Eli Manning is NOT an elite quarterback and anyone who says otherwise is...

Cuda1447

Lifer
Jul 26, 2002
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... is a prisoner of the moment. Seriously. This is ridiculous. All I hear EVERYONE talking about on ESPN, local radio, fans etc... is how Eli Manning has to be considered an elite quarterback now. This is ridiculous. Eli Manning is this. A good quarterback, probably top 10, who appears to be clutch right now. But overall, from a talent standpoint, he is not a top 5 QB. He's at the bottom of the top 10, imo.


Let me illustrate my point.

First of all, I think we can all agree he has a pretty solid stable of wide receivers. Probably one of the top teams. Cruz has turned out to be a star and Hakeem Nicks is a very talented WR.

He was nominated to the pro bowl in the NFC. At the time of him being voted in he had 26 TD's and 16 INT's. Those aren't ELITE numbers, in my opinion. Granted, he did go on a nice run the last 2 games and into the playoffs. I'll give him that. But to call him elite we have to look at him as a total player. An elite QB to me takes a team that isn't very good and makes them a playoff team, ala Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

Eli over the last 4 years hovers just below a 62% completion percentage, serviceable but NOT elite. He threw for 5000 yards this year. So what. So did 3 other guys, in a time when it had hardly ever been done before. The only thing that proves to me is defenses give up more passing yards to EVERY QB, not just Eli. Oh and he threw a ton of passes. 590 attempts, by far the most in his career.

The previous two years he threw 58 TD's and 39 INT's. They aren't horrible numbers, but the INT's take him out of the elite category. As he has shown over his career, he is a good, serviceable QB that makes a lot of mistakes.


And my last point, the most important. If the 49ers hadn't fumbled two punt returns and basically gave the win to the Giants (who did VERY little offensively) the Giants would be out of the playoffs and nobody would be talking about him being elite. But because the 49ers screwed up and the Giants defense is pretty damn good, people give Eli more credit than he deserves. He had very little to do with that win.


Eli is a good quarterback with great talent around him. If you put Phillip Rivers, Matthew Stafford or a good deal of other quarterbacks on that team, you'd probably be in a pretty similar position. Eli is good. Eli is not elite.
 

slayer202

Lifer
Nov 27, 2005
13,679
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stats do not dictate greatness/eliteness

matt stafford is a more skilled qb but eli has won a superbowl and has led his team to another. he's a leader and is definitely in the elite category
 

Cuda1447

Lifer
Jul 26, 2002
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stats do not dictate greatness/eliteness

matt stafford is a more skilled qb but eli has won a superbowl and has led his team to another. he's a leader and is definitely in the elite category

When I think of elite I think of talent and ability to win. Not ability to be placed in a strong organization with the right pieces around you. Eli won his last superbowl and is in this one largely due to the talent around him. That doesn't mean he is elite. It means he is in a good situation.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
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Absolutely agreed. Eli is far too inconsistent to earn the title "elite". One day he'll lead the Giants to a pair of touchdown drives in the late fourth quarter, the next, he'll throw four picks on throws that shouldn't have been attempted.
 

Insomniator

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2002
6,294
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Take it easy, he was elite this year and is going back to the super bowl. Players CAN get better, look at drew brees.
 

slayer202

Lifer
Nov 27, 2005
13,679
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When I think of elite I think of talent and ability to win. Not ability to be placed in a strong organization with the right pieces around you. Eli won his last superbowl and is in this one largely due to the talent around him. That doesn't mean he is elite. It means he is in a good situation.

talent and ability to win. eli has plenty of both...it's a cop out to say he's only in this position because of his team. you can say that about anyone, it's a silly argument. there are plenty of more skilled qbs on equally good teams who haven't had the success he has. his clutch factor adds to his "eliteness" as well.
 

rcpratt

Lifer
Jul 2, 2009
10,433
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I guess it depends how you define elite. My elite QBs are Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and Peyton if/when he is healthy. The group behind them consists of guys like Rivers, Ryan, Stafford, Eli, Schaub, Romo, and Roethlisberger. I guess I could see arguments for putting him both near the front and near the back of that group.
 
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Cuda1447

Lifer
Jul 26, 2002
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talent and ability to win. eli has plenty of both...it's a cop out to say he's only in this position because of his team. you can say that about anyone, it's a silly argument. there are plenty of more skilled qbs on equally good teams who haven't had the success he has. his clutch factor adds to his "eliteness" as well.

It's not a cop out. It's a team game. This isn't basketball. This is a game with a 53 man roster, where a good 35-40 guys make a very real impact on your team winning and losing. He plays at the most important position, but he can't do it alone. His brother is a perfect example of elite. 12-4 with him, 2-14 without. There are a handful of elite quarterbacks in the league, not everyone can be elite. You can't have 15 elite quarterbacks, that's half the damn league. He is not better than Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, Rothlisberger, Rivers, Brees etc... That short list right there makes him 7. I can argue that there are another 4-5 guys better than him. If he's not in the top 7, he's not elite. Hell, I'd say top 5 is where you need to be. Brees, Peyton, Rodgers, Brady. Those are your elite QB's. That's it. They play at another level. They are the top in the game.


A guy who is on a good team, throws a 2-1 td/int ratio and routinely throws up absolute prayers that has gotten lucky a few times is not elite. An elite QB makes it known that he is elite, throughout the course of his career and doesn't have to rely on a few lucky plays that get him to the Superbowl for the 2nd time.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
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I'm a Giants fan, and I mostly agree. He's somewhere in the top 10, maybe closer to 5 than to 10. He's top-tier, but not "elite."

It's kind of silly that we're still discussing this though. If he's better than 3/4 of the other starters in the league, that's good enough to do great things with a good team around him.

At least he's not Tony Romo.
 

amdhunter

Lifer
May 19, 2003
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10437667.jpg
 

etrigan420

Golden Member
Oct 30, 2007
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If you put Phillip Rivers, Matthew Stafford or a good deal of other quarterbacks on that team, you'd probably be in a pretty similar position.

You had me up until this point...Phillip Rivers is a fucking hack.

Eli has been (or will be shortly) the starting quarterback on 2 Super Bowl teams, and has already won one. I think that says enough right there.

Your definition of "elite" obviously doesn't match what just about every one else considers "elite", but Phillip. Fucking. Rivers?
 

Cuda1447

Lifer
Jul 26, 2002
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Eli is an elite qb. He makes those receivers who they are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIgVDScdL0E

That's what Eli does. That's why he throws a ton of interceptions. But it's also why he's in the position he's in. His receivers have helped him out a ton and he's been lucky for it. David Tyree is another, more famous example. Eli routinely just throws the ball up and his receivers are making plays on the ball. That's not Eli being a great QB. That's Eli praying. It's going to happen to every QB from time to time. But Eli does it a lot more than most. He's been luckier this year than in 2008 and 2009. That's the difference.
 

Falloutboy

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2003
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Stafford > Eli

if the Lions had some semblance of a good and consistent defense they would be a superbowl team.

only time he struggled is when he was throwing with a broken hand...let me restate that broken hand, and he still had a 5000 yard season with those down games
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
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Career statistics:
Peyton: 64.9% comp, 2.0 TD/INT, 94.9 rtg
Brady: 63.8% comp, 2.6 TD/INT, 96.4 rtg
Brees: 65.9% comp, 1.9 TD/INT, 94.0 rtg
Rodgers: 65.4% comp, 3.5 TD/INT, 104.1 rtg
Eli: 58.4% comp, 1.4 TD/INT, 82.1 rtg
Jay Cutler: 61.1%, 1.4 TD/INT, 84.5 rtg

Is Jay Cutler also elite?