EVGA claims minor rust as physical damage. What do you think ?

[Destiny]

Last time I checked rust is a combination of particular elements that causes a minor chemical reaction:

Rust is the name of iron oxides of different colors, usually red or black, that form when iron or steel corrodes.

What causes rust is the reaction of iron with oxygen dissolved in an electrolyte, usually it's rainwater, condensing water from the atmosphere or freshwater.​

The corrosion of iron and steel is an electrochemical reaction, it means that there is an exchange of electrons between the metal that is oxidized and corrodes and oxygen that is reduced.​

There are always two different reactions in a corrosion process:​

1) oxidation of Iron​

2Fe ---> 2Fe2+ + 4e-​

2) reduction of Oxygen​

O2 + 4 e- + H2O ---> 4OH-​

The overall reaction is:

2Fe2+ + 4OH- ----> 2Fe(OH)2

Fe(OH)2 reacts further with oxygen to form Iron oxides: Fe2O3 (hematite, red rust), Fe3O4 (magnetite, black)

The main ingredient here is water or humidity... so yeah it is physical damage, RUST just don't magically appear...

I've had overall good customer service from EVGA, but I can see how they tighten things up after people start taking advantage or abusing their warranty program.

 

[tigersty1e]

wow, i'm surprised everyone is looking at this objectively without any favoritism for the company.

usually on tech sites, there's a lot of people that just love evga and if you say anything bad about them, they will flame you.

 

[Maxx_Power]

Last time I checked rust is a combination of particular elements that causes a minor chemical reaction:




The main ingredient here is water or humidity... so yeah it is physical damage, RUST just don't magically appear...

I've had overall good customer service from EVGA, but I can see how they tighten things up after people start taking advantage or abusing their warranty program.

Wouldn't the technical term for this reaction resulting in damage be "chemical" damage ? Since it is cumulative damage due to a particular environment that is the "norm" of where the OP lives, it would be chemical wear and tear, that eVGA should have designed the card's iron-bearing metal parts for. After all, car makers rust proof cars depending on location and electronics get the mil-spec treatment if they are used in extraordinary situations. The product is always designed with the normal usage in mind. I also bet that there are lots of steel parts in the case of the OP that aren't rusted.

 

[Throckmorton]

If anything that would be EVGA's fault for building the card out of metals that rust.

No, your climate isn't to blame unless you live by the ocean. There are many places in the world with high humidity, such as Houston. It's purely EVGA's fault and you blaming it on PR like it's some kind of hostile environment is backwards and probably didn't help your case. That's like saying "But I live in a pineapple under the sea". Obviously living under the sea constitutes physically damaging your video card.

 

[Fallengod]

If anything that would be EVGA's fault for building the card out of metals that rust.

No, your climate isn't to blame unless you live by the ocean. There are many places in the world with high humidity, such as Houston. It's purely EVGA's fault and you blaming it on PR like it's some kind of hostile environment is backwards and probably didn't help your case. That's like saying "But I live in a pineapple under the sea". Obviously living under the sea constitutes physically damaging your video card.

Ummm ok. The card from what I could see on the pictures has rust on other components other than just the screws people. Do some of you not see that or just trying to ignore it? Rust on capacitors is not normal at all.... Ive also owned many video cards for 10 or so years, ive never had one get rust on it.....

I dont know how some people just go straight to blaming Evga on this. It sounds like the owner lives in a fairly extreme humid or moist place.... He probably is by the ocean.

The creator of this thread is trolling the same topic on many different forums too heh.

 

[thilanliyan]

I dont know how some people just go straight to blaming Evga on this. It sounds like the owner lives in a fairly extreme humid or moist place.... He probably is by the ocean.

Yeah but is there anything in the warranty that absolves evga if someone lives by the ocean?

 

[SilentRunning]

If anything that would be EVGA's fault for building the card out of metals that rust.

No, your climate isn't to blame unless you live by the ocean. There are many places in the world with high humidity, such as Houston. It's purely EVGA's fault and you blaming it on PR like it's some kind of hostile environment is backwards and probably didn't help your case. That's like saying "But I live in a pineapple under the sea". Obviously living under the sea constitutes physically damaging your video card.

Computer components are not designed to be used in high humidity. Why do you think they put dessicant in the packaging? The dessicant is to keep the components dry until they are ready to be used in a climate controlled environment (air conditioning or at least a dehumidifier.)

 

[Fallengod]

Yeah but is there anything in the warranty that absolves evga if someone lives by the ocean?

Well probably not, but lets think of this objectively. If the owner physically put his computer in the water in the ocean for years and it came out with moss, algae, rust, etc, is there anything in the warranty that absolves Evga from that either? I think most would agree THAT would be the owners fault no? Or is Evga supposed to be water, salt, sea proof as well? Lul.. Were talking about protecting from extremes here, so I guess were just arguing about what levels of acceptable extremes are?

And yes, its not like Evga does geographical studies of weather conditions in every part of the world they martket to, I mean how ridiculous it would be to suggest their cards have to survive extreme situations.... Rust on capacitors is pretty extreme. I definitely say this is the owners fault for living in an area like that.

I mean, think about this...if the video card looks like that, the rest of the computer has to look like that too. Probably his motherboard and cpu failed as well lol. You arnt going to have a computer with just one component in the system that has rust like that on it, the rest would have to as well.

Anyways, I hope they stick to their guns and deny the RMA. A 9800GT can be had for $30 these days anyways. Just buy a new one..... Its god telling you its time to upgrade.

This is, without a doubt, physical damage caused by the owner regardless of if he was aware of this issue or not. Tell him to move to a less humid/moist area if he values his computer product warranties.....

 

[SilentRunning]

Yeah but is there anything in the warranty that absolves evga if someone lives by the ocean?

Yes, physical damage caused by the owner.

 

[thilanliyan]

Yes, physical damage caused by the owner.

Not if it was run as intended (ie. he just used it as any one of us would do...just that his environment is very humid).

As Fallengod said however, I'd like to see the rest of the components in his system. I think it's reasonable if everything else looks like that, then it's not shoddy workmanship, but if other components are fine then it's poor build quality on evga's part.

 

[peonyu]

I'm posting this for one Tomshardware member here, who seems to be is being shafted by EVGA! It is not my problem, I usually just help others. In this case, I think "lpedraja2002" is being unfairly (screwed) treated by EVGA.

Original thread here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/38...arged#t2874834

Others chipping in from HardForums here:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1039420057&posted=1#post1039420057


BASICALLY:

"To make things short I sent my awesome EVGA 8800gt ... for an RMA... Well, after $25 in UPS charges for a small box ( I live in Puerto Rico) I received an email today saying that the card had physical damage Rust! The technician ...included the pictures in the email and I could see that the screws had a little rust on them and so did the bracket on the DVI ports. I was instructed to pay $69.99 to continue with the RMA but this is where I'm honestly confused. Is this even considered physical damage? I always took good care of this card and cleaned it with compressed air only so rust happening is not my fault, its what happens to metals that aren't treated, as far as I know.

The technician responded back saying that rust and corrosion is not normal wear and tear and that they have cards older than 5 years that look like new. I told him if there is any special consideration regarding the country in which the owner lives since I live in Puerto Rico and the tropical climate ranges from hot and humid to cool and humid with humidity reaching up to 80% or more. So given these living conditions can we assume it is a natural environment for rust to develop along the years?


EVENTUALLY.

He said he reduced the price to support me better from $69.99 to $39.99 I was quite disappointed that he didn't respond to my initial question about the climate I live in being the factor of the rust. Do all companies charge their costumers when RMAing on Lifetime Warranties?
"

WHAT DO YOU THINK ? Any EVGA reps out there ?

UPDATE IMAGES:

Idk the rust seems over the top to me; If you look at the IC chip in the first picture [black chip at the top right] there is rust all over that. There is also rust on the grid of solder points above that to, so its not just the screws that are rusted, there are physical parts of the card itself thats rusted. Im sure if we saw other parts of the card that other large [relatively compared to traces] would be rusted aswell..

I never seen a video card rust myself and i live in S.Fl. Im not saying it cant happen but I have to wonder if something else is not at fault besides poor manufacturing. The only possible explanation I can think of [outside of poor card quality] for rust to form THAT bad is that the owner has watercooling and it leaked above his video card - killing it and rusting it. Ofc in that case it would most likely have leaked at night and he keeps his PC on 24/7 so the water would have had a good while to oxidize the metal before he woke up and tended to the problem.

I could also be 100% wrong with the above.


edit: Just looked at pic 2 more closely and yes there is rust on the IC at the top left in the picture, and there is small amounts of rust on the bottom left IC aswell, clearly the rust is not just based on the screws. I think if it was just the screws EVGA would be ok with a RMA, but the card itself looking as though it lived a nice life "under the sea" is whats making them hesitant.

 

[Maxx_Power]

Idk the rust seems over the top to me; If you look at the IC chip in the first picture [black chip at the top right] there is rust all over that. There is also rust on the grid of solder points above that to, so its not just the screws that are rusted, there are physical parts of the card itself thats rusted. Im sure if we saw other parts of the card that other large [relatively compared to traces] would be rusted aswell..

I never seen a video card rust myself and i live in S.Fl. Im not saying it cant happen but I have to wonder if something else is not at fault besides poor manufacturing. The only possible explanation I can think of [outside of poor card quality] for rust to form THAT bad is that the owner has watercooling and it leaked above his video card - killing it and rusting it. Ofc in that case it would most likely have leaked at night and he keeps his PC on 24/7 so the water would have had a good while to oxidize the metal before he woke up and tended to the problem.

I could also be 100% wrong with the above.


edit: Just looked at pic 2 more closely and yes there is rust on the IC at the top left in the picture, and there is small amounts of rust on the bottom left IC aswell, clearly the rust is not just based on the screws. I think if it was just the screws EVGA would be ok with a RMA, but the card itself looking as though it lived a nice life "under the sea" is whats making them hesitant.

Ummm ok. The card from what I could see on the pictures has rust on other components other than just the screws people. Do some of you not see that or just trying to ignore it? Rust on capacitors is not normal at all.... Ive also owned many video cards for 10 or so years, ive never had one get rust on it.....

I dont know how some people just go straight to blaming Evga on this. It sounds like the owner lives in a fairly extreme humid or moist place.... He probably is by the ocean.

The creator of this thread is trolling the same topic on many different forums too heh.

That "rust" you see on the IC chips, and most of it on the screws as the OP pointed out, is due to Sahara dust, a regional excess of oxides that naturally occurs in the air, due to natural phenomenona. See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral_dust

I can't quantify for you how much of that oxide is due to atmospheric conditions and how much due to natural rusting process. This explains why there are brownish coloured, oxide-looking dust gathered at the FAN BLADES in the picture.

 

[Maxx_Power]

See above.

 

[Fallengod]

Sounds like its best to think twice about having a computer in that region if warranty/RMA is a concern for you..... Really has little to do with Evga. Thats going to be true for all components in the computer.

 

[Maxx_Power]

Sounds like its best to think twice about having a computer in that region if warranty/RMA is a concern for you..... Really has little to do with Evga. Thats going to be true for all components in the computer.

Well, it is not my card. I'm simply taking the case of someone who I think is being treated unfairly.

My personal opinion is that, EVGA shouldn't have offered such a long warranty for their products, if all they do is sell the SAME product no matter the geography. That would be prudent on their part. OR, alternatively, deem rust as an acceptable form of wear and tear in that region. The fact is, EVGA still offers 5 year warranties (not sure about life time anymore), and this product WOULD have been covered even then. The alternative proposal I have heard a few times now is also pretty good: that EVGA (or anyone else) should cover the item(s) under warranty if based on physical evidence that the failure of the card was beyond user control, i.e., similar to Magnusen-Moss warranty act in the US.

It is all fun and politeness when you are dealing with their service before you have a real problem, and when you do, it becomes a conflict of interest between serving you to the best they can, and making money as they should. I remember once talking to ASUS reps and have them say that they will in fact cover products up to 3 months out of warranty, so your warranty period is literally 3 years+ 3 months of grace. When it finally became reality for me to RMA a board with ASUS that is <3 years old, but approaching 3 years, ASUS first sent me a damaged board that wasn't packed properly for shipping, then refused an exchange because the product is now out of warrant (took about 1 month for the cross-exchange to occur).

Lastly, not everything is rusted, or rusted to the same extent. For example, the PCI-bracket on the card wasn't mentioned by the technician who served the OP, which leads me to believe that the PCI-brackets are plated/sourced differently by EVGA, the end result being that there was no rust there, but only noticeable at the screws. This differential rusting says that the weakest point was the EVGA screws, for which EVGA is asking 40 bucks from the OP.

 

[rgallant]

still it's rusted enough not to have it cleaned up and resold [B stock] that's the point of no damage to product or it won't be allowed. not sure what is not clear about that.
-one pic. does show rust or dirt on the bracket from what I see.

-how many people fry their cards by not cleaning out the card , then clean it out before sending it in for rma and get a new card with no questions asked.
-btw why would OP send a card in filled with dust then wonder why his rma was rejected.

-I know your going to tell me cards made by evga should be self cleaning ,but they are not.

-had there been no rust they would have replaced the card and shipped at no cost to OP.

-also last time I checked nv made those cards and screws not evga unless it was a aftermarket card .

 

[Fallengod]

Well, it is not my card. I'm simply taking the case of someone who I think is being treated unfairly.

Well to be honest, I dont know why you are posting on various forums with the same topic for something that is not even yours to argue....

Go do this. Ask the OP who owns this card to take detailed pictures of the inside of his case including up close pictures of the motherboard, memory and cpu itself. I will almost guarantee the rest of his system is rusted out as well..... I will be waiting for these pictures.

My point here is, if the video card is rusted that badly, the rest of his system must be as well(unless he just replaced it). This pretty much proves its not an Evga issue, its a physical damage from weather issue...which is his fault....period.

 

[Maxx_Power]

Well to be honest, I dont know why you are posting on various forums with the same topic for something that is not even yours to argue....

Go do this. Ask the OP who owns this card to take detailed pictures of the inside of his case including up close pictures of the motherboard, memory and cpu itself. I will almost guarantee the rest of his system is rusted out as well..... I will be waiting for these pictures.

My point here is, if the video card is rusted that badly, the rest of his system must be as well(unless he just replaced it). This pretty much proves its not an Evga issue, its a physical damage from weather issue...which is his fault....period.

I already did. He's working on it. I'm taking some personal effort to his issue because A) I regularly help at Toms, but there is no known EVGA reps who patrols those forums to help out (not that I know) and B) Decency.

For your last paragraph, I draw your attention to this:


I think it is amazing that people consistently are unable to separate TWO different things, that:

A) YES, there is RUST. Whether or not this is caused by intention or wear due to improper design/environment/abuse is NOT YET substantiated.

and MORE IMPORTANTLY,

B) The causal LINK between RUST and GPU failure. A LOT of 8800's, 8600's, 9800's are dying/dead, people bake them in the oven, there are TONS of threads on this, I have done this twice, etc... I'm certain the OP wouldn't mind getting the card back FIXED, but with his rusty screws.

 

[Fallengod]

B) The causal LINK between RUST and GPU failure. A LOT of 8800's, 8600's, 9800's are dying/dead, people bake them in the oven, there are TONS of threads on this, I have done this twice, etc... I'm certain the OP wouldn't mind getting the card back FIXED, but with his rusty screws.

Well ok, thats fair enough. Heres the problem. This is a cheap video card RMA. They are not going to invest millions of dollars in time and effort to figure out the exact cause of a failure. Since the dawn of time, companies have had a clause that stipulates issues regarding physical damage voiding their warranties. This isnt something new. So while the rust may not have caused the failure, allowing it to get rusted by geographical weather conditions or what have you is still his fault. Everyone should know physical damage voids a warranty, regardless of what caused the failure....

Tell the OP, "lesson learned". Next...

Again, its a $30 video card at this point in time.... Buy another one..


Please also keep in mind, I have no problem siding with the OP and giving symphathy for something like this if he can show and prove the rest of his system(which has been with the video card the same duration) is completely untouched while the video card itself is the only component with "rust" issues(this is highly unlikely). If that were the case, id say manufacturer flaw and it should be returnable. Still a hard case to argue since its physical damage though. Again, comes down to cost. Its a $30 video card... Just buy a new one, save the hassle.

 

[Maxx_Power]

Well ok, thats fair enough. Heres the problem. This is a cheap video card RMA. They are not going to invest millions of dollars in time and effort to figure out the exact cause of a failure. Since the dawn of time, companies have had a clause that stipulates issues regarding physical damage voiding their warranties. This isnt something new. So while the rust may not have caused the failure, allowing it to get rusted by geographical weather conditions or what have you is still his fault. Everyone should know physical damage voids a warranty, regardless of what caused the failure....

Tell the OP, "lesson learned". Next...

Again, its a $30 video card at this point in time.... Buy another one..


Please also keep in mind, I have no problem siding with the OP and giving symphathy for something like this if he can show and prove the rest of his system(which has been with the video card the same duration) is completely untouched while the video card itself is the only component with "rust" issues(this is highly unlikely). If that were the case, id say manufacturer flaw and it should be returnable. Still a hard case to argue since its physical damage though. Again, comes down to cost. Its a $30 video card... Just buy a new one, save the hassle.

Here is to hoping that soon (the OP said this weekend sometime) he's going to disassemble and take some pictures to settle the part A of the two part issue at hand. I for myself would like to know too, just out of curiosity.

Either way, I'm not sure at all whether something similar to the MM act exists where the OP lives, so even if the rust was not the cause of failure, similar people in similar cases can still get screwed.

The OP did say that he was quite happy with the 5 year lifetime he got on the card before it died, and I AGREE, that card has seen better days when it was in the prime several generations ago. The OP just wasn't satisfied with the explanations from EVGA service on why they are denying his request for RMA.

It is just an eye opener for the OP (who used to buy EVGA products only for GPUs) and me, who recommended whole-heartedly EVGA GPUs on Toms, mostly due to their reputation on service.

 

[OCGuy]

All of this over a few bucks, and EVGA will most likely send a newer-generation card out for you after all of these years?


Faux-outrage.

 

[Fallengod]

It is just an eye opener for the OP (who used to buy EVGA products only for GPUs) and me, who recommended whole-heartedly EVGA GPUs on Toms, mostly due to their reputation on service.

Thats fine. Like I said, lesson learned. Adds to experience.

It really has nothing to do with Evga. Most companies will not approve an RMA if it has physical damage. Thats just how it works.

Heres a hypothetical for you.

Lets say a video card dies due to hardware failure with no physical damage. Completely manufacturer defect. Then you take it outside in the street and run over it with a truck. Now it is physically damaged. Do you think they are going to allow a return for this? No of course not, that would be absurd...youre fucked. Guess who has the burden to prove the hardware failure was not the cause of physical damage? You do.... And that is almost impossible to do. This is obviously an extreme example, but you get my point.

 

[Maxx_Power]

Thats fine. Like I said, lesson learned. Adds to experience.

It really has nothing to do with Evga. Most companies will not approve an RMA if it has physical damage. Thats just how it works.

Heres a hypothetical for you.

Lets say a video card dies due to hardware failure with no physical damage. Completely manufacturer defect. Then you take it outside in the street and run over it with a truck. Now it is physically damaged. Do you think they are going to allow a return for this? No of course not, that would be absurd...youre fucked. Guess who has the burden to prove the hardware failure was not the cause of physical damage? You do.... And that is almost impossible to do. This is obviously an extreme example, but you get my point.

Fair enough, but that's a bit of an extreme example. Since you brought up cars, I suppose if your car's manufacturer claimed that running over the GPU caused the car's engine to die, and you are not covered under warranty, how would you feel ?

 

[Jacky60]

As I see it this is an ancient card, the OP will get a better card than the card he/she allowed to RUST. Rusting as Professor Science explained earlier is Iron (Fe) oxidation. I genuinely think that paying $40 to have the card replaced is the very least you can do. I totally hate it when stuff from whoever fails but rust in what really is normally a very hot dry environment (inside a pc case) is not normal. I live in the UK, you can't 'air dry' ham here like you can in Southern Europe because it's pretty moist with high relative humidity but rusting graphics cards I honestly believe is having a laugh. I ride a bicycle in wet weather it doesn't f..cking rust because I look after it. If a graphics/video card is rusting something about it's care is really not correct (e.g. a damp basement left to mildew for way too long). IMHO OP should pay the money and be grateful they'll entertain the idea of RMA.

 

[Maxx_Power]

As I see it this is an ancient card, the OP will get a better card than the card he/she allowed to RUST. Rusting as Professor Science explained earlier is Iron (Fe) oxidation. I genuinely think that paying $40 to have the card replaced is the very least you can do. I totally hate it when stuff from whoever fails but rust in what really is normally a very hot dry environment (inside a pc case) is not normal. I live in the UK, you can't 'air dry' ham here like you can in Southern Europe because it's pretty moist with high relative humidity but rusting graphics cards I honestly believe is having a laugh. I ride a bicycle in wet weather it doesn't f..cking rust because I look after it. If a graphics/video card is rusting something about it's care is really not correct (e.g. a damp basement left to mildew for way too long). IMHO OP should pay the money and be grateful they'll entertain the idea of RMA.

Rust is iron oxide, so is the major composition of Saharan dust that the OP experiences living where he is (affects a lot of the world, actually). If you look at OP's 3rd picture of the fan, you'll see there is oxides building up at the fan blades as well, which MEANS that some of that rust isn't from the card itself.