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Ethereum GPU mining?

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piokos

Senior member
Nov 2, 2018
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The truth is, the future is distributed apps, and distributed (decentralized) web sites. Which, will be powered by... get this, block-chain technology. Which is powered by... get this, MINERS!
Blockchain solution are NOT powered by "miners". At least not the kind of "miners" you think about - running GPU rigs at home and killing this market for everyone else.

And honestly, why does this thread even exist by now? Mining at home is such a waste of time and money. Is it because people are left with piles of infrastructure from the mining bubble?
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,095
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Hmm, 115Mh/sec, per card? Not too shabby, but at what price? RX 5700/5700XT gets 48-53Mh/sec, and those cards are $300-400 new.
115MH/s is only possible if the GPU memory can be overclocked by 25-30%, and maybe.

(Memory Bandwidth) / ( DAG memory fetched per hash) = Max Theoreticical Hashrate
(211 Gigabytes / sec) / (8 kilobytes / hash) = 26.375 Megahashes/sec or 37.9 nanoseconds/hash.


The GPU memory has to be clocked at 23GT/s and that's for theoretical maximum. To actually get 115MH/s at 90% efficiency you need it to be at 25.6GT/s, which is a 35% improvement

Blockchain solution are NOT powered by "miners". At least not the kind of "miners" you think about - running GPU rigs at home and killing this market for everyone else.
And who's at fault then?
 
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piokos

Senior member
Nov 2, 2018
492
175
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And who's at fault then?
At fault of what?

Blockchain enterprise solutions use permissioned distributed ledgers, i.e. blockchains that only the select people can access.
It's like a "coin" made and used only within an organization or agreement. Obviously, the "mining" happens in datacenters, not on users' PCs.
This means the algorithm can be simpler - meaning faster platform. And there's no risk of other crypto users impacting your situation (like when cryptokitties wasted most professional Ethereum-based solutions).

If you want to learn something about it, I would suggest reading about IBM Blockchain (probably the most robust solution right now) or Hyperledger (the most popular framework - also behind IBM's platform).
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,095
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Obviously, the "mining" happens in datacenters, not on users' PCs.
Then the majority of the faults are with datacenters and those large warehouse mining facilities not PCs. You can't compare an individual buying 5-6 cards with a warehouse getting 2000.
 

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
48,834
5,327
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Blockchain enterprise solutions use permissioned distributed ledgers, i.e. blockchains that only the select people can access.
It's like a "coin" made and used only within an organization or agreement. Obviously, the "mining" happens in datacenters, not on users' PCs.
Then they're NOT decentralized. They're basically "blockchain by fiat". Which would make them pointless to serve as the basis for "the distributed web". Might as well consolidate the entire internet onto one big IBM server (as they also proposed doing, at one point). Not everything IBM does makes sense. IBM only does what makes IBM the most money, like selling tabulating machines to the Third Reich.
 
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piokos

Senior member
Nov 2, 2018
492
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Then the majority of the faults are with datacenters and those large warehouse mining facilities not PCs. You can't compare an individual buying 5-6 cards with a warehouse getting 2000.
You don't need 2000 GPUs to run a private blockchain. It can be mined on a much simpler equipment - using much less electricity
And when the blockchain becomes too complex, you can simply start a new one. You don't have to use the same blockchain for years.
We use it to speed up fast response systems and distribute computing load. There's no point in keeping a blockchain beyond a point when the computing cost kills the reason we run it.

Large public blockchains got so complex by now that it's just not possible to use them in a fast system.
Then they're NOT decentralized. They're basically "blockchain by fiat".
If few companies run a system based on blockchain, each can run their own computing node. That's the idea behind running a distributed ledger.

It occurs to me ("fiat", "decentralized") that you may not know that blockchains aren't just used in alternative payment methods. :)
Nobody asked you to step into this thread...
That's the thing about public forums... from time to time someone crashes a self-pleasuring discussion and asks a difficult question.

I opened the discussion because it made me curious that someone still discusses ETH. And then I noticed a misunderstanding in your comment so I tried to... help? Share some knowledge?
You don't want it... your choice. But don't worry, I won't stay long. :)
 
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VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
48,834
5,327
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That's the thing about public forums... from time to time someone crashes a self-pleasuring discussion and asks a difficult question.

I opened the discussion because it made me curious that someone still discusses ETH. And then I noticed a misunderstanding in your comment so I tried to... help? Share some knowledge?
You don't want it... your choice. But don't worry, I won't stay long.
But I specifically brought up decentralized apps and web sites. Not corporate "blockchains".
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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You don't need 2000 GPUs to run a private blockchain. It can be mined on a much simpler equipment - using much less electricity.
I don't think you understand how Ethereum works then. Nearly everyone, and I mean even massive mining farms use pool mining services to mine. Full nodes are no longer needed to be a miner - that period was a blip in history only true during early 2016.

If you want to run a node now, you can, but don't confuse between the two. In 2020, the two are effectively separate. Enterprises and even most blockchain services run their own node.

The reason you can't get your hands on the RTX card to play your fancy AAA game largely lies with mining farms with mind boggling amounts of GPUs, so don't blame the individuals.
 
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piokos

Senior member
Nov 2, 2018
492
175
76
I don't think you understand how Ethereum works then.
I think you misunderstood what I meant.

I have absolutely no interest and fairly limited knowledge about mining cryptocurrencies (wasting GPUs and electricity for some occasional profit). I definitely won't discuss that.

I meant using the blockchain model in a business solutions.

It occurs to me that some people still believe public coins, be it BTC, ETH or whatever, will be used in such systems. And, as a result, they may overvalue these coins.
As in @VirtualLarry 's:
The truth is, the future is distributed apps, and distributed (decentralized) web sites. Which, will be powered by... get this, block-chain technology. Which is powered by... get this, MINERS!
So, to all the people that "invest" in ETH (by either mining or buying) because they think one day a big bank like Goldman Sachs will say: "we'll be using ETH for our whatever" and value will explode, I just wanted to say: maybe try other options. :)
Instead, you'll see more and more news like this:

I know this is a difficult topic and people get emotional very quickly (especially if they already filled their basement with GPUs ;)). So that's all from me. Take care. ;)
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,371
5,282
136
@piokos

Bitcoin's blockchain was not intended from the start to be a "blockchain solution" to anything. It was to produce a unit of digital currency that could not be controlled by a central banking authority. That's it. There have been attempts to graft compute-related blockchain functions on to the BTC standard (as well as numerous forks promising the same), but at least at this point, smart contracts on BTC or any of its forks are non-existent.

Otherwise, you don't seem to understand the importance of decentralized blockchains or what corporations would want/need such things.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,095
1,628
136
I think you misunderstood what I meant.

I have absolutely no interest and fairly limited knowledge about mining cryptocurrencies (wasting GPUs and electricity for some occasional profit). I definitely won't discuss that.
You already did.

Your quote:
And honestly, why does this thread even exist by now? Mining at home is such a waste of time and money. Is it because people are left with piles of infrastructure from the mining bubble?
I know this is a difficult topic and people get emotional very quickly (especially if they already filled their basement with GPUs ;)). So that's all from me. Take care. ;)
-Starts with saying mining is a waste in a mining thread
-Then says he's "helping" when confronted
-Claims to know more than most in the thread that are actually mining
-Then when wrong says "I won't discuss that since I don't know anything about crypto"

What's that I smell? Is it a t-r-o-l-l?
 
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Shmee

Memory and Storage, Graphics Cards
Super Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
4,550
594
126
I hear 3080 does over 80MH/s in Tom's review. Will probably improve in time with better miners. I wonder how the AMD cards will do.
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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That's all? Radeon VII was running faster than that, day one.
Polaris requires 8.8GT/s memory to get 32MH/s hash rates. That means 90.9% efficiency.

Radeon VII has 2.0GT/s memory with 4096-bit width, or 1TB/s bandwidth. That's 4x the bandwidth of Polaris when both are at stock. So the VII is actually underperforming a bit compared to its memory firepower.

The RTX 3080 has 19GT/s memory with 320-bit width, or 760GB/s bandwidth. With the efficiency of Polaris we get 86MH/s. Makes perfect sense to me.

Let's say if someone got out a card with 8 HBM2 dies and 2TB/s bandwidth, they'll get an Eth mining monster with 170-190MH/s in a single card.

Edit: Timings are likely the issue with the VII. You need optimal timings to get it close to the bandwidth it should be getting at such and such frequencies.
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,095
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@IntelUser2000

I was more looking at it from a cost/benefit analysis angle. Buying a $699 3080 today to mine ETH when you could get something faster for $699 in early 2019 just seems like a bad buy.
I agree. Though little expected it would go this high again.

I'm considering a 3070 or a 3080 for a few reasons. I could replace 3 of my RX 470/570 for that card, and it would use less power. Sure its pricey but its also a brand new card and it has really good gaming performance, and I could game.

Even if I don't get it all paid off it'll significantly reduce the cost of ownership. RussianSensation when he used to be active in forums mined for the purpose of paying off the card.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
16,371
5,282
136
First test show with memory OC +1250 3080 hash 100Mh/s, +800 hash 95Mhs (power 210-240w)
Just ran a quick test: my old Radeon VII can do over 102 MH/s with 2000 MHz GPU and 1235 MHz RAM OC, at around 270W. Sadly, you would have to source an old driver since the current driver likes to downclock itself with overclocks. So bad. The NV card is more efficient at that hashrate. That's about it.
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
7,095
1,628
136
Just ran a quick test: my old Radeon VII can do over 102 MH/s with 2000 MHz GPU and 1235 MHz RAM OC, at around 270W. Sadly, you would have to source an old driver since the current driver likes to downclock itself with overclocks. So bad. The NV card is more efficient at that hashrate. That's about it.
And you have a relatively power efficient system for mining I guess? Did you keep mining eth all this time? Or only recently? Or not at all?

Like in February of this year it was NOT worth it at all to mine, even with 10 cents/KWH electricity and already paid off cards. I could not justify it. The Radeon VII is still lower in power use, maybe it made sense for you.

I feel like the VII can do a lot better, because it does fairly well on stock. I don't know, like with better HBM2 timings.
 

reb0rn

Member
Dec 31, 2009
153
8
81
Due the hyped defi scam, fee on ETH was 50-100x so mining was extra profitable for a week or so.. but it is over
 

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