Erdogan Vows Turkey Will Crush U.S. 'Terror Army' in Syria (Kurdish YPG)

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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Erdogan Vows Turkey Will Crush U.S. 'Terror Army' in Syria (Kurdish YPG)

March 2018
Mar 29, 2018: Trump says U.S. will leave Syria ‘very soon’
Mar 29, 2018: Manbij: A Syrian town, threatened by Turkey, counts on US backing
Mar 27, 2018: Turkey and FSA forces close in on Tel Rifaat.
Mar 19, 2018: Erdogan Vows to Extend Offensive to East Syria, Northern Iraq.
Mar 18, 2018: Turkish military and allied rebels in ‘total control’ of Afrin city.
Mar 15, 2018: Turkey: 'We won't give Afrin back to Syrian regime'
Mar 14, 2018: Water to Syria's Afrin has now been cut for a week
Mar 13, 2018: Afrin: Turkish forces 'encircle' Syrian Kurdish city
Mar 06, 2018: Kurds pull back from ISIS fight in Syria, saying U.S. ‘let us down’
Mar 06, 2018: Turkey to set up refugee camps near Syria's Idlib
Mar 05, 2018: Afrin: Syria's other front line

February 2018
Feb 28, 2018: Reports that Turkey has been 'indiscriminately shelling civilians in Afrin'
Feb 26, 2018: Turkey deploys special forces for ‘new phase of battle’
Feb 26, 2018: UN ceasefire applies to all Syria, ‘including Afrin,’ Macron tells Erdogan
Feb 22, 2018: Syrian aid convoy under Turkish artillery fire | Syrian Militias Enter Afrin, Dealing a Setback to Turkey
Feb 20, 2018: Pro-Syrian regime forces enter Afrin to support Kurdish fighters
Feb 19, 2018: Turkey warns Assad not to intervene in Kurdish enclave
Feb 04, 2018: Syria war: Turkey suffers deadliest day in Afrin offensive
Feb 03, 2018: Turkey... boasts of killing 897 militants | Loses 3 soldiers | Army is nearing Afrin city.

January 2018
Jan 28, 2018: Kurds Accuse Turks of Dropping Napalm | Turkey captures Mt Bursaya near Afrin
Jan 26, 2018: Turkey's Erdogan vows to fight Kurdish forces as far as Iraq
Jan 25, 2018: Turkey to U.S.: End support for Syrian Kurd YPG or risk confrontation
Jan 21, 2018: Assad, France and Egypt reject Turkish Afrin operation
Jan 19, 2018: Turkey begins assault on Kurdish-held enclave

Original Post:
Jan 15, 2018: Turkey Will Crush U.S. 'Terror Army' in Northern Syria, President Erdogan Vows
The U.S.-led coalition announced Sunday it would be working with the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), which are led by Kurdish militia the YPG, to set up a new 30,000-strong force to secure Syria's northern border with Turkey, as well as the eastern border with Iraq.

Turkey regards the YPG as a terrorist group...


Ouch. Apparently the United States used the Kurds to secure Syria from the Iraqi side, but now as we try to establish order in Syria following the fall of ISIS, Turkey is threatening all out violence and war to prevent the Kurds from being part of the peace process. The ultimatum from Turkey to the Kurds is, essentially, surrender or be killed.

Think we'll leave the Kurds to their fate? One assumes the United States will not engage a member of NATO in combat.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
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Turkey is risking civil war themselves if they move forward on this in anything more than small moves. And I don't see a civil war going for them any better than it went for Syria. And while I'm sure Russia and Syria (and Iran, hell Iraq too) would be happy to help Turkey fight the Kurds, I'm not sure Turkey really wants them for allies. Erdogan knows that buddying up with Russia and the others isn't going to be exactly prosperous (which will further seed chaos for him), but he's getting backed into a corner (due to his own fault it must be said), so he's going to resort to radical means to maintain power.

If the Eastern block picks up Turkey, that'd be much closer to balancing the power of conventional forces between NATO and Russia / Chinese allies. And their regional borders / global reach would take a big leap forward.

Don't agree. It would benefit them, but gaining Turkey wouldn't be that strategic of a victory. And the thing is, all involved have their own motivations which regularly causes issues for the others.

Hell, I'm not sure how on board China would even be with it, as they're trying to legitimize themselves in the international community, and any serious attempt at dealing with the Kurds is going to basically require genocide to be effective, and that's not going to make China look good defending that. It'd probably even be seen as an opportunity for China to gain influence by taking lead diplomatic role which would probably come at the expense of Russia (and if China starts becoming a force in the mideast, that's gonna hit Russia's fossil fuel sales to China, further minimizing Russian power).

And even though they would probably really like to help Turkey take out the Kurds, I expect Turkey will be largely left to go it alone by Syria/Iran/Russia/Iraq, as they have to know that things could quickly turn bad for them (there's some in the US government that have been eagerly looking for a reason to go after Iran, Israel would love a reason to go after Hezbollah hard). And besides they relied on Kurdish help for dealing with ISIS. And they know the Kurds won't be easy. Knowing the US is supporting them has to make them wary on its own (Russia is desperately trying to stroke their military ego, but they're not far removed from being embarrassed fighting Georgia, and that would be nothing compared to what they'd encounter with the Kurds - and that's if the US doesn't decide to make that area a no fly zone and make a point of enforcing it - we've already deployed F-22s to the region, and them combined with the rest of our air force, would curbstomp Russia's air power in the region bad, and that will leave their forces very vulnerable; and without Russian might backing them, Syria's government becomes a sitting duck, should Israel, the US, NATO or maybe Saudi Arabia decide that its about time that Assad needs to go). I almost wonder if a lot of them (Iraq, Iran) wouldn't even like to see that, let the Kurds inherit most of Syria. Frankly that would probably be the best route for Turkey too (I actually think that was a big part of their stance of supporting NATO and being anti-Syria, they were hoping Assad would be toppled and the Kurds would see that as an opportunity to firmly establish Kurdistan as a full country, within some already recognized borders).
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,435
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Turkey begins assault on Kurdish-held enclave
"...It has begun. All terror networks and elements in northern Syria will be eliminated. There is no other way."

First step, Afrin. Smart choice as it'll unite territory held by rebels loyal to Turkey, and most US military are likely embedded on the eastern side of Syria where ISIS existed. Afrin is an isolated pocket held by the Kurds. I suggest we start evacuating any remaining troops from Syria.

7sT4vlk.png
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
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Turkey Will Crush U.S. 'Terror Army' in Northern Syria, President Erdogan Vows
The U.S.-led coalition announced Sunday it would be working with the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), which are led by Kurdish militia the YPG, to set up a new 30,000-strong force to secure Syria's northern border with Turkey, as well as the eastern border with Iraq.

Turkey regards the YPG as a terrorist group...


Ouch. Apparently the United States used the Kurds to secure Syria from the Iraqi side, but now as we try to establish order in Syria following the fall of ISIS, Turkey is threatening all out violence and war to prevent the Kurds from being part of the peace process. The ultimatum from Turkey to the Kurds is, essentially, surrender or be killed.

Think we'll leave the Kurds to their fate? One assumes the United States will not engage a member of NATO in combat.

What a shock our adventure in Syria has drawn in more parties. And may potentially bring us to armed conflict with an alliance member. If only we had the opportunity years ago to not get involved.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
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Looks like team Trump is sending Turkey into Russia's arms. More blundering from the stable genius and crew.

More idiocy from people who don't understand the big picture and who think that everything on Earth is Post Trump, Ergo Propter Trump.

Turkey has been turning towards Russia and away from the Western Bloc for a long time now. It happened long before Trump and it's primarily based on what Europe has been doing to them, not what we're doing to them.
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
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More idiocy from people who don't understand the big picture and who think that everything on Earth is Post Trump, Ergo Propter Trump.

Turkey has been turning towards Russia and away from the Western Bloc for a long time now. It happened long before Trump and it's primarily based on what Europe has been doing to them, not what we're doing to them.
Turkey has been a unique country in that they are a mix of different philosophies that haven't adhered to a typical Muslim stance. Having Turkey in NATO has enabled us to do many things in the ME that would otherwise be very difficult to accomplish. With the current (lack) of leadership they will probably go past the point of no return ending their membership and altering the balance of power in the region.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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Assad, France and Egypt reject Turkish Afrin operation
Egypt, Syria and France on Sunday urged Turkey to stop their offensive against Kurdish fighters after the Turkish army and Turkish-backed rebels attempted to attack and enter the Afrin region, a day after Turkey launched fierce air strikes on the city.

Yeah, more destruction is just what Syria needs. And it appears the United States is absent on the world stage. By not condemning it, or threatening to act against it, surely we are condoning it. Turkey is too important to lose as an "Ally" right, no matter their decent into madness?

Meanwhile, if you're in Turkey... you've been ordered to stay silent or be silenced.

Erdogan warns pro-Kurdish not to protest
Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan warned supporters of the pro-Kurdish opposition not to protest the military’s operation in northern Syria, saying security forces would intervene if they demonstrated.
 
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sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
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Assad, France and Egypt reject Turkish Afrin operation
Egypt, Syria and France on Sunday urged Turkey to stop their offensive against Kurdish fighters after the Turkish army and Turkish-backed rebels attempted to attack and enter the Afrin region, a day after Turkey launched fierce air strikes on the city.

Yeah, more destruction is just what Syria needs. And it appears the United States is absent on the world stage. By not condemning it, or threatening to act against it, surely we are condoning it. Turkey is too important to lose as an "Ally" right, no matter their decent into madness?

Meanwhile, if you're in Turkey... you've been ordered to stay silent or be silenced.

Erdogan warns pro-Kurdish not to protest
Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan warned supporters of the pro-Kurdish opposition not to protest the military’s operation in northern Syria, saying security forces would intervene if they demonstrated.

This is Turkey's backyard, so what the US has to say, especially after all the US meddling in the region, is muted. It's a mess with the Kurds that affects 4 nations(IIRC) and of course the Kurds themselves.
 

Oric

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Oct 11, 1999
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USA has sent 3,000 truck loads of ammunition and weapons to Kurds in Syria and started talking about a "border force". A border force against NATO-ally Turkey ? I can send the links if you require the details of this story.

Therefore, this is just Turkey undoing what USA is trying to do, nothing more.

“We recognize Turkey has a legitimate interest in the security of its borders,” the spokesman told reporters. “The UK is committed to working closely with Turkey and other allies to find solutions that provide stability, refrain from escalating the situation and protect Turkey’s security interests.”

--- Spoke person of Theresa May, PM UK
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,435
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USA has sent 3,000 truck loads of ammunition and weapons to Kurds in Syria and started talking about a "border force". A border force against NATO-ally Turkey ? I can send the links if you require the details of this story.

Therefore, this is just Turkey undoing what USA is trying to do, nothing more.

I have no reason to question that we "built up" the Kurds in our fight against ISIS. Of course we did. I also imagine we were going to leave them as a presence in the region to hold and protect territory against future outbreaks of ISIS. If Turkey breaks the Kurds today, there will be no one to stop terrorism in Syria tomorrow. Your nation is acting in error, leaving the former ISIS territory open to resurgence.

And for what? What is so terrible that the Kurds have demanded from Turkey? It looks like the violent oppression of a minority.
 
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Mar 11, 2004
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USA has sent 3,000 truck loads of ammunition and weapons to Kurds in Syria and started talking about a "border force". A border force against NATO-ally Turkey ? I can send the links if you require the details of this story.

Therefore, this is just Turkey undoing what USA is trying to do, nothing more.

“We recognize Turkey has a legitimate interest in the security of its borders,” the spokesman told reporters. “The UK is committed to working closely with Turkey and other allies to find solutions that provide stability, refrain from escalating the situation and protect Turkey’s security interests.”

--- Spoke person of Theresa May, PM UK

No, its not a border force against Turkey. If anything its actually beefing up Turkey's border against Syria, and the fighting from it. Its a border force because that's where the groups are located. The Kurds straddle Turkey, Syria, Iran, and Iraq.

No, its about Erdogan fearing for his own power, because he sees any arming of Kurds as arming his enemies, because Turkish Kurds have been outspoken against his dictatorial methods.

I have no reason to question that we "built up" the Kurds in our fight against ISIS. Of course we did. I also imagine we were going to leave them as a presence in the region to hold and protect territory against future outbreaks of ISIS. If Turkey breaks the Kurds today, there will be no one to stop terrorism in Syria tomorrow. Your nation is acting in error, leaving the former ISIS territory open to resurgence.

And for what? What is so terrible that the Kurds have demanded from Turkey? It looks like the violent oppression of a minority.

We've been pretty ok with the Kurds for a while now (before ISIS even I believe, hell I think Saddam's treatment of them is what turned us against him and could be argued was what actually led to the first Gulf War; although at the time we supported his claim that it was Iran that did that, but we knew the truth and then started looking at ways of keeping him in check, which is why we were so ready to go when he invaded Kuwait). Exactly, they have shown an ability to fight extremist groups (and regimes, they've taken hard hits from Iran, Iraq, and Syria and yet they continue to grow) and bring overall stability to the region.

The Kurds have a healthy presence in Turkey and have been growing in influence/power. Erdogan views them as the most likely (internal group) to be able to topple him, so this is all about him trying to get a stranglehold on power in his own country.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
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Turkey to U.S.: End support for Syrian Kurd YPG or risk confrontation
ANKARA/BEIRUT (Reuters) - Turkey urged the United States on Thursday to halt its support for Kurdish YPG fighters or risk confronting Turkish forces on the ground in Syria, some of Ankara’s strongest comments yet about a potential clash with its NATO ally.
...
The United States has around 2,000 troops in Syria, officially as part of an international, U.S.-led coalition against Islamic State. Washington has angered Ankara by providing arms, training and air support to Syrian Kurdish forces that Turkey views as terrorists.
...
U.S. forces were deployed in and around Manbij
to deter Turkish and U.S.-backed rebels from attacking each other and have also carried out training missions in the area.

So there's the issue. If Turkey moves on Manbij they'll be moving on US troops. Turkey has already threatened to do so.

Possible jitters among NATO allies?
Germany suspends upgrade to Turkey tanks
The German government has put plans on hold to upgrade German-made tanks used by Turkey amid a public outcry over a Turkish offensive in northern Syria.
 
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crashtech

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Turkey has proven an erstwhile ally under Erdogan, party because of US support for Iraqi Kurdistan and Kurds in general, and partly because Erdogan is a conservative Islamist in a Western suit. Kurd controlled territory has some of the most moderate Muslim rule there is, based on this, the US continues to lend them support, but meanwhile, Kurds are an oppressed second-class minority in Turkey. It's a tough question what to do at this point; while Turkey has had a fairly moderate Muslim government, and is an important buffer state in the region, Kurds have been portrayed in the media as not only historically oppressed and without a true homeland, but more inclined toward democracy and engagement with the West than practically any other majority Muslim group. How much of that is actually true is hard to say, but a few investigative reports I read a long time ago seemed to lend credence to the media view. If Turkey had a different leader, it would be much easier to play both sides of the fence, as it stands, it will be a difficult balancing act for the US to set up circumstances where Erdogan can say he has been successful at containing the Kurds, while still engaging in a more low-profile support role for the Kurds.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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Turkey's Erdogan vows to fight Kurdish forces as far as Iraq
The Turkish president told a meeting of his AK party that he was prepared to expand so-called Operation Olive Branch "until there is no terrorist on our border leading to Iraq".
...
He said that after Afrin was cleared, "we will, as promised, clean up Manbij of terrorists".

That explains to threat Erdogan made to us. He plans to pursue the Kurds through ALL of Syria, and we have 2,000 troops on the ground.

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