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Eric Garner all over again

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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,656
8,777
136
Now that’s how you moonbeam!


you make this argument because you also believe that you have some right to name biological processes as whatever you want them to be, despite actual defined biological terms, and relevance. It is the same problem.

You need, as an outside group, the "right to name things how you want them to be named,"--how you need them to be named--otherwise your entire "moral framework" falls into an empty pool of indefensible, broken logic. (you require things that aren't life be called life, otherwise your religion can't keep you mucking around inside women's uteruses; you require social groups be named the groups you want them to be named, otherwise you have to accept your lifelong racism.)

You need to defend this reasoning because you have nothing else. Yes, you are already dwelling in that empty pool of nonsense, and everyone else knows it, but you still fight these fights because you can't tolerate the fact that the world that exists is not the one that you wish to live in. You must convince yourself of this, otherwise you have no purpose in life.

I get it, that's a tough pill to swallow. But that isn't our problem. It's yours.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
31,986
10,777
146
I don't think he's a born again, strikes me as an evangelical, though. He's admitted he's an abortion single issue voter, though.
Evangelicals are born again christians. And he represents a really big voting population's thoughts. It's really sad, and hypocritical, but it's what they do.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
31,986
10,777
146
I suppose that's literally true, I guess I have a hang up because "born again" can suggest a few different things these days.
I'm not sure what you mean. Born again Christians, imxp, encompass almost all Christian denominations. It involves giving up your life to live for Christ, often involving rituals such as baptism. There's variations, but all TMK involve some kinda of spiritual renewal while discarding your sinful life. Which, since adam and eve ate the fruit from the tree, is a sinful life just because you were born. Evangelicals are considered "born again" denominations at 100%.

I don't feel like googling this stuff, it's just from my upbringing.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
23,397
2,666
136
I'm not sure what you mean. Born again Christians, imxp, encompass almost all Christian denominations. It involves giving up your life to live for Christ, often involving rituals such as baptism. There's variations, but all TMK involve some kinda of spiritual renewal while discarding your sinful life. Which, since adam and eve ate the fruit from the tree, is a sinful life just because you were born. Evangelicals are considered "born again" denominations at 100%.

I don't feel like googling this stuff, it's just from my upbringing.
Yeah you're absolutely right. It can be literally used in almost every (every?) Christian faith just to describe baptism. I guess I've seen it most colloquially describing folks who "found faith" later, but that's just anecdotal contemporary usage.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
31,986
10,777
146
Yeah you're absolutely right. It can be literally used in almost every (every?) Christian faith just to describe baptism. I guess I've seen it most colloquially describing folks who "found faith" later, but that's just anecdotal contemporary usage.
IIRC not all denominations call it that. Catholics come to mind. Their more ritualistic with their beliefs. When I hear the term born again, I typically think of evangelicals, "holy rollers", singing and dancing in the aisles, speaking in tongues, etc...
 
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pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
17,833
1,886
126
So they are going to move officers away from units that target Violent Crimes.
o_O

I'm thinking that I want police targeting violent criminals specifically. Doesn't it also stand to reason that when going after Violent Criminals that more shooting would happen as opposed to non violent criminals.

I have a feeling that violent crimes will be on the increase shortly in NY City.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,003
9,674
136
So they are going to move officers away from units that target Violent Crimes.
o_O

I'm thinking that I want police targeting violent criminals specifically. Doesn't it also stand to reason that when going after Violent Criminals that more shooting would happen as opposed to non violent criminals.

I have a feeling that violent crimes will be on the increase shortly in NY City.
The last time the cops got pissed at the mayor they decided not to do any work. Crime and shootings went down.

Anyway this particular unit was responsible for a number of high profile shooting scandals and in general ends up killing a disproportionate number of people. Good riddance.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
17,833
1,886
126
The last time the cops got pissed at the mayor they decided not to do any work. Crime and shootings went down.

Anyway this particular unit was responsible for a number of high profile shooting scandals and in general ends up killing a disproportionate number of people. Good riddance.
Were those people violent criminals or innocent citizens?

If they were violent criminals - Meh.
If they were innocent citizens - then yeah they need to be disbanded and replaced with something better or people with better training.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
27,652
2,658
126
Were those people violent criminals or innocent citizens?

If they were violent criminals - Meh.
If they were innocent citizens - then yeah they need to be disbanded and replaced with something better or people with better training.
so glad you have high regard for life. shoot em all and let god sort em out. /S
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
78,300
11,267
126
The last time the cops got pissed at the mayor they decided not to do any work. Crime and shootings went down.

Anyway this particular unit was responsible for a number of high profile shooting scandals and in general ends up killing a disproportionate number of people. Good riddance.
I thought you were kidding.


You were not.
That puts a whole new twist on proactive policing.

But theres something I want to make clear, because I don't think enough people know.
The Broken Window Theory is not about policing.Its about how society breaks down, usually at the city level. It was coined by a sociology professor a long time ago.
MUCH LATER the police or another sociology person came up with the theory of Broken Window Policing, which believes if you start enforcing petty laws then all crime goes down.

There is considerably more evidence to support the first theory than the second.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
17,833
1,886
126
so glad you have high regard for life. shoot em all and let god sort em out. /S
I have no regard for Violent Criminals of any color creed or nationality.

I'm all for innocent victims of all colors, creeds and nationalities.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
78,300
11,267
126
More info:


In 2005, Harvard University and Suffolk University researchers worked with local police to identify 34 "crime hot spots" in Lowell, Massachusetts. In half of the spots, authorities cleared trash, fixed streetlights, enforced building codes, discouraged loiterers, made more misdemeanor arrests, and expanded mental health services and aid for the homeless. In the other half of the identified locations, there was no change to routine police service.
The areas that received additional attention experienced a 20% reduction in calls to the police. The study concluded that cleaning up the physical environment was more effective than misdemeanor arrests and that increasing social services had no effect.[30][31]
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
27,652
2,658
126
I have no regard for Violent Criminals of any color creed or nationality.

I'm all for innocent victims of all colors, creeds and nationalities.
You realize that that perspective is exactly what dehumanizes people and allows cops to violate people's civil rights and ultimately kill with impunity, right?
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,003
9,674
136
Were those people violent criminals or innocent citizens?

If they were violent criminals - Meh.
If they were innocent citizens - then yeah they need to be disbanded and replaced with something better or people with better training.
I may be old fashioned but that's up to the courts to decide. Cops aren't street judges. It's their job to apprehend suspects without excessive use of force.

This unit has a long history of problems including they somehow managed to gun down one of their own who then turned out to, conveniently, have an illegal firearm on them. Another major criticism is that they roam around the city and try to police areas they don't know (unlike the local cops) which has resulted in a series of needless violent confrontations. Disbanding this thing and directing its resources to actual community policing is truly the lowest of the low hanging fruit.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
19,312
1,006
136
If you ever get a lecture from a police officer, the first thing they say is "don't talk to the police, don't volunteer anything, avoid the police"
That's advice for anybody.
Every encounter is like a treasure hunt. If they 'like' (suspect you of any crime) you, they begin the hunt. They are not serving anyone or responding to the original complaint any more now, they are on a fishing trip.
 

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