Elton John says religion promotes homophobia

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Originally posted by: bsobel

feel free to choose the "90+%" of wars :roll:

Wow, you really don't know world history at all apparently. Religion (thru the ages) has been the primary driving force for war. I suggest you finish your 9th grade world history class when you get around ot it:

Some famous ones you may have hear of:
The French Wars of Religion 1562-1598 (7 of em)
Eurpoean Religious Wars (generally the time between 1560 and 1715)
American Civil War (if you are unclear about the religious issues in our revolutionary war, well, go back to school you failed history).

See that bolded part?

It means you just failed at History.

The cause of the Civil War was State's Rights. Not slavery or freedom of religion.

I am not even American and I know that.

You should really have not quit school at Grade 5.

yeap. but over time it has been changed to be about slavery.

 

[chambersc]

Originally posted by: bsobel

No matter what you are arguing or how much support you have, once you invoke "Nazis" or the like into a debate you instantly are labeled a 'tard and lose.

I belive my comment, in the context given (as an example of a belief system that was banned by others, thereby not making it a choice) is a valid exception to Godwin's law.

As an example, if I said YOU were a Nazi for being religious, that is the kind of statement Godwin's law was intended to curtail

It isn't. Since the "appeal to nazi" argument is the most polarizing and caustic argument there is, short of fisticuffs, one is automatically discredited and a loser for having mention it. There is no valid reason to employ this irrational device into a seemingly rational argument. When one attempts to invoke the "Nazi" reference, they are grasping at straws anyway and this just appears to be the most absurd thing they can think of to "win" the debate.

Godwin's law still applies and you're still a 'tard.

 

[mrSHEiK124]

Originally posted by: biggestmuff

Originally posted by: Sureshot324

LONDON ? Organized religion fuels anti-gay discrimination and other forms of bias, pop star Elton John said in an interview published Saturday.

?I think religion has always tried to turn hatred towards gay people,? John said in the Observer newspaper's Music Monthly Magazine. ?Religion promotes the hatred and spite against gays.?

?But there are so many people I know who are gay and love their religion,? he said. ?From my point of view, I would ban religion completely. Organized religion doesn't seem to work. It turns people into really hateful lemmings and it's not really compassionate.?

Religious leaders have also failed to do anything about tensions and conflicts around the world, he said.

?Why aren't they having a conclave? Why aren't they coming together?? he asked.

John said those in his own field have been similarly lax.

?It's like the peace movement in the '60s. Musicians got through to people by getting out there and doing peace concerts, but we don't seem to do them any more,? he said. ?If John Lennon were alive today, he'd be leading it with a vengeance.?

Wow. That's a pretty huge generalization, but I can't say I disagree entirely. Many religious people are resistant to social change because they feel like they would be betraying their religion.

How...tolerant of him. :roll:

Great to see some sense in this thread buried beneath all of aidanjm, bsobel, and sandorski's BS.

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124

Originally posted by: bsobel

Sorry to tell you buddy, you're just as big of a hypocrite as Sir Elton John here. The right to follow a religion, and the right to be homosexual, are both choices anyone is free to make.

Please don't open the homosexuality is a choice/genetic debate. Second religion is practically 'genetic' in that 99% of people follow the religion of their parent. It's indoctrination.

We outlawed the Nazi party after WW2. It was people's choice to join it, but we decided it was for the better good that they didn't have that choice to make.

Personally, I wouldn't outlaw all religion. Just western ones, you know, the ones that all believe in the same god but walk around killing each other since we choose a different name for them or have a different list of 'approved' propehts. Oh, agast, 5000 years ago my great great great (etc) grandmother was not Abrahams wife but his slave (or vice versa).....

If homosexuality isn't a choice, what the fvck is it? Nobody is standing over your back telling you you NEED to be gay, and likewise, NOBODY is forcing you to follow a religion. I hope you didn't learn making comparisons from aidanjm, because the Nazi party very clearly outlined it's racist attitude towards Jews. Last time I checked, being heterosexual in no way makes you a homophobe, AND VICE VERSA FOR HOMOSEXUALS. Lately, I'm seeing more heterophobes and less homophobes.

EDIT: I'm finished with this thread, trying to talk with either of you is like talking to a 5 year old.

So, I guess you could go either way then? You made a conscious choice to be straight?

Exactly. Or if someone wants to interpret it the other way around, I made the conscious choice not to be gay.

* How the hell did a thread so, P/N, not get caught by the mods and thrown in there?

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Originally posted by: bsobel

feel free to choose the "90+%" of wars :roll:

Wow, you really don't know world history at all apparently. Religion (thru the ages) has been the primary driving force for war. I suggest you finish your 9th grade world history class when you get around ot it:

Some famous ones you may have hear of:
The French Wars of Religion 1562-1598 (7 of em)
Eurpoean Religious Wars (generally the time between 1560 and 1715)
American Civil War (if you are unclear about the religious issues in our revolutionary war, well, go back to school you failed history).

See that bolded part?

It means you just failed at History.

The cause of the Civil War was State's Rights. Not slavery or freedom of religion.

I am not even American and I know that.

You should really have not quit school at Grade 5.

yeap. but over time it has been changed to be about slavery.

The reasons for the civil war have been twisted so much over time you really need to read a few books on the issue to grasp it.

political power, economics, slavery, and a host of other unresolved isssues

Whenever people say slavery had nothing to do at all with the civil war I ask them if slavery was such a non-issue why did it nearly tear the forming country apart at the constitutional convention (when there were far fewer slaves)?

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Originally posted by: bsobel

feel free to choose the "90+%" of wars :roll:

Wow, you really don't know world history at all apparently. Religion (thru the ages) has been the primary driving force for war. I suggest you finish your 9th grade world history class when you get around ot it:

Some famous ones you may have hear of:
The French Wars of Religion 1562-1598 (7 of em)
Eurpoean Religious Wars (generally the time between 1560 and 1715)
American Civil War (if you are unclear about the religious issues in our revolutionary war, well, go back to school you failed history).

See that bolded part?

It means you just failed at History.

The cause of the Civil War was State's Rights. Not slavery or freedom of religion.

I am not even American and I know that.

You should really have not quit school at Grade 5.

You missed my comment later:

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
please teach me about why the civil war was caused by religion
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fingers are faster than brain, that should have read American Revolutionary War (per the comment on it). My bad.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: chambersc

Originally posted by: bsobel

No matter what you are arguing or how much support you have, once you invoke "Nazis" or the like into a debate you instantly are labeled a 'tard and lose.

I belive my comment, in the context given (as an example of a belief system that was banned by others, thereby not making it a choice) is a valid exception to Godwin's law.

As an example, if I said YOU were a Nazi for being religious, that is the kind of statement Godwin's law was intended to curtail

It isn't. Since the "appeal to nazi" argument is the most polarizing and caustic argument there is, short of fisticuffs, one is automatically discredited and a loser for having mention it. There is no valid reason to employ this irrational device into a seemingly rational argument. When one attempts to invoke the "Nazi" reference, they are grasping at straws anyway and this just appears to be the most absurd thing they can think of to "win" the debate.

Godwin's law still applies and you're still a 'tard.

Re-read my comment. It had nothign to do with Nazism other than as a current example of a banded belief system.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Originally posted by: bsobel

feel free to choose the "90+%" of wars :roll:

Wow, you really don't know world history at all apparently. Religion (thru the ages) has been the primary driving force for war. I suggest you finish your 9th grade world history class when you get around ot it:

Some famous ones you may have hear of:
The French Wars of Religion 1562-1598 (7 of em)
Eurpoean Religious Wars (generally the time between 1560 and 1715)
American Civil War (if you are unclear about the religious issues in our revolutionary war, well, go back to school you failed history).

See that bolded part?

It means you just failed at History.

The cause of the Civil War was State's Rights. Not slavery or freedom of religion.

I am not even American and I know that.

You should really have not quit school at Grade 5.

yeap. but over time it has been changed to be about slavery.

The reasons for the civil war have been twisted so much over time you really need to read a few books on the issue to grasp it.

political power, economics, slavery, and a host of other unresolved isssues

Whenever people say slavery had nothing to do at all with the civil war I ask them if slavery was such a non-issue why did it nearly tear the forming country apart at the constitutional convention (when there were far fewer slaves)?

It had a very tiny part in the war. It was more about state rights, and economics. Slavery did not have the impact many try to say it did.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: CitizenDoug
The cause of 90% + of all wars: You guessed it.

And thou shalt (not) kill

really? vietnam, iraq, iraq ii, wwi, wwii, civil war, korean war, falkland islands, mexican war, revolutionary war, war of 1812, 100 years war, ...

Baaa-ram-yoooo... even Revisionist historians will point out that it was political and economic motivations that led to wars, even if "religion" was used as a cover.

It's funny how Christians are given the bad rap for hypocrisy because of the vocal "Evangelical" minority, when their opponents are guilty of (possibly) even worse hypocrisy. Banning religion for the sake of gay people is hypocrisy. Banning homosexuality for the sake of religion is hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is the true evil here folks - many people (ab)use religion to promote political agendas.

 

[Whisper]

Well, economics played a larger role, but because slavery was such a large part of the southern economic system, it too was a key component.

 

[Conky]

I would say to Elton that homosexuality promotes hatred of religion and decency.

 

[Dumac]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Originally posted by: bsobel

feel free to choose the "90+%" of wars :roll:

Wow, you really don't know world history at all apparently. Religion (thru the ages) has been the primary driving force for war. I suggest you finish your 9th grade world history class when you get around ot it:

Some famous ones you may have hear of:
The French Wars of Religion 1562-1598 (7 of em)
Eurpoean Religious Wars (generally the time between 1560 and 1715)
American Civil War (if you are unclear about the religious issues in our revolutionary war, well, go back to school you failed history).

See that bolded part?

It means you just failed at History.

The cause of the Civil War was State's Rights. Not slavery or freedom of religion.

I am not even American and I know that.

You should really have not quit school at Grade 5.

yeap. but over time it has been changed to be about slavery.

The reasons for the civil war have been twisted so much over time you really need to read a few books on the issue to grasp it.

political power, economics, slavery, and a host of other unresolved isssues

Whenever people say slavery had nothing to do at all with the civil war I ask them if slavery was such a non-issue why did it nearly tear the forming country apart at the constitutional convention (when there were far fewer slaves)?

It had a very tiny part in the war. It was more about state rights, and economics. Slavery did not have the impact many try to say it did.

Slavery was a big part of the south's economy, so slavery did weight more than just a tiny bit.

 

[bsobel]

Slavery was a big part of the south's economy, so slavery did weight more than just a tiny bit.

Guys the whole slavery/civil war sub thread was based on a TYPO I made. Please forgive me for it and return to the thread!

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
If he thinks he can freely say religion should be banned entirely, how is that any different from homophobes who want to eliminate homosexuality? Fvcking hypocrite...

banning organized religion is like banning the nuclear bomb - it benefits everyone.

whereas criminalizing homosexuality doesn't benefit anyone.

Sorry to tell you buddy, you're just as big of a hypocrite as Sir Elton John here. The right to follow a religion, and the right to be homosexual, are both choices anyone is free to make. The difference between you and I is that I have absolutely no problem with you being gay, although I might not agree with it, I'm not going to try and stop you. You on the other hand, seem to have a big problem with religion. Well, you can bite me for all I care, because you're a hypocrite and have the reasoning of a homophobic 5 year old.
</rant>

:thumbsup:

also, those of you who have this distorted view of Christianity - get educated. Jesus never taught to hate anyone. I would argue Jesus would urge for us to love (not ITB) homos. People who "hate" homos or discriminate against them do it because they are human, not because they are "Christians."

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: Dumac

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Iron Woode

Originally posted by: bsobel

feel free to choose the "90+%" of wars :roll:

Wow, you really don't know world history at all apparently. Religion (thru the ages) has been the primary driving force for war. I suggest you finish your 9th grade world history class when you get around ot it:

Some famous ones you may have hear of:
The French Wars of Religion 1562-1598 (7 of em)
Eurpoean Religious Wars (generally the time between 1560 and 1715)
American Civil War (if you are unclear about the religious issues in our revolutionary war, well, go back to school you failed history).

See that bolded part?

It means you just failed at History.

The cause of the Civil War was State's Rights. Not slavery or freedom of religion.

I am not even American and I know that.

You should really have not quit school at Grade 5.

yeap. but over time it has been changed to be about slavery.

The reasons for the civil war have been twisted so much over time you really need to read a few books on the issue to grasp it.

political power, economics, slavery, and a host of other unresolved isssues

Whenever people say slavery had nothing to do at all with the civil war I ask them if slavery was such a non-issue why did it nearly tear the forming country apart at the constitutional convention (when there were far fewer slaves)?

It had a very tiny part in the war. It was more about state rights, and economics. Slavery did not have the impact many try to say it did.

Slavery was a big part of the south's economy, so slavery did weight more than just a tiny bit.

Slavery was the excuse and the rally cry for the Union. The reality was that State's Rights were the real issue at stake. That is why 11 states seceded from the Union. They wanted the right to run each state without the Federal government's interference. They were afraid of losing their economic base to the northern state's modernized economy.

To quote Thomas Jefferson:

Resolved, that the several States composing the United States of America, are not united on the principle of unlimited submission to their general government; but that by compact under the style and title of a Constitution for the United States and of amendments thereto, they constituted a general government for special purposes, delegated to that government certain definite powers, reserving each State to itself, the residuary mass of right to their own self-government; and that whensoever the general government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force: That to this compact each State acceded as a State, and is an integral party, its co-States forming, as to itself, the other party....each party has an equal right to judge for itself, as well of infractions as of the mode and measure of redress."

 

[Iron Woode]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Slavery was a big part of the south's economy, so slavery did weight more than just a tiny bit.

Guys the whole slavery/civil war sub thread was based on a TYPO I made. Please forgive me for it and return to the thread!

But this topic is far more interesting than what Elton John has to say.

 

[IGBT]

..so many confuse disagreement with fear(phobia). Clearly the fear(phobia) is felt by those challenged by disagreement.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Fritzo
No, the thought of Elton John naked with another dude promotes homophobia. If that picture doesn't scare you, nothing will.

it's no more nauseating than e.g., the thought of Barbara Bush naked with George Bush Snr

This coming from a guy who looks like a Holocaust survivor.

why do you say I look lik a Holocaust survivor?

 

[huberm]

Originally posted by: IGBT
..so many confuse disagreement with fear(phobia). Clearly the fear(phobia) is felt by those challenged by disagreement.

agreed. I for one feel that homosexuality is unnatural and immoral, and wouldn't want my kids to be around it growing up. I think it is wrong. But do I fear homosexuals? No.

 

[bsobel]

But this topic is far more interesting than what Elton John has to say.

Touche

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: mrSHEiK124
If he thinks he can freely say religion should be banned entirely, how is that any different from homophobes who want to eliminate homosexuality? Fvcking hypocrite...

banning organized religion is like banning the nuclear bomb - it benefits everyone.

whereas criminalizing homosexuality doesn't benefit anyone.

banning homosexuality would allow us to lock up an idiot like you.

---

And banning you would allow us to be rid of one more bigot.

Lighten up, or go elsewhere. If you cannot manage the first option, we can enforce the second one.

AnandTech Moderator

I think you misunderstood my post. I guess I meant to say, "at least banning..."

I don't support any ban of homosexuals, just saying that at least it would get rid of his silly claims. Or to make it more clear, just saying that he's being an idiot.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: huberm

Originally posted by: IGBT
..so many confuse disagreement with fear(phobia). Clearly the fear(phobia) is felt by those challenged by disagreement.

agreed. I for one feel that homosexuality is unnatural and immoral, and wouldn't want my kids to be around it growing up. I think it is wrong. But do I fear homosexuals? No.

It may go against biological prcesses, but why is it morally wrong?

 

[IAteYourMother]

ok, I'm admitting my ignorance here again. the revolutionary war was sparked by religious reasons?

 

[Number1]

Originally posted by: huberm

Originally posted by: IGBT
..so many confuse disagreement with fear(phobia). Clearly the fear(phobia) is felt by those challenged by disagreement.

agreed. I for one feel that homosexuality is unnatural and immoral, and wouldn't want my kids to be around it growing up. I think it is wrong. But do I fear homosexuals? No.

Why?

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
ok, I'm admitting my ignorance here again. the revolutionary war was sparked by religious reasons?

Under revisionist history, more and more people are trying to make it a sort of religious movement.

But religion may have had an influence in that the First Great Awakening was something that many colonials experienced in their lives, so they were more prepared to make serious decisions such as this. Another factor is that Paine's "Common Sense" was highly evangelical, which is interesting considering that Paine was anything but a supporter of religion.

 

[piasabird]

Gays just walk around looking for Homophobia. If you get your News form Rock Stars, what do you expect? What do you expect a Gay Rock star to talk about when he is addressing a group of gay people?