Elton John says religion promotes homophobia

[Number1]

Originally posted by: bsobel

No matter what you are arguing or how much support you have, once you invoke "Nazis" or the like into a debate you instantly are labeled a 'tard and lose.

I belive my comment, in the context given (as an example of a belief system that was banned by others, thereby not making it a choice) is a valid exception to Godwin's law.

As an example, if I said YOU were a Nazi for being religious, that is the kind of statement Godwin's law was intended to curtail

Good save.

 

[Fritzo]

No, the thought of Elton John naked with another dude promotes homophobia. If that picture doesn't scare you, nothing will.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: bsobel

feel free to choose the "90+%" of wars :roll:

Wow, you really don't know world history at all apparently. Religion (thru the ages) has been the primary driving force for war. I suggest you finish your 9th grade world history class when you get around ot it:

Some famous ones you may have hear of:
The French Wars of Religion 1562-1598 (7 of em)
Eurpoean Religious Wars (generally the time between 1560 and 1715)
American Civil War (if you are unclear about the religious issues in our revolutionary war, well, go back to school you failed history).
The Crusades
The Reconquista
Armenian genocide

The first and second congo wars (3.8 million died) topping most of the conflicts you mentioned sans WWII. Of course 10million dead in WWII can be attributed to religious presecution of Jews, Catholics, and Gypsies.

Current conflicts and wars:
(It is important to realize that most of the world's current "hot spots" have a complex interaction of economic, racial, ethnic, religious, and other factors. This list is of conflicts which have as their base at least some degree of religious intolerance):

Darfur
Afghanistan
Bosnia
Cote d'lvoire
Cypruss
East Timor
India
Ambon (Indonesia)
Halmahera (Indonesia)
Iraq
Haskmir
Kosovo
Kurdistan
Macedonia
Israel / Arab states
Nigeria
Northern Ireland
Pakistan
Philippines
Russia / Chechnya
South Afrika
Sri Lanka
Sudan
Thailand
TIbet
Uganda

If your going to ask, for example, how Iraq is a religous war bear in mind the conflict (regardless of how it started) is now primarily between western armed forces, Kurds, Shite Muslims, Sunni Muslims. By mid 2006 the relgioius groups were in a civil war amongst themselves.

If you know anything about any of these conflicts, you should be able to discuss the religous angle without rolling your eyes (and looking just stupid in that stunning rebuttal).

Umm, many of those wars, while subject to religious tension, are not primarily caused by religion. Although, please teach me about why the civil war was caused by religion

 

[RapidSnail]

I'm glad I don't belong to a religion.

 

[bsobel]

please teach me about why the civil war was caused by religion

Fingers are faster than brain, that should have read American Revolutionary War (per the comment on it). My bad.

 

[everman]

I wouldn't give much extra weight to someone's opinion just because they're a famous musician.

 

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
who gives a shite what elton john thinks? I mean really... he is elton john!!!

I'm always interested to hear what he has to say. He's grown into the role of elder statesman of the gay community, and he is representative of a certain (older) generation of gay men. I'm much more interested in his opinion than say the opinion of some kook like the Pope.

If he is the elder stateman for the gay community.. then that that is really sad for the gay community. Not because you guys are gay... but because the best you can find for an elder statesman is elton john.

 

[Gilligansdingy]

you know my motto

DOWN WITH GOD, DOWN WITH RELIGON


Time to lead the sheep to the slaughter house.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Fritzo
No, the thought of Elton John naked with another dude promotes homophobia. If that picture doesn't scare you, nothing will.

it's no more nauseating than e.g., the thought of Barbara Bush naked with George Bush Snr

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
who gives a shite what elton john thinks? I mean really... he is elton john!!!

I'm always interested to hear what he has to say. He's grown into the role of elder statesman of the gay community, and he is representative of a certain (older) generation of gay men. I'm much more interested in his opinion than say the opinion of some kook like the Pope.

If he is the elder stateman for the gay community.. then that that is really sad for the gay community. Not because you guys are gay... but because the best you can find for an elder statesman is elton john.

Gandalf > you

 

[Dumac]

Organized religion pushes me away from faith, which is the opposite of it's purpose. People get too caught up in all of the rules, scriptures, and morals denominations set, while at the same time forgetting the basic huministic points of most religions. I usually would agree that a organized religion, on a grand scale, is just a farce to control a mass, rather than worship a God. I also do not believe that I should need a middleman between me and any God there might be. I find myself perfectly capable of pursuing any religious act I may wish.

I wanted to say a lot more, but I'm tired.

 

[zerocool1]

perhaps he just means that we should be more mindful of the messages that religion sends to us. religion should not be hateful by any stretch of the imagination. I'm religious in that I believe that we need something to bring us together religion is probably the strongest and in some historical cases the worst way to go about it. Maybe that's just me speaking as a humanist.

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
who gives a shite what elton john thinks? I mean really... he is elton john!!!

I'm always interested to hear what he has to say. He's grown into the role of elder statesman of the gay community, and he is representative of a certain (older) generation of gay men. I'm much more interested in his opinion than say the opinion of some kook like the Pope.

If he is the elder stateman for the gay community.. then that that is really sad for the gay community. Not because you guys are gay... but because the best you can find for an elder statesman is elton john.

Plus Ian Mcellan is way more badass.

On EJ, artists say silly things, you have to seperate the art from the artist sometimes. I don't think he's wrong but then again being gay he should understand understanding more than most.

 

[biggestmuff]

Originally posted by: Sureshot324

LONDON ? Organized religion fuels anti-gay discrimination and other forms of bias, pop star Elton John said in an interview published Saturday.

?I think religion has always tried to turn hatred towards gay people,? John said in the Observer newspaper's Music Monthly Magazine. ?Religion promotes the hatred and spite against gays.?

?But there are so many people I know who are gay and love their religion,? he said. ?From my point of view, I would ban religion completely. Organized religion doesn't seem to work. It turns people into really hateful lemmings and it's not really compassionate.?

Religious leaders have also failed to do anything about tensions and conflicts around the world, he said.

?Why aren't they having a conclave? Why aren't they coming together?? he asked.

John said those in his own field have been similarly lax.

?It's like the peace movement in the '60s. Musicians got through to people by getting out there and doing peace concerts, but we don't seem to do them any more,? he said. ?If John Lennon were alive today, he'd be leading it with a vengeance.?

Wow. That's a pretty huge generalization, but I can't say I disagree entirely. Many religious people are resistant to social change because they feel like they would be betraying their religion.

How...tolerant of him. :roll:

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Fritzo
No, the thought of Elton John naked with another dude promotes homophobia. If that picture doesn't scare you, nothing will.

it's no more nauseating than e.g., the thought of Barbara Bush naked with George Bush Snr

This coming from a guy who looks like a Holocaust survivor.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
If he thinks he can freely say religion should be banned entirely, how is that any different from homophobes who want to eliminate homosexuality? Fvcking hypocrite...

banning organized religion is like banning the nuclear bomb - it benefits everyone.

whereas criminalizing homosexuality doesn't benefit anyone.

banning homosexuality would allow us to lock up an idiot like you.

Too bad we can't lock up people for being stupid...

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124

Originally posted by: bsobel

Sorry to tell you buddy, you're just as big of a hypocrite as Sir Elton John here. The right to follow a religion, and the right to be homosexual, are both choices anyone is free to make.

Please don't open the homosexuality is a choice/genetic debate. Second religion is practically 'genetic' in that 99% of people follow the religion of their parent. It's indoctrination.

We outlawed the Nazi party after WW2. It was people's choice to join it, but we decided it was for the better good that they didn't have that choice to make.

Personally, I wouldn't outlaw all religion. Just western ones, you know, the ones that all believe in the same god but walk around killing each other since we choose a different name for them or have a different list of 'approved' propehts. Oh, agast, 5000 years ago my great great great (etc) grandmother was not Abrahams wife but his slave (or vice versa).....

If homosexuality isn't a choice, what the fvck is it? Nobody is standing over your back telling you you NEED to be gay, and likewise, NOBODY is forcing you to follow a religion. I hope you didn't learn making comparisons from aidanjm, because the Nazi party very clearly outlined it's racist attitude towards Jews. Last time I checked, being heterosexual in no way makes you a homophobe, AND VICE VERSA FOR HOMOSEXUALS. Lately, I'm seeing more heterophobes and less homophobes.

EDIT: I'm finished with this thread, trying to talk with either of you is like talking to a 5 year old.

So, I guess you could go either way then? You made a conscious choice to be straight?

 

[moshquerade]

Elton John promotes homophobia

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
If he thinks he can freely say religion should be banned entirely, how is that any different from homophobes who want to eliminate homosexuality? Fvcking hypocrite...

banning organized religion is like banning the nuclear bomb - it benefits everyone.

whereas criminalizing homosexuality doesn't benefit anyone.

Sorry to tell you buddy, you're just as big of a hypocrite as Sir Elton John here. The right to follow a religion, and the right to be homosexual, are both choices anyone is free to make. The difference between you and I is that I have absolutely no problem with you being gay, although I might not agree with it, I'm not going to try and stop you. You on the other hand, seem to have a big problem with religion. Well, you can bite me for all I care, because you're a hypocrite and have the reasoning of a homophobic 5 year old.
</rant>

blah blah blah

it is idiotic to think Elton John actually wants all religion to be banned. it is quite obvious that his comments are an expression of his frustration at the perverted, corrupting influence that christianity has on the lives of its adherents and the harmful effects christianity has on the lives of lesbians and gays. People tend to make exaggerated, extreme statements when they are frustrated. But I am 100% certain that if you were to ask him if he SERIOUSLY thinks it would be a good idea, or even feasible, to completely ban religion, on reflection he would say no it is not a good idea.

Wrong.

Elton John is just spewing out crap because he has nothing of substance to say in the first place; just like Bono.

 

[Smartazz]

Christianity was illegal in ancient Rome because the Roman government wanted uniformity. It didn't work, people gave up their lives for their religion. Persecutions and executions persisted until Christianity was legal. I think a similar set of events would occur if anybody tried that today.

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: bsobel

feel free to choose the "90+%" of wars :roll:

Wow, you really don't know world history at all apparently. Religion (thru the ages) has been the primary driving force for war. I suggest you finish your 9th grade world history class when you get around ot it:

Some famous ones you may have hear of:
The French Wars of Religion 1562-1598 (7 of em)
Eurpoean Religious Wars (generally the time between 1560 and 1715)
American Civil War (if you are unclear about the religious issues in our revolutionary war, well, go back to school you failed history).

See that bolded part?

It means you just failed at History.

The cause of the Civil War was State's Rights. Not slavery or freedom of religion.

I am not even American and I know that.

You should really have not quit school at Grade 5.

 

[cherrytwist]

P&N?

Anyone?

 

[Smartazz]

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Originally posted by: bsobel

feel free to choose the "90+%" of wars :roll:

Wow, you really don't know world history at all apparently. Religion (thru the ages) has been the primary driving force for war. I suggest you finish your 9th grade world history class when you get around ot it:

Some famous ones you may have hear of:
The French Wars of Religion 1562-1598 (7 of em)
Eurpoean Religious Wars (generally the time between 1560 and 1715)
American Civil War (if you are unclear about the religious issues in our revolutionary war, well, go back to school you failed history).

See that bolded part?

It means you just failed at History.

The cause of the Civil War was State's Rights. Not slavery or freedom of religion.

I am not even American and I know that.

You should really have not quit school at Grade 5.

Actually I've heard a lot of people make that mistake. But I think Iron Woode is right.

 

[postmortemIA]

religion will be useful in years to come... when Earth becomes overpopulated, I think people from one certain religion will be first to go.

 

[bobdelt]

Originally posted by: CitizenDoug
The cause of 90% + of all wars: You guessed it.

And thou shalt (not) kill

Thats simply... a) not true b) in the past a lot more people were religious, by law, so of course wars would be labled that way.

Almost every war I can think has not been religious.