Eli Manning is NOT an elite quarterback and anyone who says otherwise is...

[darkswordsman17]

I would remind you that when you throw for ~5000 yards, your running game is going to have less than stellar stats - what was the Packers running game rated this year? The Patriots? Bradshaw had some injuries this year as well.

I'm amazed at the audacity of the op at this point - I can see having this discussion at least at the start of the playoffs - what else does Eli have to do now?

I'd say, right now - the top QB's in the NFL are Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Peyton (assuming he's able to play) - and I put Eli next on that list.

Well, the Saints were 6th, the Pats 20th, and the Packers 27th. Eh, I'd say the run game helped those teams, at least it does the Pats and definitely the Saints. It probably hurt Green Bay though, as when their passing game wasn't working (for the two games it didn't), they didn't have much else. But, considering how much the Giants used to lean on their running game though, that might make Eli's year even a bit more impressive.

I'd say they have fairly comparable receivers and tight ends, so that's not a major difference between those teams (and if anything, I'd say the Giants might not be as good).

The Giants line is much worse in pass protection (28th, GB was 16th, NE 2nd, and NO 1st).
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Oh, and before you go, yeah, well that's Eli's fault:
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/31/pressure-and-the-2011-quarterbacks/

I was one of the people that scoffed and laughed when Eli said he was elite prior to the season. I really didn't think things had changed much for most of the season until I looked and saw what he had done. Now that its all over, I'd say Eli's season is up there.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Not saying this is the case but.... Brady playing great can be the reason for them winning 3 and him playing just good not the reason for him losing 2. You can't expect the guy to be GREAT every game.

Brady could be 0-5 in Super Bowls though, and I'd still say he's elite. You know why? Because his CAREER says he is. When the guy throws for 40 TD's and less than 10 INT's year after year as well as putting his team in the position to win a lot of playoff games, that's what matters. Any single game, or series of games there is a LOT of luck involved.

Looking at this game, off the top of my head, Welker dropped pass in the 4th quarter. Giants fumbled twice in the game, including once very close to their goal line that the Pats could have recovered. The safety play had a huge effect on the outcome. Point being, nearly everything could have been exactly the same, with Eli and Tom's stats being EXACTLY the same, and the Patriots could have won. The outcome of the game matters. But it isn't an overwhelming reason for judging someone as elite or not. If you base it off of that, you are a prisoner of the moment.

Brady played well last night and though I have not yet checked, I'd venture to say that statistically speaking, that was one of his best SB performances.

His defenses and Adam V deserve as much credit, if not more, for their SB wins.

 

[edro]

Eli pwnd Cuda

 

[Cuda1447]

Eli pwnd Cuda

I don't think so. I expected the Giants to win the game. Besides, the win/loss wasn't going to change my opinion. Let's pretend Gronkowski catches that hail merry at the end of the game and teh Pats win. Is Eli suddenly NOT elite, because he lost? Some people would argue that, but that's absurd. Being Elite is not based soley on winning/losing, its simply one small portion of it.

 

[edro]

Any QB with 2 SB MVPs is Elite in my book.

 

[Fingolfin269]

They put up a stat up last night that I wasn't aware of until before the game. Apparently Eli was #2 in QB rating this season, one slot behind Rodgers.

 

[rh71]

I'm actually a semi-Niner fan (haven't followed in years) and he impressed me both last night and against the Niners. The guy shows ridiculous poise and a strong arm to get it there.

Brady on the other hand was throwing behind receivers in the 2nd half.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

They put up a stat up last night that I wasn't aware of until before the game. Apparently Eli was #2 in QB rating this season, one slot behind Rodgers.

I think that was 4th quarter QB rating.

 

[BrokenVisage]

They put up a stat up last night that I wasn't aware of until before the game. Apparently Eli was #2 in QB rating this season, one slot behind Rodgers.

Saw that stat too, but I think it was only for 4th-quarter passing only.

Indy beat me to it lol.

QB Stats

 

[Jeffg010]

I would like to say that Rodgers great season was do to playing the bottom of the league Defenses. GB was the most over rated team this year. Go back and look at all the low rank Defenses Rodgers played.

Eli ya he is good but more lucky then good. This was one of the worst played Superbowl I ever seen. Dropped passes and poor throws by both quarterbacks. Even though Eli won that game he did not look Eli to me out there.

 

[Squisher]

Yeah, the Giant's receivers didn't drop as many passes and if we could figure out how those passes got to them maybe we could call the person who threw them, elite.

 

[classy]

I don't think so. I expected the Giants to win the game. Besides, the win/loss wasn't going to change my opinion. Let's pretend Gronkowski catches that hail merry at the end of the game and teh Pats win. Is Eli suddenly NOT elite, because he lost? Some people would argue that, but that's absurd. Being Elite is not based soley on winning/losing, its simply one small portion of it.

Winning is the only reason they play the game. There are only a small handful of athletes who never won a title you can call elite. But winning is the most important stat for any and every athlete on this planet. Winning out weighs any mvp trophy or personal records. You'll never find any athlete that would tell you any different.

Eli has soundly proven that when the time calls for greatness, he has answered that challenge. No doubt he is a future HOF. He is the best clutch qb in the game today. He has won the greatest prize twice now, being the best player on the big stage. I don't know what world you live in, but in the end, winning is not only everything, its the only thing.

 

[Miramonti]

If yesterdays game didn't change one's impression of Eli as a qb, one's either related to him or deeply ignant.

 

[Cuda1447]

Winning is the only reason they play the game. There are only a small handful of athletes who never won a title you can call elite. But winning is the most important stat for any and every athlete on this planet. Winning out weighs any mvp trophy or personal records. You'll never find any athlete that would tell you any different.

Eli has soundly proven that when the time calls for greatness, he has answered that challenge. No doubt he is a future HOF. He is the best clutch qb in the game today. He has won the greatest prize twice now, being the best player on the big stage. I don't know what world you live in, but in the end, winning is not only everything, its the only thing.

Winning is extremely important. But when evaluating the skill level of AN INDIVIDUAL, the 53 man roster plus coaches TEAM'S record, is only a portion of that skill evaluation. If Eli Manning was on the Browns or Raiders we'd be having a totally different discussion. Most of you would probably be saying Eli sucks, but that wouldn't be true either. It'd mean he was on a bad team. Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl. That doesn't mean JACK SHIT. It means he was on a great team. John Elway didn't win Super Bowl till he was 38. When he was 37 was he not an elite QB because he had never won a Super Bowl. By your logic, he was not elite. But that's absurd. Is Eli Manning better than Peyton Manning? By your logic yes, but that's absurd as well. Peyton is one of the best QB's EVER. If Ahmad Bradshaws fumble had cost the Giants 7 points and they lost by 3 points does that change Eli's talent level? Absolutely not. He is still the same exact player, just with a 1-1 Super Bowl record instead of 2-0.


I think though, we just have a huge difference of opinion on this topic.

 

[Cuda1447]

If yesterdays game didn't change one's impression of Eli as a qb, one's either related to him or deeply ignant.

Because one game is always the best way to evaluate the overall talent level of a quarterback. If Tim Tebows game against the Steelers doesn't prove he is an elite QB, either ones related to him, or deeply ignant... or maybe realizes you can't judge an 8 year career of a player based on 4-5 good games.

 

[DougK62]

Eli is a great quarterback. If he keeps this up, he may even one day be considered better than Peyton.

 

[mvbighead]

Winning is extremely important. But when evaluating the skill level of AN INDIVIDUAL, the 53 man roster plus coaches TEAM'S record, is only a portion of that skill evaluation. If Eli Manning was on the Browns or Raiders we'd be having a totally different discussion. Most of you would probably be saying Eli sucks, but that wouldn't be true either. It'd mean he was on a bad team. Trent Dilfer won a Superbowl. That doesn't mean JACK SHIT. It means he was on a great team. John Elway didn't win Super Bowl till he was 38. When he was 37 was he not an elite QB because he had never won a Super Bowl. By your logic, he was not elite. But that's absurd. Is Eli Manning better than Peyton Manning? By your logic yes, but that's absurd as well. Peyton is one of the best QB's EVER. If Ahmad Bradshaws fumble had cost the Giants 7 points and they lost by 3 points does that change Eli's talent level? Absolutely not. He is still the same exact player, just with a 1-1 Super Bowl record instead of 2-0.


I think though, we just have a huge difference of opinion on this topic.

Absolutely this. There were a number of times where the Giants tried to give the game to the Pats. Fortunately for the Giants, someone else corrected those mistakes.

Sadly, the media would like you to believe that greatness is determined by who wins. The reality is, Eli's team could've lost that game on a number of occasions, but didn't. In no way, shape, or form does a L for the Giants indicate how good or bad Eli did.

 

[slayer202]

Because one game is always the best way to evaluate the overall talent level of a quarterback. If Tim Tebows game against the Steelers doesn't prove he is an elite QB, either ones related to him, or deeply ignant... or maybe realizes you can't judge an 8 year career of a player based on 4-5 good games.

It's like Eli and the Giants won the lottery to get to play in the Super Bowl

 

[Cuda1447]

It's like Eli and the Giants won the lottery to get to play in the Super Bowl

No, its like Eli and the Giants played well to get the the Super Bowl. Their defense played excellent during the Super Bowl run. But they were also fortunate enough (like most super bowl teams) to have a lot of breaks go their way. Off the top of my head, a few plays that completely change this season. Romo to Austin Miles in the first Giants game where Miles is injured and comes up short catching that wide open pass. San Francisco's punt returner fumbling two punts and giving the Giants 10 free points in a very low scoring game. Ahmad Bradshaw fumbling inside the 10 and being lucky enough that the Giants recovered the ball. Wes Welker dropping a pass he almost always makes, one which would have most likely put away the Giants. Hernandez getting injured in the AFC Championship game and not being a big part of the Pats offense. Cundiff missing a 30 yard chip shot in the AFC Championship, giving the Giants (in my opinion) a much easier match up.

I could go on and on. My point is that football is a game of inches. A team that is 10-6 could have very easily been 6-10. A team that wins the Super Bowl could have very easily not even made the playoffs. All of the above mentioned plays had NOTHING to do with Eli Manning, but could have made a HUGE impact on how deep his team got this season.


Yet we have guys on here parading around, claiming that Wins/Losses are the only way to judge a players talent. When I'm trying to say the end result has very little to do with how talented a player is. A win/loss is the product of about a million different factors. Even at quarterback, you only control a small portion of the outcome of a game.


If we were talking about 1 on 1 ping pong matches, or 100 meter dashes, or shit even Basketball where you are 1 of a 5 man team, we could make a bigger argument for a single player being evaluated soley on win/losses. But on a team with 53 active players. Another 30 or so players on practice squad that have contributed at some point. 20ish coaches that make a HUGE impact on the team etc.... I find it extremely difficult to judge a single players quality based on the product of that entire team.

 

[Insomniator]

He has 2 super bowl MVP's.

 

[Hacp]

Because one game is always the best way to evaluate the overall talent level of a quarterback. If Tim Tebows game against the Steelers doesn't prove he is an elite QB, either ones related to him, or deeply ignant... or maybe realizes you can't judge an 8 year career of a player based on 4-5 good games.

Eli won 3 straight against the patriots. Patriots combined record those two seasons was 31-5 with 2 of those loses going to the giants. All three of those games, Eli came back from behind in the 4th quarter to steal victory from the jaws of defeat.They weren't fluke wins. The three games all followed a familiar path. The Giants were down in the 4th quarter with enough time for only one more drive. Eli took over when it mattered and handed the better team a loss.

 

[Cuda1447]

Eli won 3 straight against the patriots. Patriots combined record those two seasons was 31-5 with 2 of those loses going to the giants. All three of those games, Eli came back from behind in the 4th quarter to steal victory from the jaws of defeat.They weren't fluke wins. The three games all followed a familiar path. The Giants were down in the 4th quarter with enough time for only one more drive. Eli took over when it mattered and handed the better team a loss.

So he's good against the Patriots and had the lucky breaks at the end of those games. To bad the other 30 teams in the NFL aren't all the Patriots.

 

[Hacp]

So he's good against the Patriots and had the lucky breaks at the end of those games. To bad the other 30 teams in the NFL aren't all the Patriots.

Yet he had 6 come from behind victories in the 4th quarter this season? Giants won 12 games, so he got lucky in half his victories and they all happened to be in the 4th quarter when the Giants were behind. Ya right.

 

[Cuda1447]

Yet he had 6 come from behind victories in the 4th quarter this season? Giants won 12 games, so he got lucky in half his victories and they all happened to be in the 4th quarter when the Giants were behind. Ya right.

No. The Giants weren't good enough to win many games decisively. They had MANY opportunities for 4th quarter comebacks. The best QB's in the league often had their teams many touchdowns ahead when the 4th quarter came, thus less comebacks.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

He had a good/great season. Congrats to him and his team. Without all of them playing their part they would have never won it. They all chipped in.