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Elijah McClain yet another black man killed by police

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TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
23,611
3,026
136
Yikes, ketamine is something that we use very sparingly in the ED, with a MD right there pushing it, a code cart, and respiratory standing by.

Giving that in the field sounds like a recipe for death...like, you know...here.
Seems like ketamine may be EMSs version of the MRAP. Too much firepower in the "civilian" world.

That's fairly aggressive chemical restraint for the field. Yikes.

Admittedly, though, I'm ignorant to any literature on prehospital ketamine use aside from what was posted here.

I've never pushed ketamine, nor ordered it, but I do know that we have a formalized protocol for its use and it's a moderately highly monitored situation.
 
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Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
7,361
1,106
126
From what I read about this incident it sounds like he was in the high functioning autism spectrum. If he was white this never would have escalated. They would have brought him home to his parents. My wife had to go to the ER/ED last year for a non-mental medical problem and they gave her ketamine. It was like giving her LSD. She was having major scary hallucinations. It took her over a month to get over it.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
18,480
5,627
136
From what I read about this incident it sounds like he was in the high functioning autism spectrum. If he was white this never would have escalated. They would have brought him home to his parents. My wife had to go to the ER/ED last year for a non-mental medical problem and they gave her ketamine. It was like giving her LSD. She was having major scary hallucinations. It took her over a month to get over it.
Yea, there's this stuff called Special K. That's what it is. People go out of there way to go to the K hole.
Why would you give this to someone who's already obviously extremely anxious. Thought it was restricted to use for animals only but i'm probably thinking of PCP.
 

SmCaudata

Senior member
Oct 8, 2006
839
1,177
136
Yea, there's this stuff called Special K. That's what it is. People go out of there way to go to the K hole.
Why would you give this to someone who's already obviously extremely anxious. Thought it was restricted to use for animals only but i'm probably thinking of PCP.
It saw a resurgence about a dozen or so years ago. In mental health it was being studied for acute suicidal thinking. It later has been approved for treatment resistant depression. During the studies for suicality, they used an infusion and say high rates of hallucinations. In the other uses, the amount used is less and there is rarely mention of the psychosis side effects.

That said using tranquilizers on anyone is just another example of police needing to instantly control the situation. Many of the peiple that get these meds are at one of the worst points in their lives. Police and medics respond by holding them down, giving them a shot, then transferring them to a hospital im restraints.

All first responders need better education on trauma and deescalation

That said, if the police didn't racially profile this young man in the first place, none of this would have happened.

Police need to stop being field investigators looking for problems. There should be legit evidence of a crime before police even think about confronting someone.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
23,611
3,026
136
It saw a resurgence about a dozen or so years ago. In mental health it was being studied for acute suicidal thinking. It later has been approved for treatment resistant depression. During the studies for suicality, they used an infusion and say high rates of hallucinations. In the other uses, the amount used is less and there is rarely mention of the psychosis side effects.

That said using tranquilizers on anyone is just another example of police needing to instantly control the situation. Many of the peiple that get these meds are at one of the worst points in their lives. Police and medics respond by holding them down, giving them a shot, then transferring them to a hospital im restraints.

All first responders need better education on trauma and deescalation

That said, if the police didn't racially profile this young man in the first place, none of this would have happened.

Police need to stop being field investigators looking for problems. There should be legit evidence of a crime before police even think about confronting someone.
Proactive policing policies are one of the worst things to have ever been invented.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
18,480
5,627
136
Just can't watch that video. Guys pleading to be left alone and it all goes downhill from there. I don't know how people can be so unfeeling and cold. Nothing can be worse than realizing you have no protection from your own government.

How can people be so heartless?
How can people be so cruel?
Easy to be hard
Easy to be cold
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
28,396
14,299
136
Just can't watch that video. Guys pleading to be left alone and it all goes downhill from there. I don't know how people can be so unfeeling and cold. Nothing can be worse than realizing you have no protection from your own government.

How can people be so heartless?
How can people be so cruel?
Easy to be hard
Easy to be cold
It's easy when you don't consider black people human beings.

And we still have racist morons still questioning why the need for groups like BLM
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
12,666
9,488
136
It's horrific. That kid should be alive 100%. Aurora has some bad hombres. They were doing a BLM peaceful protest in a town square at night last year, I think there were violins there and it was kumbayah and the cops just went in on them. Policing in this country is so broken.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,754
4,159
126
As is I didn't know that shit already. More abuse of black people by the police.
The case of Elijah McClain bothers me a lot. I think he was a gentle soul who wouldn't hurt a fly. I was personally outraged at what happened there. Cops to me represent use of force. Frankly, police do not make me feel more safe as a rule, they strike me as a force of intimidation if not outright subjugation. Elijah McClain suffered his worst nightmare. It was the opposite of justice.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
28,396
14,299
136
The case of Elijah McClain bothers me a lot. I think he was a gentle soul who wouldn't hurt a fly. I was personally outraged at what happened there. Cops to me represent use of force. Frankly, police do not make me feel more safe as a rule, they strike me as a force of intimidation if not outright subjugation. Elijah McClain suffered his worst nightmare. It was the opposite of justice.
Don't worry, I'm sure Summer's Eve douchebag will be here soon to make excuses for the cops that murdered Elijah
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,754
4,159
126
Don't worry, I'm sure Summer's Eve douchebag will be here soon to make excuses for the cops that murdered Elijah
I have no idea who you're talking about. Maybe it's one of the several posters who I have on ignore because I hate on prevaricators. Maybe that's a made up name for sarcasm effect. I suppose so.

For the "record" I think the murder of Elijah McClain is inexcusable in the extreme and no asshat here is going to change my mind.
 
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aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
19,244
1,624
126
The cops didn't kill him, the paramedics did.
Yes the cops were systemically raciest, and during COVID, you need to wear a mask, so wearing a mask under suspicion is sort of stupid as a defense.
Also where is the body cam of him trying to go after the gun.
There should of been multiple body cam's aimed at the person, which ultimately would be the final jury call if he did reach out of the gun.

However again, its still moot, the cops did not kill him, the paramedics did. They probably thought it was better to pacify with a narcotic vs have him go though a emotional breakdown.

Also im fairly sure there are crash carts in the paramedic van.
So either someone pushed way too much beyond normal dosages, or they got the number wrong.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
28,396
14,299
136
The cops didn't kill him, the paramedics did.
Yes the cops were systemically raciest, and during COVID, you need to wear a mask, so wearing a mask under suspicion is sort of stupid as a defense.
Also where is the body cam of him trying to go after the gun.
There should of been multiple body cam's aimed at the person, which ultimately would be the final jury call if he did reach out of the gun.

However again, its still moot, the cops did not kill him, the paramedics did. They probably thought it was better to pacify with a narcotic vs have him go though a emotional breakdown.

Also im fairly sure there are crash carts in the paramedic van.
So either someone pushed way too much beyond normal dosages, or they got the number wrong.
Cops instigated the stop and subsequent escalation that caused paramedics to be called. They are mostly to blame.
 

aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
19,244
1,624
126
Cops instigated the stop and subsequent escalation that caused paramedics to be called. They are mostly to blame.
I agree they are to blame, but they did not present the suspect to the paramedics in code blue, like they did to Floyd.
The Cops at best can be charged with aggravated assult, abuse of authority, but ultimately the manslaughter charge will need to be taken up with the paramedics and fire department.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
106,469
21,560
146
I agree they are to blame, but they did not present the suspect to the paramedics in code blue, like they did to Floyd.
The Cops at best can be charged with aggravated assult, abuse of authority, but ultimately the manslaughter charge will need to be taken up with the paramedics and fire department.
No, this is 100% the police and this is very much a strategy that they are intentionally deploying, and have been doing it for a long time: They are directly requesting paramedics to dope up the suspects, against any rational medical concern or necessity. ...and they are cops. Basically every one of them is an uneducated bully that is going to strongarm any paramedic to do their bidding in a highly stressed situation. And this is real.

And the idea is this: "We need to kill this suspect, and we need to do it in a way that establishes plausible deniability for all of us."

A lot of it is based on an absurd deployment of an extremely rare condition called "excitement delirium" that requires an actual professional to diagnose on the spot (e.g.: never anyone as monumentally dumb as a fucking policeman), and used to justify intentional murder. Yes, this is really happening.

Yes, this has been happening for a long time, and it's a very, very, very real thing. This is tragic, but it's best to read and educate ourselves about what these fucking terrorists are doing to our citizens:







Here's real science

This is the police. It is only ever the police. 100%. Don't ever for a second allow yourself to confuse what these fucking jihadist bastards are doing to innocent people on the streets.

This is defunding the police is about. It's about removing terrorists from the streets and restoring order with real law officers. Not fucking terrorists.
 
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KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
23,237
25,845
136

an update on this story

A grand jury has returned a 32-count indictment against two Aurora police officers, Nathan Woodyard and Randy Roedema, former police officer Jason Rosenblatt and Aurora Fire and Rescue paramedics Jeremy Cooper and Lt. Peter Cichuniec have been charged with one count each of manslaughter and one count each of criminally negligent homicide. Two of the officers face additional assault and crime of violence counts, and the two paramedics also face assault counts, in addition to counts of recklessly causing bodily injury with a deadly weapon — the sedative ketamine.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
28,396
14,299
136

an update on this story

A grand jury has returned a 32-count indictment against two Aurora police officers, Nathan Woodyard and Randy Roedema, former police officer Jason Rosenblatt and Aurora Fire and Rescue paramedics Jeremy Cooper and Lt. Peter Cichuniec have been charged with one count each of manslaughter and one count each of criminally negligent homicide. Two of the officers face additional assault and crime of violence counts, and the two paramedics also face assault counts, in addition to counts of recklessly causing bodily injury with a deadly weapon — the sedative ketamine.
Great news
 
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Juiblex

Senior member
Sep 26, 2016
433
182
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Yeah, I'm tired of lying cops who use the "he was grabbing for my gun" bullshit to justify their behavior. I'm glad they were charged.
 

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