Eric Cantor set to lose primary: Update - Lost

[fskimospy]

So are you saying Democrats are less rigid on abortion than Republicans are on immigration reform/amnesty? Really?

No, I'm saying that if you counted up all the issues that Democrats are dogmatically inflexible on and all the issues that Republicans are dogmatically inflexible on you'd end up with a much larger list for Republicans.

Again, how often do you hear conservatives talking about how someone isn't a 'real conservative' or how often do you see people being primaried for ideological deviation on the Republican side, and how often do you hear about that with Democrats?

 

[NFS4]

 

[BoberFett]

Your last comment is especially important. What happened to American exceptionalism? I also find it telling that the people heralding the demise of the American dream are doing the most to destroy it.

American exceptionalism? Nationalistic jingoism with no basis in reality. If there ever was, it died generations ago. The settlers, the depression generation, the WW2 generation. They're long gone, replaced by whiners.

Are you for or against the current primary systems and which side do you think has the disproportionate amount of lunacy?

I believe primaries, and voting in general, in the US are meaningless. The vast majority of Americans who decide who are representatives will be are imbeciles with no understanding of the past, the present, or the future. We vote for whoever we're told to vote for by family, friends, and talking heads on TV. If you tried to have a meaningful conversation with the average voter (or even the average P&N poster) without resorting to talking points and name calling, you'd be better off trying to convince the sun not shine and wind not to blow. Once upon a time I tried becoming politically active, attempting to raise the bar on communication and discussion. I gave up long ago, so now I just troll this forum to piss off the usual morons.

Democrats though flawed at least know its best not to eat your own and the local party essentially went full retard in having Cantor fall on his sword. In a few years lets have a discussion on the effectiveness of this strategy so I can have some laughs.

And you're no different. Party above all, you believe the Republicans are wrong about everything, the Democrats are right about everything, and the end goal is to mock the other team.

We get what we deserve, and what the US deserves has been a long time coming.

 

[thraashman]

republicans have done the same thing in the past.

Mitt Romney even bragged about how he used to do it.

Oo

So is it known for a fact that it was dems that crossed over to put another Angle in the spot in the hpoes that he would be so extreme that the dem would win in the district?

If the goal was to dump Cantor, it worked and I have no problem with that. On the other hand, that district is probably too red to elect a dem.

I'm not saying it's a known fact, just that it's very likely based on things like how big a difference between polling and results were and how large the increase in voters was. And it's possible doing this (assuming it did happen) will bite the dems in the ass, but I would think even some moderate Republicans might consider voting Dem over an extreme right Tea Party crackpot. (granted I guess nowadays moderate Republicans are the ones who are only twice as far right as the GOP from the 80's and 90's)

 

[nehalem256]

No, I'm saying that if you counted up all the issues that Democrats are dogmatically inflexible on and all the issues that Republicans are dogmatically inflexible on you'd end up with a much larger list for Republicans.

Again, how often do you hear conservatives talking about how someone isn't a 'real conservative' or how often do you see people being primaried for ideological deviation on the Republican side, and how often do you hear about that with Democrats?

How often do you see conservatives trying to get people fired for holding mainstream political views they disagree with?:hmm:

 

[michal1980]

hmm

the left here is blaming this on the teaparty...

but according to this, the teaparty is only taking credit after the fact and did not support Bart along the way
http://washingtonexaminer.com/tea-p...illed-he-defeated-eric-cantor/article/2549568

And the Washpost, which the left loves, is saying this was more of a vote against big business then a tea party platform.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...loss-is-especially-bad-news-for-big-business/

 

[TerryMathews]

No, I'm saying that if you counted up all the issues that Democrats are dogmatically inflexible on and all the issues that Republicans are dogmatically inflexible on you'd end up with a much larger list for Republicans.

Again, how often do you hear conservatives talking about how someone isn't a 'real conservative' or how often do you see people being primaried for ideological deviation on the Republican side, and how often do you hear about that with Democrats?

OK, so it'd be acceptable to you if they kept it to one or two really important issues then? Good to know.

 

[First]

OK, so it'd be acceptable to you if they kept it to one or two really important issues then? Good to know.

lol, yes that's exactly what he means.

Derp.

 

[nehalem256]

in the short term, because it means there's virtually no chance of anything being done on immigration reform in the next 2-3 years.

Given that "reform" is basically code for amnesty I would think that would be a reason to celebrate.

 

[fskimospy]

So you think intentionally putting forward bad candidates in the primaries, who end up in the general election, is a good thing? You really will defend any scummy practice your team practices, won't you?

No, I'm saying that your complaints about people subverting democracy by meddling in an already highly undemocratic part of the process is ridiculous.

 

[fskimospy]

You do realize that you are so so far off to the left that everything that isn't you appears to be extreme right wing? John F. Kennedy, a democrat, was more right wing than most of the GOP is today.

This is factually inaccurate; you're projecting.

First, as I've posted before, here's a measurement of mean political ideology over time:

Remember, you likely consider many of the Republicans in Congress to be unacceptably liberal, despite their record conservatism. This basically puts you off the charts to the right.

As for presidents in general:

You'll see that JFK's 1st dimension DW-NOMINATE score is somewhere around -0.5, which puts him in line with the mean Democrat today. This makes the mean Republican much, MUCH more conservative than JFK ever was.

It is a common thing for modern conservatives to think that as the parties polarize that each party has moved an equal distance from some center in the past. This is not accurate when objectively analyzing the data.

 

[kage69]

That's the kind of defeat I like to see a guy like Cantor receive. Good times.


Don't let the door hit you on the way out douchebag!

 

[Newell Steamer]

Lets prop up one of these suckers for President.

I would love to see him/her/it on national TV; spitting and frothing at the mouth about whatever the fuck they seem to be pissed off at - and all the wonderful sound bites we'll get to use for the many years to come.

Oh, and it would ensure a Democratic Presidential victory.

 

[nehalem256]

This is factually inaccurate; you're projecting.

First, as I've posted before, here's a measurement of mean political ideology over time:

Remember, you likely consider many of the Republicans in Congress to be unacceptably liberal, despite their record conservatism. This basically puts you off the charts to the right.

As for presidents in general:

You'll see that JFK's 1st dimension DW-NOMINATE score is somewhere around -0.5, which puts him in line with the mean Democrat today. This makes the mean Republican much, MUCH more conservative than JFK ever was.

It is a common thing for modern conservatives to think that as the parties polarize that each party has moved an equal distance from some center in the past. This is not accurate when objectively analyzing the data.

Now why don't I buy that Clinton was to the left of LBJ?

 

[TerryMathews]

lol, yes that's exactly what he means.

Derp.

Go away Billy, the adults are talking now.

 

[nehalem256]

Does anyone seriously think that Democrats of the 1880s are more liberal that today's Democrats?

:hmm:

EDIT:

In it, they pledged to work for "constitutional doctrines and traditions," to oppose centralization, to favor "honest money consisting of gold and silver", a "tariff for revenue only", and to put an end to Chinese immigration

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1880_Democratic_National_Convention

Sounds to me like 1880 "liberals" are actually more like today's radical conservatives.

 

[TerryMathews]

Does anyone seriously think that Democrats of the 1880s are more liberal that today's Democrats?

:hmm:

EDIT:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1880_Democratic_National_Convention

Sounds to me like 1880 "liberals" are actually more like today's radical conservatives.

See, this is where Eskimo pie's graph falls apart. Its all relative to the time period.

Looking at that graph is like looking at a price graph uncorrected for inflation.

 

[fskimospy]

See, this is where Eskimo pie's graph falls apart. Its all relative to the time period.

Looking at that graph is like looking at a price graph uncorrected for inflation.

This is untrue, the defining characteristic of DW-NOMINATE is that it rates all legislators on a common scale using bridge legislators and the established low variability of political preferences of legislators over time.

So in fact, it is literally the exact political equivalent of a price graph that IS corrected for inflation.

Before you talk about a graph 'falling apart' you should probably have a better understanding of the data that graph is based on.

 

[nehalem256]

This is untrue, the defining characteristic of DW-NOMINATE is that it rates all legislators on a common scale using bridge legislators and the established low variability of political preferences of legislators over time.

So in fact, it is literally the exact political equivalent of a price graph that IS corrected for inflation.

Before you talk about a graph 'falling apart' you should probably have a better understanding of the data that graph is based on.

Then explain why the 1880s Democrats are rated as more liberal than today's Democrats while at the same time they embraced a part platform consistent with radical tea partiers?

 

[fskimospy]

Then explain why the 1880s Democrats are rated as more liberal than today's Democrats while at the same time they embraced a part platform consistent with radical tea partiers?

Hey look who doesn't know what a first dimension DW-NOMINATE score is but wants to post about how it has to be wrong anyway.

 

[TerryMathews]

Hey look who doesn't know what a first dimension DW-NOMINATE score is but wants to post about how it has to be wrong anyway.

Hey look I would rather fling insults than answer a legitimate question.

 

[thraashman]

Hey look I would rather fling insults than answer a legitimate question.

Have you never seen nehalem post? Why the hell would eskimospy take the time to explain something to the poster least likely to understand or listen? Seriously, nehalem has probably had things intelligently explained to him more than any other poster in the history of AT, and he STILL argues proven wrong things and fails to grasp explained concepts. He's the slow kid of ATP&N and the rest of us are just tired of trying to teach him because we're not special education teachers. I wish I could convince eskimospy to just block him. The more people who block nehalem, the better this forum becomes.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

I wish I could find it again to link, but I read one article today on just how transparently opportunistic this fuck was and how toxic he was to the entire governing process. I knew a lot of it already but to see it all laid out in one place like that makes me even happier than I already was that this jackass is out.

 

[JEDI]

cantor will step down as majority leader?
surprised he wont fight to stay till the end of his term

 

[ivwshane]

cantor will step down as majority leader?
surprised he wont fight to stay till the end of his term

Why would he? At the end of his term I bet he will be taking a nice lobbying job that pays way more than he currently makes.