Elton John says religion promotes homophobia

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
If he thinks he can freely say religion should be banned entirely, how is that any different from homophobes who want to eliminate homosexuality? Fvcking hypocrite...

banning organized religion is like banning the nuclear bomb - it benefits everyone.

whereas criminalizing homosexuality doesn't benefit anyone.

banning homosexuality would allow us to lock up an idiot like you.

do I get a hot cell mate?

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
I know lot's of really good people who consider themselves Christians.

Most of them are also terribly intolerant of things that fall outside of their concept of how things "should be". I can manage to be around them without incident because I avoid politics in conversation and I never EVER talk religion with them. To most of them my silence is the same as approval and that allows me to be fit neatly somewhere their world view.

I often wonder what they'd say if I told them that I am an agnostic who couldn't care less what the gay population did. I somehow think that these "good" people wouldn't be so nice to me anymore...

I can relate. I work with people of various religions, and one day we got on the subject. One guy (a Muslim, actually) was utterly dumbfounded that I don't believe in any kind of higher power. While I don't discount the possibility of one or more such higher powers existence, I do not go out of my way to "believe" in such.

This was utterly outside of his worldview, and I think that's the last time we discussed religion.

 

[EvilYoda]

I'd agree with that sentiment...I'm trying to think of any other major force behind the promotion of homophobia and I'm coming up empty.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
If he thinks he can freely say religion should be banned entirely, how is that any different from homophobes who want to eliminate homosexuality? Fvcking hypocrite...

banning organized religion is like banning the nuclear bomb - it benefits everyone.

whereas criminalizing homosexuality doesn't benefit anyone.

banning homosexuality would allow us to lock up an idiot like you.

do I get a hot cell mate?

you get locked up in a prison for conservative Christian women

 

[0roo0roo]

you cant ban. you could however discourage. like how racist organizations are shunned

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
If he thinks he can freely say religion should be banned entirely, how is that any different from homophobes who want to eliminate homosexuality? Fvcking hypocrite...

banning organized religion is like banning the nuclear bomb - it benefits everyone.

whereas criminalizing homosexuality doesn't benefit anyone.

Sorry to tell you buddy, you're just as big of a hypocrite as Sir Elton John here. The right to follow a religion, and the right to be homosexual, are both choices anyone is free to make. The difference between you and I is that I have absolutely no problem with you being gay, although I might not agree with it, I'm not going to try and stop you. You on the other hand, seem to have a big problem with religion. Well, you can bite me for all I care, because you're a hypocrite and have the reasoning of a homophobic 5 year old.
</rant>

blah blah blah

it is idiotic to think Elton John actually wants all religion to be banned. it is quite obvious that his comments are an expression of his frustration at the perverted, corrupting influence that christianity has on the lives of its adherents and the harmful effects christianity has on the lives of lesbians and gays. People tend to make exaggerated, extreme statements when they are frustrated. But I am 100% certain that if you were to ask him if he SERIOUSLY thinks it would be a good idea, or even feasible, to completely ban religion, on reflection he would say no it is not a good idea.

Really, then if I said homosexuality should be banned it would be idiotic to think I really meant it :roll: You'd have to ask me if I really meant it to see if that were true.

Wake up, this isn't 2nd grade; if you want to debate, stay consistent, don't jump from excuse to excuse. Let me tell you something, I really don't mind gay people. I do however, hate ignorant hypocrites, and you fit the profile perfectly, gay or not.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
If he thinks he can freely say religion should be banned entirely, how is that any different from homophobes who want to eliminate homosexuality? Fvcking hypocrite...

banning organized religion is like banning the nuclear bomb - it benefits everyone.

whereas criminalizing homosexuality doesn't benefit anyone.

banning homosexuality would allow us to lock up an idiot like you.

Quoted for mods.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: CitizenDoug
The cause of 90% + of all wars: You guessed it.

And thou shalt (not) kill

really? vietnam, iraq, iraq ii, wwi, wwii, civil war, korean war, falkland islands, mexican war, revolutionary war, war of 1812, 100 years war, ...

First off he said all wars, congratulations on picking how some of the 10%.

Second off, to the OP, it's thou shall not murder. BIG DIFFERENCE from thou shall not kill.

 

[chambersc]

How is Elton wrong?

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: CitizenDoug
The cause of 90% + of all wars: You guessed it.

And thou shalt (not) kill

really? vietnam, iraq, iraq ii, wwi, wwii, civil war, korean war, falkland islands, mexican war, revolutionary war, war of 1812, 100 years war, ...

First off he said all wars, congratulations on picking how some of the 10%.

Second off, to the OP, it's thou shall not murder. BIG DIFFERENCE from thou shall not kill.

feel free to choose the "90+%" of wars :roll:

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: chambersc
How is Elton wrong?

hes not

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
Wake up, this isn't 2nd grade; if you want to debate,

it's not 2nd grade, it is ATOT, where 90% of comments are made tongue in cheek. If I wanted to debate, I'd be in the P&N forum.

 

[bsobel]

Sorry to tell you buddy, you're just as big of a hypocrite as Sir Elton John here. The right to follow a religion, and the right to be homosexual, are both choices anyone is free to make.

Please don't open the homosexuality is a choice/genetic debate. Second religion is practically 'genetic' in that 99% of people follow the religion of their parent. It's indoctrination.

We outlawed the Nazi party after WW2. It was people's choice to join it, but we decided it was for the better good that they didn't have that choice to make.

Personally, I wouldn't outlaw all religion. Just western ones, you know, the ones that all believe in the same god but walk around killing each other since we choose a different name for them or have a different list of 'approved' propehts. Oh, agast, 5000 years ago my great great great (etc) grandmother was not Abrahams wife but his slave (or vice versa).....

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
Wake up, this isn't 2nd grade; if you want to debate,

it's not 2nd grade, it is ATOT, where 90% of comments are made tongue in cheek. If I wanted to debate, I'd be in the P&N forum.

Wonderful, now you're taking things out of context. I'm not making any comments tongue in cheek, but you're having one hard time keeping up. Stop trying to justify his statement, it's bigoted and hypocritical, and so are you. Nobody is out to get you because you're gay, I, however, am out to get you because your head is 2 feet up your ass.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Sorry to tell you buddy, you're just as big of a hypocrite as Sir Elton John here. The right to follow a religion, and the right to be homosexual, are both choices anyone is free to make.

Please don't open the homosexuality is a choice/genetic debate. Second religion is practically 'genetic' in that 99% of people follow the religion of their parent. It's indoctrination.

We outlawed the Nazi party after WW2. It was people's choice to join it, but we decided it was for the better good that they didn't have that choice to make.

Personally, I wouldn't outlaw all religion. Just western ones, you know, the ones that all believe in the same god but walk around killing each other since we choose a different name for them or have a different list of 'approved' propehts. Oh, agast, 5000 years ago my great great great (etc) grandmother was not Abrahams wife but his slave (or vice versa).....

If homosexuality isn't a choice, what the fvck is it? Nobody is standing over your back telling you you NEED to be gay, and likewise, NOBODY is forcing you to follow a religion. I hope you didn't learn making comparisons from aidanjm, because the Nazi party very clearly outlined it's racist attitude towards Jews. Last time I checked, being heterosexual in no way makes you a homophobe, AND VICE VERSA FOR HOMOSEXUALS. Lately, I'm seeing more heterophobes and less homophobes.

EDIT: I'm finished with this thread, trying to talk with either of you is like talking to a 5 year old.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
Wake up, this isn't 2nd grade; if you want to debate,

it's not 2nd grade, it is ATOT, where 90% of comments are made tongue in cheek. If I wanted to debate, I'd be in the P&N forum.

Wonderful, now you're taking things out of context. I'm not making any comments tongue in cheek, but you're having one hard time keeping up. Stop trying to justify his statement, it's bigoted and hypocritical, and so are you. Nobody is out to get you because you're gay, I, however, am out to get you because your head is 2 feet up your ass.

Hostility or skepticism towards a belief system or ideology (which is what religion is) is not bigotry.

I personally have no problem with Elton's comments. I take them as an expression of his frustration at the harmful effects that christianity has on the lives of lesbians and gays. You are missing the forrest for the trees. Get some perspective.

 

[chambersc]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Sorry to tell you buddy, you're just as big of a hypocrite as Sir Elton John here. The right to follow a religion, and the right to be homosexual, are both choices anyone is free to make.

Please don't open the homosexuality is a choice/genetic debate. Second religion is practically 'genetic' in that 99% of people follow the religion of their parent. It's indoctrination.

We outlawed the Nazi party after WW2. It was people's choice to join it, but we decided it was for the better good that they didn't have that choice to make.

Personally, I wouldn't outlaw all religion. Just western ones, you know, the ones that all believe in the same god but walk around killing each other since we choose a different name for them or have a different list of 'approved' propehts. Oh, agast, 5000 years ago my great great great (etc) grandmother was not Abrahams wife but his slave (or vice versa).....

No matter what you are arguing or how much support you have, once you invoke "Nazis" or the like into a debate you instantly are labeled a 'tard and lose.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: aidanjm
Hostility or skepticism towards a belief system or ideology (which is what religion is) is not bigotry.

Are you sure about that? http://www.answers.com/bigot

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: chambersc

Originally posted by: bsobel

Sorry to tell you buddy, you're just as big of a hypocrite as Sir Elton John here. The right to follow a religion, and the right to be homosexual, are both choices anyone is free to make.

Please don't open the homosexuality is a choice/genetic debate. Second religion is practically 'genetic' in that 99% of people follow the religion of their parent. It's indoctrination.

We outlawed the Nazi party after WW2. It was people's choice to join it, but we decided it was for the better good that they didn't have that choice to make.

Personally, I wouldn't outlaw all religion. Just western ones, you know, the ones that all believe in the same god but walk around killing each other since we choose a different name for them or have a different list of 'approved' propehts. Oh, agast, 5000 years ago my great great great (etc) grandmother was not Abrahams wife but his slave (or vice versa).....

No matter what you are arguing or how much support you have, once you invoke "Nazis" or the like into a debate you instantly are labeled a 'tard and lose.

Godwin's Law :thumbsup:

 

[bsobel]

feel free to choose the "90+%" of wars :roll:

Wow, you really don't know world history at all apparently. Religion (thru the ages) has been the primary driving force for war. I suggest you finish your 9th grade world history class when you get around ot it:

Some famous ones you may have hear of:
The French Wars of Religion 1562-1598 (7 of em)
Eurpoean Religious Wars (generally the time between 1560 and 1715)
American Civil War (if you are unclear about the religious issues in our revolutionary war, well, go back to school you failed history).
The Crusades
The Reconquista
Armenian genocide

The first and second congo wars (3.8 million died) topping most of the conflicts you mentioned sans WWII. Of course 10million dead in WWII can be attributed to religious presecution of Jews, Catholics, and Gypsies.

Current conflicts and wars:
(It is important to realize that most of the world's current "hot spots" have a complex interaction of economic, racial, ethnic, religious, and other factors. This list is of conflicts which have as their base at least some degree of religious intolerance):

Darfur
Afghanistan
Bosnia
Cote d'lvoire
Cypruss
East Timor
India
Ambon (Indonesia)
Halmahera (Indonesia)
Iraq
Haskmir
Kosovo
Kurdistan
Macedonia
Israel / Arab states
Nigeria
Northern Ireland
Pakistan
Philippines
Russia / Chechnya
South Afrika
Sri Lanka
Sudan
Thailand
TIbet
Uganda

If your going to ask, for example, how Iraq is a religous war bear in mind the conflict (regardless of how it started) is now primarily between western armed forces, Kurds, Shite Muslims, Sunni Muslims. By mid 2006 the relgioius groups were in a civil war amongst themselves.

If you know anything about any of these conflicts, you should be able to discuss the religous angle without rolling your eyes (and looking just stupid in that stunning rebuttal).

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124

Originally posted by: bsobel

Sorry to tell you buddy, you're just as big of a hypocrite as Sir Elton John here. The right to follow a religion, and the right to be homosexual, are both choices anyone is free to make.

Please don't open the homosexuality is a choice/genetic debate. Second religion is practically 'genetic' in that 99% of people follow the religion of their parent. It's indoctrination.

We outlawed the Nazi party after WW2. It was people's choice to join it, but we decided it was for the better good that they didn't have that choice to make.

Personally, I wouldn't outlaw all religion. Just western ones, you know, the ones that all believe in the same god but walk around killing each other since we choose a different name for them or have a different list of 'approved' propehts. Oh, agast, 5000 years ago my great great great (etc) grandmother was not Abrahams wife but his slave (or vice versa).....

If homosexuality isn't a choice, what the fvck is it? Nobody is standing over your back telling you you NEED to be gay, and likewise, NOBODY is forcing you to follow a religion. I hope you didn't learn making comparisons from aidanjm, because the Nazi party very clearly outlined it's racist attitude towards Jews. Last time I checked, being heterosexual in no way makes you a homophobe, AND VICE VERSA FOR HOMOSEXUALS. Lately, I'm seeing more heterophobes and less homophobes.

EDIT: I'm finished with this thread, trying to talk with either of you is like talking to a 5 year old.

if you seriously think homosexuality is a possible choice you are either bi or closet gay. you cannot choose your inate desire like that. its like choosing not to be hungry. you can lie t yourself but that doesn't make it so. and so far, i've yet to see descrimination of hetros like what gays face at all. the fact that you would even make such an absurd claim shows you out of touch with reason and reality you really are. mr sheik? you from the middle east where they have such poisonous ideas in the water? or did you just get brainwashed by your family with such hate. hatred of gays has no reasonable backing, just like hatred of other races had no legitimacy in the past. yet people would stick to their bigoted guns no matter how factually dubious and invalid their arguements were.

 

[bsobel]

If homosexuality isn't a choice, what the fvck is it?

Many scientists would say it's a genetic disposition to the chemical process that drives attraction and love. I don't know of any gay friend who decided at 14, yea, girls are cool but I bet boys are cooler. They have all been attracted primarily to the same sex from an early age. If you think its a 'choice', go read some current research (and the Christian Science Monitor does not count)

because the Nazi party very clearly outlined it's racist attitude towards Jews.

And the muslim religion is different how?

Last time I checked, being heterosexual in no way makes you a homophobe, AND VICE VERSA FOR HOMOSEXUALS.

I never stated that. I'm hetero and in no way a homophobe. I never made that distinction or claim.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
If homosexuality isn't a choice, what the fvck is it?

to answer that question, you need to make a distinction between one's sexual orientation, and one's sexual behaviors.

sexual orientation = the gender we are attracted to. this isn't a choice. it's a personality trait that is not chosen consciously and seems to be established at a very early age (before the age of 5 years old).

sexual behaviors = the kinds of sex we have, who we have it with, etc.

in healthy individuals, you would expect to see a congruency between sexual orientation and sexual behavior. Eg., you would hope that men who are attracted to other men are actually having gay sex. Because it would be pretty sad if they were forcing themselves to have heterosexual sex - live a heterosexual lifestyle - on account of moronic xian dogma.

 

[bsobel]

No matter what you are arguing or how much support you have, once you invoke "Nazis" or the like into a debate you instantly are labeled a 'tard and lose.

I belive my comment, in the context given (as an example of a belief system that was banned by others, thereby not making it a choice) is a valid exception to Godwin's law.

As an example, if I said YOU were a Nazi for being religious, that is the kind of statement Godwin's law was intended to curtail

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
If he thinks he can freely say religion should be banned entirely, how is that any different from homophobes who want to eliminate homosexuality? Fvcking hypocrite...

Not really:

Religion--Point of view, Philosophy
Homosexual---Human Being

Not that I agree with banning Religion, but I agree that it holds back progress in many cases.

Uh, no; the proper comparison is as follows:

Religion: Point of view, philosophy
Homosexuality: Point of view, sexual orientation

You have to compare apples to apples, not to oranges. If you wanted to say Homosexual, you'd have to use.....Religious Person.

It's not a "point of view"