EVGA claims minor rust as physical damage. What do you think ?

[Krakn3Dfx]

I had a GTX260 from EVGA, worked great except for Dragon Age, where the textures would go squirrely, called EVGA and they shipped me another one. Same issue, different card, everything else was perfect, Dragon Age would flake out. They had no problems sending me a 3rd card, which finally corrected the issue.

I've always bought EVGA, and until I have a solid reason not to, I'll keep supporting them.

 

[3DVagabond]

Since the title of the thread is, ...What do you think? I think the card has been stored for an extended period of time without anything to protect it from the high humidity (silica gel) and it's rusted.

I have no way of knowing this for sure, but it's what I think hap happened.

 

[OCGuy]

You buy whatever you want...when I buy nV, I will continue to buy EVGA

 

[Maxx_Power]

You buy whatever you want...when I buy nV, I will continue to buy EVGA

I used to buy XFX when they offered life time warranty and allowed you to tinker with the card so long as you RMA it in its original condition (NOT TRUE ANYMORE).

Now, ASUS, I suppose. I know ASUS support sucks, so I know what I'm getting into.

 

[ArchAngel777]

It just depends I guess. Its strange I see peoples experiences drastically different from my own but, I guess thats life. Ive done 6 RMA's with EVGA and every time I got a card that has worked fine.... So im skeptical when a person does only 1 rma and has an issue when ive done 6 over 10 or so years and not had an issue.

And Ive had great dealings with Zotac too. Some people hate on their rebates but ive actually received all mine very fast from them. Never had to RMA with them though.

I don't blame you for being skeptical, but you need to get your head out of the sand if you are going to discount people who have different results. Their own forums had people complaining of the exact same issue that I was. Their 280 GTX's that were getting replaced by the RMA Department had the same PSOD.

In fact, you can probably find the the threads to this day. Same handle on their forums. Do a search! I was also the guy who would have gotten 'two' replacements because of their screw up. I notified them of this and they intercepted the other package.

Their RMA Department as of 1 (edit**, this was actually 2.5 years ago, time flies) year ago was aboslutely horrid. Can things change? Sure, of course that can. Is it possible I just had bad luck? Doubtful, because I received two bad cards over a 3 weeks period. How does that happen? And if it was my system, why did my 3rd card work? Why did my first two replacement cards fail in different two different rigs? Some things you need to consider.

Besides, as noted before, there were at least 5 people in the forums with the same issue I had. They kept receiving cards with the same problem. So we all just jokingly said that we kept getting each others cards. I call this the 280 GTX debacle.

Additional note: I took pictures of the final card that I received. The sticker on the fan was dangling (it was missing adhesive on like 80% of the sticker) and would have likely fallen off and got stuckin in the fan if I did not remove it. Addtionally, the main plate was crooked and not lined up properly with the card. I took pictures and forwarded them to eVGA and told him that had I been real picky, I'd have sent this card back too and made a stink. Who knows, maybe someone who worked there around 2.5 years ago was a horrible employee and they cleaned house. I suppose he/she could have worked on my RMA twice in a row before someone competitent worked on mine. I have no idea.

 

[ArchAngel777]

I figure this would be worthy to post, since many people seem to think 'well, I don't know this guy, so he probably just installed the card wrong'...

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=341007&mpage=1&print=true


Someone else created this thread, but you can find my post. To quote myself:

To the OP - How did you find out both of your cards 'passed the test'? That REALLY CONCERNS me... There is no way these guys are testing these things properly if either of my cards pass their test, because I tested my failed card in multiple machines. If they are just booting to an XP Desktop (No Windows Aero) it may appear to work fine, but these cards are anything but fine... Put any 3D Load on them and they will crash. Basically, I am in the same exact boat as the OP here... He speaks the truth. And now it all makes sense that my replacement card has crapped out on me... It is probably because someone else had that failed card, it passed their test and now I am a proud owner someone elses defective product.?!?!? Food for thought.

Now, the skeptics are thinking, well that is only one thread... Ok, well, fair enough. But lets take a look a these...

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=344506&mpage=1

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1483112&mpage=1

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=671453&mpage=1

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=228825&mpage=1

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=85112&mpage=1

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=759153&mpage=1

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=85689&mpage=1

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1198351&mpage=1

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=544570&mpage=1

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=212253&mpage=1

Is this enough evidence? I could keep going.

I also want to make something clear, that I thought I made clear in my first post of this thread. I don't hate eVGA, I just don't put any weight into their warranty. I don't see eVGA as any worse than, say, Zotac, but I don't see them as better either. Therefore, the price premium they typically carry does not justify their purchase for me.

 

[MTDEW]

Since the title of the thread is, ...What do you think? I think the card has been stored for an extended period of time without anything to protect it from the high humidity (silica gel) and it's rusted.

I have no way of knowing this for sure, but it's what I think hap happened.

Funny, that was my first thought also.
I was thinking it looks like what would happen if i stored my card in a cardboard box in my garage for a few months.

 

[MentalIlness]

Funny, that was my first thought also.
I was thinking it looks like what would happen if i stored my card in a cardboard box in my garage for a few months.

I had a ATi X1800 XL stored away in the shed for about two years. Ended up unpacking it, and it had a little "brown" color surface rust on one corner of the card, where a screw was.

 

[3DVagabond]

I used to buy XFX when they offered life time warranty and allowed you to tinker with the card so long as you RMA it in its original condition (NOT TRUE ANYMORE).

Now, ASUS, I suppose. I know ASUS support sucks, so I know what I'm getting into.

XFX still offers lifetime warranty on some models. They no longer offer double lifetime warranty. I've heard nothing that they don't allow heatsink changes as long as it's RMA'd in original condition.

 

[Maxx_Power]

XFX still offers lifetime warranty on some models. They no longer offer double lifetime warranty. I've heard nothing that they don't allow heatsink changes as long as it's RMA'd in original condition.

That's good to know. Although the last little while I have been going with AMD cards under ASUS.

At one point I had two 7600GS from XFX. One eventually developed a memory/VRAM failure, and XFX RMA'd it. ALTHOUGH, to my surprise, it came back underclocked. I guess they figured the VRAM speed at launch time was responsible for eventual memory failures... Either way, I only use it as a spare now, and still got that double lifetime warranty!

 

[cmdrdredd]

I figure this would be worthy to post, since many people seem to think 'well, I don't know this guy, so he probably just installed the card wrong'...

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=341007&mpage=1&print=true


Someone else created this thread, but you can find my post. To quote myself:



Now, the skeptics are thinking, well that is only one thread... Ok, well, fair enough. But lets take a look a these...

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=344506&mpage=1

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1483112&mpage=1

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=671453&mpage=1

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=228825&mpage=1

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=85112&mpage=1

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=759153&mpage=1

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=85689&mpage=1

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1198351&mpage=1

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=544570&mpage=1

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=212253&mpage=1

Is this enough evidence? I could keep going.

I also want to make something clear, that I thought I made clear in my first post of this thread. I don't hate eVGA, I just don't put any weight into their warranty. I don't see eVGA as any worse than, say, Zotac, but I don't see them as better either. Therefore, the price premium they typically carry does not justify their purchase for me.

Yeah but they sell thousands of cards that have no problem. So...yeah.

 

[3DVagabond]

Here's a suggestion. I'm not sure how it works in PR, but see what it costs to file a claim through small claims court. In some states it's like $10. No company is going to go through the expense of fighting the claim for the cost of a video card.

 

[Maxx_Power]

Here's a suggestion. I'm not sure how it works in PR, but see what it costs to file a claim through small claims court. In some states it's like $10. No company is going to go through the expense of fighting the claim for the cost of a video card.

Interesting, I wonder if the Carribean countries have something similar...

 

[ArchAngel777]

Yeah but they sell thousands of cards that have no problem. So...yeah.

I am not sure what relevence this has with their RMA department. Can you explain the link between failed RMA replacement cards and the sale of new card?

 

[smackababy]

I am not sure what relevence this has with their RMA department. Can you explain the link between failed RMA replacement cards and the sale of new card?

Think about it. All electronics have an acceptable rate of failure. If EVGA sells 1 million units of a card, with a rate of failure of 1%, that is 10,000 defective cards "in the wild". Now, if I was one of those 10,000 and EVGA made another 10,000 to replace all these defective cards, we can assume 100 of will be defective. Being the 1% of 1% seems like a unlikely chance until you figure in the volume of production we are talking about.


On the topic, I agree with EVGA denying the RMA and the stance rust is physical damage. However, I disagree in the manner in which this was handled. I feel as though the should have informed the card owner of their stance and replaced the card as it was a cheap card and the loss of money couldn't amount to more than $35 for them. Letting him know that while this possibly isn't under his control, rust is not covered under their RMA policy and future cards displaying such condition will result in not getting a replacement. This not only would be good PR, because the op would likely share his experience, it would help EVGA keep a customer.

 

[coffeejunkee]

Sad...especially considering even in the dryest of dry climates 8800gt's die by the droves (yes mine too, and yes I'm still pissed off Nvidia ignored this issue when it came to individual customers). 15 mins of baking would probably have resurrected the card, rust or no rust.

 

[3DVagabond]

Sad...especially considering even in the dryest of dry climates 8800gt's die by the droves (yes mine too, and yes I'm still pissed off Nvidia ignored this issue when it came to individual customers). 15 mins of baking would probably have resurrected the card, rust or no rust.

Likely true.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Think about it. All electronics have an acceptable rate of failure. If EVGA sells 1 million units of a card, with a rate of failure of 1%, that is 10,000 defective cards "in the wild". Now, if I was one of those 10,000 and EVGA made another 10,000 to replace all these defective cards, we can assume 100 of will be defective. Being the 1% of 1% seems like a unlikely chance until you figure in the volume of production we are talking about.

This is kind of like my saying this: Refridgerators keep things cold. True statement, but I am not entirely sure how it applies to this... And what is this? The fact that many people would get failed replacement cards over and over, multiple times for the same exact problem that initiated the RMA. Finally after a few cards, the 3rd or 4th card would work fine. That is statisticly improbable, which logically points to quality control of their RMA department. Besides, RMA departments don't work like you think they do. When you RMA a video card, they don't take a brand new one off the shelf from resale and send it to you. That is a last resort. They take from the 'b' stock type stuff and they are 'supposed to test it'. Our RMA department tests litterally everything that gets sent out to the consumer. Do mistakes happen? Yes, but they do happen twice in a row? Not that I am aware of, and if so, we would likely take one out of resale. In addition to that, we would issue call tags so that consumer would not have to pay shipping for our mistakes. I think some people are purposely being dense about this topic. I suppose it comes down to brand loyalty for some people here.


Additionally, being 1% of 1% (.01%) is unlikely no matter the volume.

 

[Maxx_Power]

Think about it. All electronics have an acceptable rate of failure. If EVGA sells 1 million units of a card, with a rate of failure of 1%, that is 10,000 defective cards "in the wild". Now, if I was one of those 10,000 and EVGA made another 10,000 to replace all these defective cards, we can assume 100 of will be defective. Being the 1% of 1% seems like a unlikely chance until you figure in the volume of production we are talking about.


On the topic, I agree with EVGA denying the RMA and the stance rust is physical damage. However, I disagree in the manner in which this was handled. I feel as though the should have informed the card owner of their stance and replaced the card as it was a cheap card and the loss of money couldn't amount to more than $35 for them. Letting him know that while this possibly isn't under his control, rust is not covered under their RMA policy and future cards displaying such condition will result in not getting a replacement. This not only would be good PR, because the op would likely share his experience, it would help EVGA keep a customer.

Well, 1% or not, I don't even think it is calculable from the data just on this thread. Also, it is selective-sampling on this thread.

I think there MIGHT be much bigger data available (to public or not) on general 8800/8600/9800/9600 failures.

 

[artvscommerce]

I think EVGA is very much in the wrong here. I don't have the specs handy, but most GPUs are rated for up to 85 or 90% relative humidity. Being in this type of environment for years is surely able to produce the barely visible amount of rust apparent in the photos.

If the card was operating in an environment within the conditions rated to be acceptable by the manufacturer, the presence of rust should be irrelevant.

 

[Fallengod]

I think EVGA is very much in the wrong here. I don't have the specs handy, but most GPUs are rated for up to 85 or 90% relative humidity. Being in this type of environment for years is surely able to produce the barely visible amount of rust apparent in the photos.

If the card was operating in an environment within the conditions rated to be acceptable by the manufacturer, the presence of rust should be irrelevant.

Maybe a mod can lock this thread, its been beaten to a pulp. I think all the intelligent experienced people have nailed the conclusion down on this.

That is just the point.... The GPU's are rated to be protected from a certain amount of humidity, so if the card looks the way it does, it was left out or abused by conditions of the owner, which is physical abuse and is the owners fault. If you think that amount of rust is normal wear and tear from humidity, I suggest you go do some research. If you believe that is Evga's fault, thats fine, but youre wrong. I hope they deny the claim.

 

[Maxx_Power]

That is just the point.... The GPU's are rated to be protected from a certain amount of humidity, so if the card looks the way it does, it was left out or abused by conditions of the owner, which is physical abuse and is the owners fault. If you think that amount of rust is normal wear and tear from humidity, I suggest you go do some research. If you believe that is Evga's fault, thats fine, but youre wrong. I hope they deny the claim.

That's a pretty BIG assumption or specious reasoning that EVGA (or anyone) never makes mistakes, and any mistake MUST be made by the customer...

The claim is already accepted (see original post), with the OP paying a small portion of the fees. I argued that the OP shouldn't have to pay the fees.

 

[Maxx_Power]

I think EVGA is very much in the wrong here. I don't have the specs handy, but most GPUs are rated for up to 85 or 90% relative humidity. Being in this type of environment for years is surely able to produce the barely visible amount of rust apparent in the photos.

If the card was operating in an environment within the conditions rated to be acceptable by the manufacturer, the presence of rust should be irrelevant.

I checked EVGA specifications, they do not actually list humidity levels at all for GPUs, all the way from the 8800 generation to the current 600 generation.

For reference, the climate in Puerto Rico is described as:

"Humidity is common to tropical climates, and Puerto Rico is no exception. Puerto Rico's humidity is consistent all year. The humidity assists in keeping the temperatures mild. In San Juan, humidity levels range from 74 to 81 percent, changing little throughout the day. The monthly average is approximately 77 percent. In different parts of the island, the level can vary by a marginal degree."

from:

http://www.ehow.com/about_5318264_climate-puerto-rico.html

which is actually not that humid compared to places like Florida.

Here is a similar video card (Leadtek 8800) also rusted, owner lives in Glasgow:

http://forums.hexus.net/help-quick-relief-tech-headaches/135196-gah-rust-gfx-card.html

 

[Maxx_Power]

Sad...especially considering even in the dryest of dry climates 8800gt's die by the droves (yes mine too, and yes I'm still pissed off Nvidia ignored this issue when it came to individual customers). 15 mins of baking would probably have resurrected the card, rust or no rust.

I had to bake TWO of those, AND use Nibitor to change the fan profiles on both to ensure a more consistent load temperature to resuscitate those cards. They were GREAT cards, but prone to failures.

As I was saying before, I'm pretty sure that those cards pioneered/popularized the bake-your-own electronics idea. I remember my local computer shop started doing that as well after reading about the 8800's in the oven. Tried that on a dead HD 4870 to no avail, but I think we all know why that is...