F-22. The most advanced fighter the world has ever seen.

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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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91TTZ

You apparently are correct w/ respect to the 16.
From talking with some pilots, the aircraft is able to be flown with battle damage.
The 16 has had the FCS drop off line and not cause a crash.

The 22 crashed due to a FCS reset.

From experience, I know the 15 will fly with extensive damage.

From what I have seen & heard on the 22, I am leary of it able to fly with damage.

This is the point that I was originally intending on making.

A 22 in war games is one thing, when Murphy joins the game, the rules change. At this point the 22 has not been tested with battle damage.
 

beemercer

Senior member
Feb 10, 2006
817
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0
Originally posted by: silverpig
Originally posted by: beemercer
Originally posted by: silverpig
Seems like a strategically deployed EMP could turn one into a flying brick... and those don't have to be directional.

Besides detonating a nuke in the upper atmosphere, how do you propose to create a EMP. It would also seem to me that whoever sets off the EMp would be at risk of damaging their own assets if the F-22 are in their airspace.

There are tons of ways to make an EMP. Just google if you want to. The Iranians have a lot of assets out in the middle of the desert?

Isn't the entire country out in the desert, I kid I kid :p.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_e...sia/iran_petroleum_facilities_2004.jpg

From this map it looks like almost all of their oil/gas assets and many of their cities are in the south, right in the path of US aircraft coming from Saudi Arabia. If they set off a [arge non directional EMP device while US aircraft where traveling over that area in the south, Iran would risk crippling a city or part of its oil/gas system.

Now of course if US aircraft come from the east, there isn't much there for the Iranian's to be worried about.

Sorry if my original question came off as confrontational, didn't mean for it to be that way :).
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,785
6,187
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What would be interesting is if the latest Russian air defenses, the Tor-1M and the S300 can shoot it down. It would be easy to check because the Greeks have those systems.
 

KillerCharlie

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2005
3,691
68
91
Originally posted by: senseamp
What would be interesting is if the latest Russian air defenses, the Tor-1M and the S300 can shoot it down. It would be easy to check because the Greeks have those systems.

Most people don't quite understand the advantage of the F-22. It is not an absolute advantage of not being able to get shot down while other planes can. The F-22's advantage is relative; though it may be able to be shot down, it is MUCH less likely to get shot down than any other airplane.
 

dug777

Lifer
Oct 13, 2004
24,778
4
0
Originally posted by: KillerCharlie
Originally posted by: senseamp
What would be interesting is if the latest Russian air defenses, the Tor-1M and the S300 can shoot it down. It would be easy to check because the Greeks have those systems.

Most people don't quite understand the advantage of the F-22. It is not an absolute advantage of not being able to get shot down while other planes can. The F-22's advantage is relative; though it may be able to be shot down, it is MUCH less likely to get shot down than any other airplane.

I'd be interested to see where you get that data? Or is that just a blanket statement you've decided to make for our benefit, given your decades of involvement in fighter development and loss statistics?





;)
 

KillerCharlie

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2005
3,691
68
91
The radar signature is certainly the lowest of any fighter out there. From everything I've heard the electronic/radar/ECM systems are easily the best out there as well. I work in the civil transport sector, but I do have a couple friends that work (one used to, one still does) on the F-22. They don't tell me a damn thing though.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Nice aircraft

wonder if a Russian S-300 or S-400 system can take one out.

My favt. is still the SU-27 and F-15 , but no doubt the F-22 would own them both
 

dug777

Lifer
Oct 13, 2004
24,778
4
0
Originally posted by: KillerCharlie
The radar signature is certainly the lowest of any fighter out there. From everything I've heard the electronic/radar/ECM systems are easily the best out there as well. I work in the civil transport sector, but I do have a couple friends that work (one used to, one still does) on the F-22. They don't tell me a damn thing though.

i'm just being an argumentative ass, and i do appreciate your input :eek:

 

KillerCharlie

Diamond Member
Aug 21, 2005
3,691
68
91
Originally posted by: Aimster

My favt. is still the SU-27 and F-15 , but no doubt the F-22 would own them both

Same here... until they start putting F-22s in video games so I can fly them.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,785
6,187
126
Originally posted by: Aimster
Nice aircraft

wonder if a Russian S-300 or S-400 system can take one out.

My favt. is still the SU-27 and F-15 , but no doubt the F-22 would own them both

S-300 or S-400 will probably make mincemeat of the F-22, since they were designed to shoot down very low radar signature targets like missile warheads, but they are very expensive missiles, and Iran doesn't have them. China does though.
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,709
11
81
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: silverpig
Originally posted by: beemercer
Originally posted by: silverpig
Seems like a strategically deployed EMP could turn one into a flying brick... and those don't have to be directional.

Besides detonating a nuke in the upper atmosphere, how do you propose to create a EMP. It would also seem to me that whoever sets off the EMp would be at risk of damaging their own assets if the F-22 are in their airspace.

There are tons of ways to make an EMP. Just google if you want to. The Iranians have a lot of assets out in the middle of the desert?


Almost all military aircraft's electronics are shielded against EMP. Nothing's perfect, but it's not going to be easy taking them out.

If you can see it, you can fvck it up with directed energy :)


Remember those guys who got in trouble for pointing a suped-up laser pointer at a passenger jet? Sure, hitting a fighter jet much higher and faster than a passenger plane would be harder, but these guys did it by hand...
 

novasatori

Diamond Member
Feb 27, 2003
3,851
1
0
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
91TTZ

You apparently are correct w/ respect to the 16.
From talking with some pilots, the aircraft is able to be flown with battle damage.
The 16 has had the FCS drop off line and not cause a crash.

The 22 crashed due to a FCS reset.

From experience, I know the 15 will fly with extensive damage.

From what I have seen & heard on the 22, I am leary of it able to fly with damage.

This is the point that I was originally intending on making.

A 22 in war games is one thing, when Murphy joins the game, the rules change. At this point the 22 has not been tested with battle damage.

I believe, and I may not be correct, the F-16 has the digital FLCS but then it also has a very primitive analog or mechanical FLCS that can come online after the digital system and backups are inoperable. This last system IIRC can only control the plane in very basic maneuvers in two axes at a time. I was told this a long time ago though so it is probably not entirely accurate, but its basically how I understood it to work.

So I would guess the F-22 has some sort of mechanical backup that can at least give basic controls back to the pilot to RTB and land.
 

soydios

Platinum Member
Mar 12, 2006
2,708
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wow...those are some...astounding...abilities

example: the F-15 has shot down over 100 aircraft in combat, either in the hands of U.S. or Israeli pilots. Not one has been lost in combat. As a test, one F-22 went up against 6 F-15s. The F-15s never even *saw* the F-22.

Hopefully this will act as a deterrent of sorts to Iran and North Korea, because war with either of those countries would make Iraq look like a sandbox.
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
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Originally posted by: soydios
wow...those are some...astounding...abilities

example: the F-15 has shot down over 100 aircraft in combat, either in the hands of U.S. or Israeli pilots. Not one has been lost in combat. As a test, one F-22 went up against 6 F-15s. The F-15s never even *saw* the F-22.

Yup, that's the advantage that having a powerful radar, long range missiles, and a low radar cross section will give you.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
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Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: soydios
wow...those are some...astounding...abilities

example: the F-15 has shot down over 100 aircraft in combat, either in the hands of U.S. or Israeli pilots. Not one has been lost in combat. As a test, one F-22 went up against 6 F-15s. The F-15s never even *saw* the F-22.

Yup, that's the advantage that having a powerful radar, long range missiles, and a low radar cross section will give you.
When the radar is activated, the other aircraft can also detect the owner.

Best advantage is that the F22 can operate jointly with an AWACS type system to guide it until it can launch.

Stealth only works if one does not yell out that you are hiding in the bushes.

 

foghorn67

Lifer
Jan 3, 2006
11,885
53
91
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: soydios
wow...those are some...astounding...abilities

example: the F-15 has shot down over 100 aircraft in combat, either in the hands of U.S. or Israeli pilots. Not one has been lost in combat. As a test, one F-22 went up against 6 F-15s. The F-15s never even *saw* the F-22.

Yup, that's the advantage that having a powerful radar, long range missiles, and a low radar cross section will give you.
When the radar is activated, the other aircraft can also detect the owner.

Best advantage is that the F22 can operate jointly with an AWACS type system to guide it until it can launch.

Stealth only works if one does not yell out that you are hiding in the bushes.
The Raptors have an encrypted data link between each other. One Raptor will fly miles behind with the radar on full active. The others will be off. Once the active Raptor acquires a target, the data is sent to the fire control of the other Raptors. The others won't see it coming. And the activated Raptor goes back to silent.
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,979
3
71
Originally posted by: WolverineGator
No need for experimenting. Just look at the real world. We're getting our butts kicked in Iraq now with AK47's and IEDs despite our massive firepower, technology, and air superiority.
Please tell me who is telling you we're getting our butts kicked? The voices in your head?
 

DivideBYZero

Lifer
May 18, 2001
24,117
2
0
Originally posted by: TehMac
Originally posted by: WolverineGator
No need for experimenting. Just look at the real world. We're getting our butts kicked in Iraq now with AK47's and IEDs despite our massive firepower, technology, and air superiority.
Please tell me who is telling you we're getting our butts kicked? The voices in your head?
?

Why is it taking four years then? Stuck for something to do? :p