Ever think of becoming vegetarian? NOW WITH POLL

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halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
81
Originally posted by: jbaggins
LOL, a shark biting off a guy's arm is natural order? Come on, no way. Natural order was when our ancestors were spear chuckers, and we were about as likely to get eaten by a lion as we were to kill one.

Regarding amino acids, protein, etc. Not true, I know lots of vegetarians that are on protein shakes and have amino acids and good amounts of protein and are pretty buff.

And I know there are some vegetarian body builders. I can find some links, or you can google it if you prefer.


Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: jbaggins
I know its long. i tend to write long posts. sorry. anyways, There is no NATURAL order going on. Most of the fish you eat is farm raised. Most of the beef you eat was from a cow that was intentionally bred to be a steak one day. Same with chickens, etc.

How is that natural order? We are far beyond natural order at this stage.

Originally posted by: halik
nope,
I hardly get enough amino acids and protein in my diet as is. *People* die all over the world on daily basis, so animal cruelty is really of no concern to me. I'm all for natural order.


Cliffnotes please, i read the first two paragraphs and gave up.


It's natural order because we're part of the foodchain in that way. Same reason guys surfing in australia get eaten by a shark sometime. Sucks for them, but c'est la vie.

Also I've never seen an athelete or anyone remotelly buff thats veggie. Quite the opposite actually, every single vergetarian i know is scrawny as hell. I try to eat good 150G of protein every day and that would be hardly possible with all vegetables.


there has never been a bodybuilder that got anywhere with just a veggie diet. Doesn't work that way.
 

jbaggins

Senior member
Oct 19, 2004
261
0
0
Since you brought biology into it, i have to bring those points up. We have FLAT teeth. Most plant eating animals have FLAT teeth. So, really, if you are keeping with what we are SUPPOSED to do, before we ate meat, we were probably intended to be plant eaters.

And, our intestines, when compared with carnivores, have much smaller tracts. Again, this fact weakens the argument that we were supposed to eat meat. Meat stays in our bodies longer than in animals like lions, which is one reason we have increased colon cancer chances.



Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: jbaggins
There is no NATURAL order going on. Most of the fish you eat is farm raised. Most of the beef you eat was from a cow that was intentionally bred to be a steak one day. Same with chickens, etc.

How is that natural order? We are far beyond natural order at this stage.

Yeah? And most of the vegetables you eat were grown on farms, not picked out of the forest. Is it unnatural for humans to raise their food?

It's natural for humans to use tools and alter the environment around us. While other animals merely find pre-existing things to use, humans make our own. So it does make sense that we'd raise our own food.


You're confused aobut how natural order works. It's not about where the thigns come from, but what you consume.

worm <- mouse <-owl <-hawk etc.

Humans eat animals lower on the chain. Thats why our teeth have developed the way they did. We're omnivores - if we weren't then we'd have flat teeth and 4 stomachs.

 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: Monkey muppet
With fish and nuts giving you the rest, plus a good mixture a the different fats the body requires.

LOL- I love it when "vegetarians" point to fish as a good source of protein. Last time I checked, fish are animals, not plants.
 

Patt

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2000
5,288
2
81
Humans are omnivores. I'll go long stretches without eating meat, but it is an essential part of our diet. I agree our society eats too much meat, but I still love it, and the animal cruelty part of it doesn't come into play. Of course, I buy my meats from local distributors, all of whom slaughter their meat in as humane a way as possible.

I love my dog ... but I will not ever stop eating meat.
 

iamwiz82

Lifer
Jan 10, 2001
30,772
13
81
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: Monkey muppet
With fish and nuts giving you the rest, plus a good mixture a the different fats the body requires.

LOL- I love it when "vegetarians" point to fish as a good source of protein. Last time I checked, fish are animals, not plants.

But they are not cute animals, and hence end up on the chopping block.
 

jbaggins

Senior member
Oct 19, 2004
261
0
0
Wait are you actually suggesting that Evolving is relative to Meat eating? So, we would be "de-evolving" by becoming vegetarian? This is a very interesting argument. Can you expand upon this?

1. I would not stop a Cheetah. I cannot talk to a Cheetah to discuss the moral and philosophical pros and cons of taking on a vegetarian diet.

2.High protein, high calorie diets in 2005 don't have to do with meat. There are plenty of non meat products that are high in protein and calories.

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: jbaggins
1) Personal preference, fine, what about morality?
2) Animals eat animals was okay when our ancestors were chukking spears. Is this argument valid today though, as we have evolved far beyond other species, I would argue that we are not the same people we were - and I think most would agree.

1. Would you stop a cheetah from eating an antelope? There's plenty of grass for that cheetah to eat, maybe it could just eat grass.

2. We evolved to what we are now because of our high protein, high calorie diets. Such diets support larger brains.

Take a look at all the really smart animals, and you'll notice that they're carnivores. Most plant eating animals are not very smart. People like you use the excuse that we've evolved as a reason that we should be vegatarians. That's just stupid. I don't feel like de-evolving.

 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: halik

You're confused aobut how natural order works. It's not about where the thigns come from, but what you consume.

worm <- mouse <-owl <-hawk etc.

Humans eat animals lower on the chain. Thats why our teeth have developed the way they did. We're omnivores - if we weren't then we'd have flat teeth and 4 stomachs.

I know how natural order works. I'm not the one claiming that vegetarianism is the way. I eat animals lower in the food chain. I use those canines.
 

jbaggins

Senior member
Oct 19, 2004
261
0
0
1. I beg to differ. Morality does have to do with it. We are taking a life away. Morality deals with such issues.
2.As I said, scientists have proven that we do not NEED meat. Forget survival, that is the minimum, even to be healthy we do not NEED meat. Supplements? Yes. But they are naturally occuring, such as protein whey, so whats the big deal. Take spinach and grind it up, there ya go, its a supplement. You're not having to use really fancy supplements to support a healthy vegetarian diet.
3). We are always evolving, i do not dispute that, but that doesn't respond to this point.

Originally posted by: Anubis
1) morality has nothing to do with it
2) we are still animals, and we NEED meat to survive, peopel that eat no mean, no fish chicken, none of it, need to take suppllements for what they arnt getting from the meat because veggies just dont have the nutritional value
3) we are always evolving, so yes its still valid



Originally posted by: jbaggins
1) Personal preference, fine, what about morality?
2) Animals eat animals was okay when our ancestors were chukking spears. Is this argument valid today though, as we have evolved far beyond other species, I would argue that we are not the same people we were - and I think most would agree. There are thousands of customs, of all different peoples that are left behind as we become more evolved. (witch craft burning, bride burning, public beheadings, etc., diet, etc)
3)Probably true, because again, at that time, we did not have the resources and quantity of foods back then. I am not arguing that it is morally incorrect back then. AT that time, we would be lucky with WHATEVER food we (humans) could get. Not today. I don't believe the argument holds significane TODAY.
4)Good fer ya. :beer:


Originally posted by: Anubis
1) i dont beleive in god
2) animals eat animals we (humans) are an animal
3) if we never ate meat we wouldent have evolved to where we are today
4) i will now eat 2x the meat as i did before to make up for what you arnt eateing

 

jbaggins

Senior member
Oct 19, 2004
261
0
0
strong statement. Let me see now.


Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: jbaggins
LOL, a shark biting off a guy's arm is natural order? Come on, no way. Natural order was when our ancestors were spear chuckers, and we were about as likely to get eaten by a lion as we were to kill one.

Regarding amino acids, protein, etc. Not true, I know lots of vegetarians that are on protein shakes and have amino acids and good amounts of protein and are pretty buff.

And I know there are some vegetarian body builders. I can find some links, or you can google it if you prefer.


Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: jbaggins
I know its long. i tend to write long posts. sorry. anyways, There is no NATURAL order going on. Most of the fish you eat is farm raised. Most of the beef you eat was from a cow that was intentionally bred to be a steak one day. Same with chickens, etc.

How is that natural order? We are far beyond natural order at this stage.

Originally posted by: halik
nope,
I hardly get enough amino acids and protein in my diet as is. *People* die all over the world on daily basis, so animal cruelty is really of no concern to me. I'm all for natural order.


Cliffnotes please, i read the first two paragraphs and gave up.


It's natural order because we're part of the foodchain in that way. Same reason guys surfing in australia get eaten by a shark sometime. Sucks for them, but c'est la vie.

Also I've never seen an athelete or anyone remotelly buff thats veggie. Quite the opposite actually, every single vergetarian i know is scrawny as hell. I try to eat good 150G of protein every day and that would be hardly possible with all vegetables.


there has never been a bodybuilder that got anywhere with just a veggie diet. Doesn't work that way.

 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: jbaggins
Since you brought biology into it, i have to bring those points up. We have FLAT teeth. Most plant eating animals have FLAT teeth. So, really, if you are keeping with what we are SUPPOSED to do, before we ate meat, we were probably intended to be plant eaters.

That is a completely uneducated comment. We are omnivores, and we have both flat teeth for eating plants AND sharp canines for ripping through meat.

Eating strictly plants is not natural. So to keep what we are supposed to do, you'd eat plants and animals.
 

jbaggins

Senior member
Oct 19, 2004
261
0
0
Love for dog is one thing. I said that I gained a respect for dogs and other living creatures by having one. I realize that they really do have feelings and emotions. Animal cruelty does not come into play? for you, for meat eaters? or are you saying they that killing an animal is not a cruel thing? clarification needed

Originally posted by: Patt
Humans are omnivores. I'll go long stretches without eating meat, but it is an essential part of our diet. I agree our society eats too much meat, but I still love it, and the animal cruelty part of it doesn't come into play. Of course, I buy my meats from local distributors, all of whom slaughter their meat in as humane a way as possible.

I love my dog ... but I will not ever stop eating meat.

 

Monkey muppet

Golden Member
Sep 28, 2004
1,241
0
0
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: Monkey muppet
With fish and nuts giving you the rest, plus a good mixture a the different fats the body requires.

LOL- I love it when "vegetarians" point to fish as a good source of protein. Last time I checked, fish are animals, not plants.

In a very calm and informative voice:

I did not state I was a veggie. My entry to this topic was to educate those who believe that we cannot survive without red meat "as it gives us protein and fats".

I have been a veggie and a vegan in the past. However I realized that my body required other sources of nutrients
 

What I don't understand is........... why stop eating meat......... yet go and buy those NASTY artificial "not-dogs" or veggie burgers?

I tried those veggie burgers at Sams club, they try to make them taste like meat, yet they really end up tasting like cardboard.

If you wanna stop eating meat, go right ahead, if you don't like the taste of it. But, if you like the taste, why bother stopping to eat it. It's good for you, tastes good, and always remember......

"The cow would eat you if they could.........." Gotta love the foodchain!

Phil
 

J Heartless Slick

Golden Member
Nov 11, 1999
1,330
0
0
I went vegetarian for awhile because of moral reasons. But after thinking about it, I began to question my decision. Just because plants can not get up and walk away does not make it more okay to eat them compare to eating a cow.

Now, I am back to being an omnivore
 

jbaggins

Senior member
Oct 19, 2004
261
0
0
Really, thats uneducated?

Exactly how many sharp teeth do we have and how many flat teeth?

Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: jbaggins
Since you brought biology into it, i have to bring those points up. We have FLAT teeth. Most plant eating animals have FLAT teeth. So, really, if you are keeping with what we are SUPPOSED to do, before we ate meat, we were probably intended to be plant eaters.

That is a completely uneducated comment. We are omnivores, and we have both flat teeth for eating plants AND sharp canines for ripping through meat.

Eating strictly plants is not natural. So to keep what we are supposed to do, you'd eat plants and animals.

 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
ok how abouyt MY moraility says it has nothing to do with it, IMO theres nothing morally or ethically wrong with killing an animal to eat it, i dont even care if you are asian and you eat dog, just as long as its not my dog you can wat all of it you want

we (humans) are teh top species on this planet, so everything else is there for us to consume. im sorry if you dont like this but thats just the way it is, inow if animals were intellegend and coudl talk and all that then eateing them woudl prob be bad, but seeing as they cont have cognative thought its not an issue
 

jbaggins

Senior member
Oct 19, 2004
261
0
0
911TZ is trigger happy i think

Originally posted by: Monkey muppet
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: Monkey muppet
With fish and nuts giving you the rest, plus a good mixture a the different fats the body requires.

LOL- I love it when "vegetarians" point to fish as a good source of protein. Last time I checked, fish are animals, not plants.

In a very calm and informative voice:

I did not state I was a veggie. My entry to this topic was to educate those who believe that we cannot survive without red meat "as it gives us protein and fats".

I have been a veggie and a vegan in the past. However I realized that my body required other sources of nutrients