[Extremetech] Nvidia’s GameWorks program usurps power from developers, end-users, AMD

[DiogoDX]

Is there any proof of this? Or are you people just taking blog posts as gospel?

I don't trust in extremetch but I trust in hardware.fr editor:

 

[96Firebird]

So bring the pitchforks to WB's doors!

And I don't Get why The author of That quote Feels the need To Capitalize random Letters.

 

[digitaldurandal]

In this thread I see a lot of speculation on both sides. We do not know why they refused to include AMD libraries, indeed we only have the author's word that it occurred.

I also see speculation as to why Nvidia has been preferred over AMD. I am going to give my experience - no speculation - as to why myself, a user who buys 2 dgpu's or more each year prefers Nvidia.

I was excited when AMD became more competitive FPS wise and purchased a 5870. I also purchased a 3rd monitor for eyefinity. I quickly found that out of the 3 features advertised on the box (eyefinity, power saving features for 2d, and overclockability) did not work correctly out of the box.

I had to disable the power saving features by using a hexeditor to altar the the on card software in order to stop experiencing issues with 3 monitors in 2d mode. This took me a good four hours of research to find out. AMD did not provide any information on this to the public and indeed - testing your card in the advertised setup would be recommended to most manufacturers.

Afterwards I found that my friend who I had purchased a 5770 was experiencing gray screens with a brand new card. A few searches confirmed that many people were.

Essentially, they had the opportunity to steal my business from Nvidia but issues with 5xxx cards soured my mouth.

I bought two 570s and two 670s since then. In those times I have thought about switching but the framepacing issues came to light and I decided to stick with Nvidia.

There may be a time when I give them another chance, but when I am buying 700+ worth of hardware each year I don't want to risk my purchase. If they had delivered a card to me that delivered on its advertised features (the very reason I bought it!) I would have likely purchased AMD products instead.

 

[Skurge]

So bring the pitchforks to WB's doors!

And I don't Get why The author of That quote Feels the need To Capitalize random Letters.

The same guys that kept AMD from using or implementing AA in their game? Seems like a recurring theme with these guys. It should ring some alarm bells. Refusing performance improvements from a GPU company is pretty daft. But whatever. WB aren't getting my money even though I'm using an NVIDIA GPU right now.

 

[SiliconWars]

To be blunt, both nVidia and AMD are trying to make games run better on their hardware. I just dont accept the apparent viewpoint of some on these forums that AMD is some knight in shining white armor trying to look out for gamers while MS/Intel/nVidia is some evil empire. They are all companies out to get a competitive edge on their competition and make money.

The difference is Intel and Nvidia attempt to do it by exclusionary practices. They pay devs to NOT use AMD features or disallow AMD the ability to optimize the game afterwards.

Show me one time where AMD has done this with Nvidia or Intel. Building specific hardware/software that doesn't work on your competitors is NOT the same thing. That is how you gain a fair advantage by innovation, which is exactly what Mantle is. Mantle does NOT exclude anyone else from making their own innovations or game optimizations, but Nvidia's libraries do.

That is the difference - one improves their own stuff while one hobbles the competitor.

 

[Lonbjerg]

The difference is Intel and Nvidia attempt to do it by exclusionary practices. They pay devs to NOT use AMD features or disallow AMD the ability to optimize the game afterwards.

Show me one time where AMD has done this with Nvidia or Intel. Building specific hardware/software that doesn't work on your competitors is NOT the same thing. That is how you gain a fair advantage by innovation, which is exactly what Mantle is. Mantle does NOT exclude anyone else from making their own innovations or game optimizations, but Nvidia's libraries do.

That is the difference - one improves their own stuff while one hobbles the competitor.

Så APEX has hobbled AMD how?
Or Gameworks?
Or PhysX?

Show me the evidence?
I bet you can't...

 

[SiliconWars]

Så APEX has hobbled AMD how?
Or Gameworks?
Or PhysX?

Show me the evidence?
I bet you can't...

Yes if you can't optimize a game because of your competitors libraries, that's you hobbled.

Nvidia can optimize it to their hearts content (no need when they already did to start with). AMD can't. How is this not hobbling your competitor?

 

[Anarchist420]

Is anybody really surprised by this? I guess Mantle supporters are okay with it as long enough engines use it, and because Microsoft's DirectX is "bad/slow". Now all we need is Intel to come up with their own API and start throwing money at developers to not use anything else. Then we'll need an AMD board for one game, an nVidia board for another, and Intel onboard for the third. Welcome back 1990s, we missed you.

microsoft has done nothing but create hardware for ATi/AMD since 2002 when the R300 came out. in a world without IP, we would be using open standards. open standards would force the ihvs to be the best they could be... they would also work together if they hoped to thrive.

anyway, i hope gameworks ultimately causes AMD to leave the PC graphics business because they have created nearly nothing and pretty much gone only with microsoft's bare specification. the few things that they have invented ultimately set us back like more than one core on a CPU die... intel only followed because they were protected by patent and knew they could get by with making only minor changes to AMD's multi core design rather than putting in some effort to make single core CPUs better.

the only good thing R300 and the x1k series did was a more orthogonal pipeline than the competition (and R300 had a properly rotated grid sampling pattern for AA while the Geforce FX didnt), but when the rest of the image looks like crap then AA doesnt really matter.

 

[AnandThenMan]

microsoft has done nothing but create hardware for ATi/AMD since 2002 when the R300 came out. in a world without IP, we would be using open standards. open standards would force the ihvs to be the best they could be... they would also work together if they hoped to thrive.

anyway, i hope gameworks ultimately causes AMD to leave the PC graphics business because they have created nearly nothing and pretty much gone only with microsoft's bare specification. the few things that they have invented ultimately set us back like more than one core on a CPU die... intel only followed because they were protected by patent and knew they could get by with making only minor changes to AMD's multi core design rather than putting in some effort to make single core CPUs better.

the only good thing R300 and the x1k series did was a more orthogonal pipeline than the competition (and R300 had a properly rotated grid sampling pattern for AA while the Geforce FX didnt), but when the rest of the image looks like crap then AA doesnt really matter.

What in the.....

 

[NTMBK]

microsoft has done nothing but create hardware for ATi/AMD since 2002 when the R300 came out. in a world without IP, we would be using open standards. open standards would force the ihvs to be the best they could be... they would also work together if they hoped to thrive.

anyway, i hope gameworks ultimately causes AMD to leave the PC graphics business because they have created nearly nothing and pretty much gone only with microsoft's bare specification. the few things that they have invented ultimately set us back like more than one core on a CPU die... intel only followed because they were protected by patent and knew they could get by with making only minor changes to AMD's multi core design rather than putting in some effort to make single core CPUs better.

the only good thing R300 and the x1k series did was a more orthogonal pipeline than the competition (and R300 had a properly rotated grid sampling pattern for AA while the Geforce FX didnt), but when the rest of the image looks like crap then AA doesnt really matter.

Go back to P&N, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Yes if you can't optimize a game because of your competitors libraries, that's you hobbled.

Nvidia can optimize it to their hearts content (no need when they already did to start with). AMD can't. How is this not hobbling your competitor?

How dows APEX, PhysX and Gameworks prevent AMD from optimizing a game?
You know you have this unfortunate habbit of making wild claims with nothing to back your claims up...will you deliver this time?

 

[AnandThenMan]

How dows APEX, PhysX and Gameworks prevent AMD from optimizing a game?
You know you have this unfortunate habbit of making wild claims with nothing to back your claims up...will you deliver this time?

Did you try reading the article at all?

 

[Lonbjerg]

Did you try reading the article at all?

Yes I did.
Quite the troll piece...lacking in documentation.
No better than some posts in this thread.

But you can not give the answer...and tries with a fallacy-question?
I fail to see any arguments, as usual.

 

[Gloomy]

microsoft has done nothing but create hardware for ATi/AMD since 2002 when the R300 came out. in a world without IP, we would be using open standards. open standards would force the ihvs to be the best they could be... they would also work together if they hoped to thrive.

anyway, i hope gameworks ultimately causes AMD to leave the PC graphics business because they have created nearly nothing and pretty much gone only with microsoft's bare specification. the few things that they have invented ultimately set us back like more than one core on a CPU die... intel only followed because they were protected by patent and knew they could get by with making only minor changes to AMD's multi core design rather than putting in some effort to make single core CPUs better.

the only good thing R300 and the x1k series did was a more orthogonal pipeline than the competition (and R300 had a properly rotated grid sampling pattern for AA while the Geforce FX didnt), but when the rest of the image looks like crap then AA doesnt really matter.

This is satire, right?

 

[5150Joker]

I have no reason to disbelieve the AMD rep.. .

If you believe everything a rep trying to market his product says then why would anyone take your argument seriously?

 

[AtenRa]

This is satire, right?

This is Tragic, Aeschylus could write a play for it.

 

[OCGuy]

This is just sad at this point.

 

[Lonbjerg]

I wonder why this has AMD scared, since they have Mantle...something is missing from the puzzle.

 

[blackened23]

If you believe everything a rep trying to market his product says then why would anyone take your argument seriously?

I bet Best Buy sales people love people with this mindset. "I have no reason to disbelieve the Best Buy rep trying to sell me something". Yes, yes I'll buy this 70$ Monster HDMI cable. Best Buy drone told me it's the best! No reason to NOT believe him! Right?! :whiste:

On a side note, I actually heard a best buy salesman trying to sell one of those cables based on "anti virus" abilities. ANTI VIRUS. HDMI CABLE. DOES NOT COMPUTE. The cable was 79.99$ for a Monster HDMI 1.2 cable. I really wanted to say something. Because anyone paying 80$ for an HDMI cable...well...is either misinformed or stupid. He was talking to some guy I didn't know and I just randomly overheard it, but I really wanted to interrupt. But I didn't.

 

[sontin]

I wonder why this has AMD scared, since they have Mantle...something is missing from the puzzle.

Because Mantle needs aditional work from the developers where Gameworks save them money and time.

The difference is quite clear.

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Considering BF4, if AMD offered to "improve" my multimillion dollar software title I'd tell them to get lost too.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Because Mantle needs aditional work from the developers where Gameworks save them money and time.

The difference is quite clear.

That is not it.
NVIDIA is suspiciously quiet.
They are only quiet when they are in "skunk works" mode according to my experience.
Something is missing.

 

[SiliconWars]

Considering BF4, if AMD offered to "improve" my multimillion dollar software title I'd tell them to get lost too.

Complete FUD, AMD has no fault in BF4's engine issues.

The rest of the recent posts aren't even worth commenting on, so tragic are they.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Complete FUD, AMD has no fault in BF4's engine issues.

The rest of the recent posts aren't even worth commenting on, so tragic are they.

That is a sad excuse to avoid answering this:

How dows APEX, PhysX and Gameworks prevent AMD from optimizing a game?
You know you have this unfortunate habbit of making wild claims with nothing to back your claims up...will you deliver this time?

 

[SiliconWars]

I (and others) already answered that Lonbjerg - that's what the whole article in the OP is about - you just avoided recognising it.