 

[fskimospy]

Is it fair to criticize Bernie Sanders for not practicing what he preaches? The core of his message is that he wants the top 1% to share their wealth with those less fortunate.

Now, he himself belongs to the top 1%, is a millionaire (being a senator pays well even without taking bribes) and even owns 3 houses. If he so strongly believes in what he preaches, why doesn't he set an example by for example selling one of those houses and donating the profits to a charity?

He wants to change income inequality through government policy, not charitable donations. He is exactly as hypocritical for not donating money as if his preferred tax policies were in effect as someone who favors striking Iran is for not engaging in a one man commando attack on the country. ie: not at all.

 

[Jaskalas]

Maybe. You won’t really know unless you get to know them. Might be some wonderful people quite worth supporting.

Maybe this nation, as a whole, needs universal support at a fundamental level.

Then the tribalists can stop bickering over who gets what.

 

[bshole]

He wants to change income inequality through government policy, not charitable donations. He is exactly as hypocritical for not donating money as if his preferred tax policies were in effect as someone who favors striking Iran is for not engaging in a one man commando attack on the country. ie: not at all.

Disagree a little bit. One of those activities involves murdering citizens in a sovereign nation. If you are going to call for overseas butchery for no apparent American interest, you and yours should be the ones fighting. Our government is drowning in a sea of chicken hawks who place no value on the lives of non-Americans.

My opinion would change if a legit American interest was involved but that is rarely the case any more.

 

[J.Wilkins]

You have a seriously flawed concept of Americans, or at least conservative Americans. We don’t expect capitalism to make us rich unless we do the things that make people rich: make a better mousetrap, work harder than everyone else, sacrifice now to build wealth. We just don’t assume that people who do get rich had some sort of unfair break the rest of us can’t get.

That is most certainly not true at all. You have the poorest people from the poorest states voting against their own interests for no other reason than ideology. This time around it's because of immigrants but the last few times they voted it was just because they are either stupid or ... well clearly they are stupid.

If you're 45 years old and living in a trailer and you haven't held a job for two decades then guess what, you're not going to make it big no matter how much you vote for the conservatives.

The problem with the policy is that it doesn't safeguard jack shit for the future, it's a happy go lucky spend with your friends bullshit kind of policy that I've only ever seen in nations like Venezuela or former Soviet Russia. It's not in the least bit capitalist when you are essentially just doing everything to help your friends and yourself and it's not something that a leader would get away with in any other nation than the US, Venezuela or former Soviet Russia.

 

[J.Wilkins]

Bernie Sanders isn't even a socialist anyway. I know he's used the word, but he's clearly a leftish social-democrat. The idea that one can get worked up at 'hypocrisy' for someone who (a) is only a very moderate leftist and (b) is probably at best about as well off as a typical US legislator, strikes me as absurd. And thus a cynical political tactic.

There's also the question of background. I don't think the guy was born to privilege. I gather his background was quite ordinary. The people I personally do feel a bit skeptical about are those who combine being hard-left with coming from a privileged background. Neither applies to Sanders.

Given that he's praised Soviet Russia, Venezuela and Castro's Cuba as good examples for economic policies I agree, he's not a socialist... He, like Corbyn is an old state communist.

 

[fskimospy]

Disagree a little bit. One of those activities involves murdering citizens in a sovereign nation. If you are going to call for overseas butchery for no apparent American interest, you and yours should be the ones fighting. Our government is drowning in a sea of chicken hawks who place no value on the lives of non-Americans.

My opinion would change if a legit American interest was involved but that is rarely the case any more.

Why does that matter though? I'm not saying attacking Iran would be smart or moral, I'm just saying if someone is going to argue that advocating for collective action mandates individual action there are quite a few Americans who have some invading to do.

 

[J.Wilkins]

Disagree a little bit. One of those activities involves murdering citizens in a sovereign nation. If you are going to call for overseas butchery for no apparent American interest, you and yours should be the ones fighting. Our government is drowning in a sea of chicken hawks who place no value on the lives of non-Americans.

My opinion would change if a legit American interest was involved but that is rarely the case any more.

You missed his point entirely.

Should have caught it flying over your head.

 

[pmv]

Given that he's praised Soviet Russia, Venezuela and Castro's Cuba as good examples for economic policies I agree, he's not a socialist... He, like Corbyn is an old state communist.

Nah, hardly. His policy positions and past votes and statements suggest no such thing. He voted for the US invasion of Afghanistan, for example. He's explicitly disagreed with state ownership of the means of production, so that would rather rule out 'old state communist'. He's noticeably slightly to the right of Corbyn (he'd pretty much have to be, being a US politician).

But I get the impression you think anyone to the left of Clegg is a communist.

 

[Victorian Gray]

OP is apparently no longer concerned about Bernie so the thread can probably be shut down now.

 

[theeedude]

Trump's base will be automated away and fleeced to give profits tax cuts to the rich, so they don't have to worry about having a nest egg.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

OP is apparently no longer concerned about Bernie so the thread can probably be shut down now.

In that case shut down every thread ever started by phokus.

 

[Victorian Gray]

In that case shut down every thread ever started by phokus.

Did you get your silver shirt yet?

 

[HTFOff]

Is it fair to criticize Bernie Sanders for not practicing what he preaches? The core of his message is that he wants the top 1% to share their wealth with those less fortunate.

Now, he himself belongs to the top 1%, is a millionaire (being a senator pays well even without taking bribes) and even owns 3 houses. If he so strongly believes in what he preaches, why doesn't he set an example by for example selling one of those houses and donating the profits to a charity?

Is it fair? Who cares. Leave him be, I want sanders around as the face on the DNC for as long as physically possible.

 

[edcoolio]

Maybe. You won’t really know unless you get to know them. Might be some wonderful people quite worth supporting.

You are, of course, correct.

However, he/she was asking about personal wealth/tax brackets.

I have learned over the years to keep that type of information private, more for personal safety than anything else.

 

[Jaskalas]

Trump's base will be automated away and fleeced to give profits tax cuts to the rich, so they don't have to worry about having a nest egg.

Then show them a real nest egg. One whole enough to pay cash for a house. Tell them it's the end of rent and mortgages for the poor. Make them believe your policy is for them. The growing majority left behind by the economy will join us in a necessary revolution.

Trump's base will be our base. We just have to seize them (and the initiative) after automation breaks them.
Trump is going to fail them. Let us show them we're not Trump.

 

[theeedude]

Then show them a real nest egg. One whole enough to pay cash for a house. Tell them it's the end of rent and mortgages for the poor. Make them believe your policy is for them. The growing majority left behind by the economy will join us in a necessary revolution.

Trump's base will be our base. We just have to seize them (and the initiative) after automation breaks them.
Trump is going to fail them. Let us show them we're not Trump.

No, thanks, I am not accepting the burden of showing them anything. Life will show them. If they want to vote to screw themselves out of health insurance to give me a tax cut, I'll just take it, no problem. If they want to vote to screw themselves out of worker protections to make my stocks go up more, fine. It's their choice.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Is it fair? Who cares. Leave him be, I want sanders around as the face on the DNC for as long as physically possible.

He's not, wasnt, and won't be.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Then show them a real nest egg. One whole enough to pay cash for a house. Tell them it's the end of rent and mortgages for the poor. Make them believe your policy is for them. The growing majority left behind by the economy will join us in a necessary revolution.

Trump's base will be our base. We just have to seize them (and the initiative) after automation breaks them.
Trump is going to fail them. Let us show them we're not Trump.

They obviously just didn't pray enough.

 

[Timorous]

How much you think should one earn netto per year in order to have 2 million in retirement savings by the time you're 70, so keeping in mind all expenses and owning 2 houses. And how much should they put aside each year cause you mention responsible savings. Don't think it's that easy for most middle class Americans.

About $5,000 a year in savings assuming the following.
1) you start at 20 years old
2) you put the $5,000 at the start of every year into your index fund
3) the 7% inflation adjusted gains holds true in the next 50 years in the same way it has for the past 30.

that will get you to the future equivalent of $2,000,000, give or take, in a retirement fund. It is far less than you think thanks to compound interest, especially if you start young.

Funny thing is that you gain $1M in the last 10 years of saving.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Let's worry about that while the actual wealthy running this country destroys us, then moves on to another

 

[hal2kilo]

He's not, wasnt, and won't be.

What is it about the state of knowledge of people who think Bernie is a Democrat.