Eli Manning is NOT an elite quarterback and anyone who says otherwise is...

[seepy83]

Guys....Agree to disagree. No one is going to convince anyone that he is or is not an elite QB. This argument got dumb a long time ago. You're bringing up the same stats and opinions over and over again and expecting a different result...this is insanity.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

It was a team effort

 

[Lifted]

So he's good against the Patriots and had the lucky breaks at the end of those games. To bad the other 30 teams in the NFL aren't all the Patriots.

They don't need all teams to be more like the Pats, just the Redskins.

 

[Hacp]

No. The Giants weren't good enough to win many games decisively. They had MANY opportunities for 4th quarter comebacks. The best QB's in the league often had their teams many touchdowns ahead when the 4th quarter came, thus less comebacks.

Who are those best QBs? Aaron Rodgers? Tom Brady? They certainly were many touchdowns ahead against manning were they? To face the 29th ranked defense and one of the worst ranked running games yet still lose to a mediocre QB like Eli, they sure are elite.

 

[DrunkenSano]

Cuda is what you would call a fantasy fan. He bases everything off of stats to make judgements, which is pretty retarded. Every real football fan knows that Eli is an elite quarterback, especially with last night's win over the Patriots.

How elite a quarterback is isn't about fantasy stats, Cuda.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

People seem to be confusing elite with "statistically elite" in this thread.

statistically speaking he lead his team to the super and twice and won both. Whats the confusion?

 

[SP33Demon]

No. The Giants weren't good enough to win many games decisively. They had MANY opportunities for 4th quarter comebacks. The best QB's in the league often had their teams many touchdowns ahead when the 4th quarter came, thus less comebacks.

And those teams had better defenses than the Giants. So what? Eli has shown year after year that he has the Elway gene, so give it a rest. He is now in the "elite" conversation.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

No. The Giants weren't good enough to win many games decisively. They had MANY opportunities for 4th quarter comebacks. The best QB's in the league often had their teams many touchdowns ahead when the 4th quarter came, thus less comebacks.

its a two sided coin. You can't say well if the patriots didn't make these mistakes blah blah blah. If the giants didn't make mistakes the score gaps would have been much wider as well. Both teams make mistakes both teams make great plays. Its part of the game. fyi there is no win decisively clause in football.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

And those teams had better defenses than the Giants. So what? Eli has shown year after year that he has the Elway gene, so give it a rest. He is now in the "elite" conversation.

No he's not. I am a opposing fan and he is shit. If he is not playing for the team I support he is shit.

*Sarcasm

 

[BrokenVisage]

statistically speaking he lead his team to the super and twice and won both. Whats the confusion?

No, I'm saying that most of the people who think he's NOT elite may be focusing too much on his production compared to other generally accept elite quarterbacks. IMO, he's more elite than Brees and Rodgers for this reason. Sure both are deadly accurate and put up huge numbers, but Rodgers has now lost his first game in 2 of his 3 post-seasons, and if you count San Diego (2002-now) Brees lost his first game in 3 of 5, and other one being a lose in the semis to the freakin' Bears. Production is not mutually exclusive of elite, but it's not the only gauge, and I'm a HUGE fan of numbers.

 

[AstroManLuca]

I would like to say that Rodgers great season was do to playing the bottom of the league Defenses. GB was the most over rated team this year. Go back and look at all the low rank Defenses Rodgers played.

This is at least partially because the Packers had a great offense and won all but one of their regular season games. Your defensive stats are going to get slightly worse overall when one (or two!) of your games are vs. one of the best offenses in the league.

Eli ya he is good but more lucky then good. This was one of the worst played Superbowl I ever seen. Dropped passes and poor throws by both quarterbacks. Even though Eli won that game he did not look Eli to me out there.

How can you say that? Each QB had nearly 300 yards passing. Brady completed 66% of his passes while Eli completed 75%. The Giants had over 100 yards rushing and their defense did a good job of stopping the Patriots' running game. I can't find the stat for tackles for loss yet but there were several of them by the Giants and that really hurt the Patriots. It was a bit dull at points, with a lot of stalled drives (there were 7 punts total), but you still had some great offensive and defensive highlights throughout.

 

[DrunkenSano]

The point of a season from beginning to the end of one is to win the superbowl, not to build up stats, not to throw for over 5000 yards, not who can throw more than a billion TD passes. It's to win the superbowl, stats are secondary. Now if a QB leads his team to one superbowl win, some people may shrug it off as a fluke. A second superbowl win? He's pretty elite. Only people who drink haterade or hates thats team would not think so.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

This is at least partially because the Packers had a great offense and won all but one of their regular season games. Your defensive stats are going to get slightly worse overall when one (or two!) of your games are vs. one of the best offenses in the league.



How can you say that? Each QB had nearly 300 yards passing. Brady completed 66% of his passes while Eli completed 75%. The Giants had over 100 yards rushing and their defense did a good job of stopping the Patriots' running game. I can't find the stat for tackles for loss yet but there were several of them by the Giants and that really hurt the Patriots. It was a bit dull at points, with a lot of stalled drives (there were 7 punts total), but you still had some great offensive and defensive highlights throughout.

Its the Pats defense that got found out. How long have the Giants been keeping the Pats offense cold on the bench during the game?

 

[Fingolfin269]

Arguing sports is great because there are no rules and even when you think there is a rule it gets changed.

It's funny to me that QBs are often judged historically based on how they do in the "big game". I guess in about 20 years Eli will be favored much better by many than he apparently is today.

 

[AstroManLuca]

statistically speaking he lead his team to the super and twice and won both. Whats the confusion?

That's not what statistically speaking means. Wins aren't a stat, they are a result. Touchdowns, interceptions, passing yards, yards per attempt, and rushing yards are examples of stats. If you want to say that wins are a stat then you'd be arguing that Eli is not elite because the Giants only went 9-7 in the regular season while the Patriots went 13-3. You could say that Super Bowl wins are the only thing that matters but getting to and then winning the Super Bowl is a major team effort AND there's too much luck involved.

All of that said, I still think Eli will be considered an elite QB and a first-ballot hall of famer by the time he retires. It's just that, for now at least, he's still a bit young and inconsistent to make some sort of final judgment. His career could go either way at this point, we just don't know yet. But I don't see his performance dropping off anytime soon. In fact, he might be just getting started. Brady has always been a good QB, but he actually got statistically better after his Super Bowl wins. A similar thing could happen with Eli.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Its the Pats defense that got found out. How long have the Giants been keeping the Pats offense cold on the bench during the game?

That is true, the time of possession split was 23 minutes for the Pats and 37 minutes for the Giants. I wonder how much more lopsided it was early in the game, though, when teams aren't concerned about the clock. The Giants had two drives one after the other to start the game thanks to that safety, and those alone took up a good chunk of the first quarter.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Guys....Agree to disagree. No one is going to convince anyone that he is or is not an elite QB. This argument got dumb a long time ago. You're bringing up the same stats and opinions over and over again and expecting a different result...this is insanity.

Wasting your time; someone on the internet is wrong!

As if anyone gives a flying rat's ass (sadly a few here seem to) whether or not he is elite in the mind of some nobody on the internet. He is elite according to the "experts" now. All last night did, was provide the exclamation mark that cemented it. First ballet HOFer guaranteed.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

Arguing sports is great because there are no rules and even when you think there is a rule it gets changed.

It's funny to me that QBs are often judged historically based on how they do in the "big game". I guess in about 20 years Eli will be favored much better by many than he apparently is today.

True but there are only 3 real sports: bull-fighting, car racing and mountain climbing. All the others are mere games

 

[seepy83]

Hey let's talk about how elite Brady was yesterday. Balls getting batted down on the line of scrimmage...a pass attempt that gets intercepted by a linebacker 50 yards down the field. He really played a game that you would expect from an elite QB.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

Hey let's talk about how elite Brady was yesterday. Balls getting batted down on the line of scrimmage...a pass attempt that gets intercepted by a linebacker 50 yards down the field. He really played a game that you would expect from an elite QB.

We all have our off days

 

[Fingolfin269]

Hey let's talk about how elite Brady was yesterday. Balls getting batted down on the line of scrimmage...a pass attempt that gets intercepted by a linebacker 50 yards down the field. He really played a game that you would expect from an elite QB.

How much control does Brady have over keeping JPP down on the ground when in the middle of his release? You do realize that most of that control is the job of the o-line right? This is why you often see linemen hang their heads for a moment when their guy bats the ball down.

/once again I'm not a Brady fan but for some reason feel the need to defend him... must stop

 

[IceBergSLiM]

How much control does Brady have over keeping JPP down on the ground when in the middle of his release? You do realize that most of that control is the job of the o-line right? This is why you often see linemen hang their heads for a moment when their guy bats the ball down.

/once again I'm not a Brady fan but for some reason feel the need to defend him... must stop

how much control does he have intentional grounding in the end zone? :whiste::whiste:

 

[Fingolfin269]

how much control does he have intentional grounding in the end zone? :whiste::whiste:

As pointed out earlier, there was a high likelihood he would have been sacked regardless. Bad play call.

But even if those two points are somehow all his fault they still had a good chance of winning had the receivers caught the ball.

Why do I feel like we've circled back to the beginning of the conversation?

 

[IceBergSLiM]

As pointed out earlier, there was a high likelihood he would have been sacked regardless. Bad play call.

But even if those two points are somehow all his fault they still had a good chance of winning had the receivers caught the ball.

Why do I feel like we've circled back to the beginning of the conversation?

thats what happens when you play the what-if game.

 

[seepy83]

How much control does Brady have over keeping JPP down on the ground when in the middle of his release? You do realize that most of that control is the job of the o-line right? This is why you often see linemen hang their heads for a moment when their guy bats the ball down.

/once again I'm not a Brady fan but for some reason feel the need to defend him... must stop

Wait a minute...you mean to tell me that the entire team effects the production of the QB? Shit man...back to the drawing board. I thought all that matters is if you have an elite QB or not.