Eli Manning is NOT an elite quarterback and anyone who says otherwise is...

[Analog]

Stafford > Eli

if the Lions had some semblance of a good and consistent defense they would be a superbowl team.

qft

 

[Cuda1447]

You had me up until this point...Phillip Rivers is a fucking hack.

Eli has been (or will be shortly) the starting quarterback on 2 Super Bowl teams, and has already won one. I think that says enough right there.

Your definition of "elite" obviously doesn't match what just about every one else considers "elite", but Phillip. Fucking. Rivers?

Again, prisoner of the moment. Phillip had a career worst year. One year doesn't make a QB. Rivers threw 27 TD's and 20 int's for 4700 yards this year. Slightly worse than Eli, yet he's a hack?!? The two years prior, 68 tds and 21 ints. Much better numbers than Eli. But he's a hack?!?

Come on man. Eli is the starting QB on 2 Super Bowl teams because of THE TEAM. THE 53 MAN ROSTER IS BETTER. That's it. Sure, Eli had something to do with it. A big part probably. But he is far from the sole reason. He is a good QB. But unlike Brady, he isn't one of the sole reasons his team is in the Superbowl. Hell, fucking ALEX SMITH almost beat him. If we are judging a QB's talent by their wins and losses only, than Alex Smith was two fumbled punts away from being better than Eli Manning and I think we all know that is ludicrous.

 

[IAteYourMother]

Eli is a pretty great QB right now.

HOWEVER, the talk of what a great game he played in the NFCCG is just ridiculous, especially contrasted with the talk of how poorly Alex Smith played. I'd say Eli played just as poorly as Alex Smith, esp. in the 2nd half. Eli just happened to get bailed out on 2 would-be INTs that could've turned the tide of an incredibly tight game.

 

[BrokenVisage]

And my last point, the most important. If the 49ers hadn't fumbled two punt returns and basically gave the win to the Giants (who did VERY little offensively) the Giants would be out of the playoffs and nobody would be talking about him being elite. But because the 49ers screwed up and the Giants defense is pretty damn good, people give Eli more credit than he deserves. He had very little to do with that win.

VERY little offensively? So, 300+ passing yards, 2 TDs, %50+ completion percentage, and NO turnovers despite 60 drop-backs and 20 hits on the road, going from east to west coast, against the concensus BEST defense in the league is VERY little?? Not to mention their running game is garbage right now with the better of both backs still dealing with a lingering injury. Give me a break, you were doing okay until exposing yourself with that ridiculousness. The Patriots lost the turnover battle in their game too and wound up winning, and Brady SUCKED going up against the lesser defense compared to the Niners and was thoroughly outplayed by Flacco, but he's widely regarded as elite.

Bottom-line, it all comes down to what you do in the playoffs, THAT is where you earn the "elite" tag. Rapersberger isn't exactly Mr. Consistent game in and game out, but he's still elite for what he did in the post-season. Eli now has more away playoff wins then any other QB all-time, and it's HARD to win on the road, so give me a break and give the man his due. Elite can be a subjective term, maybe you're thinking of the movie Hackers and how they were throwing the word around.

 

[Cuda1447]

Career statistics:
Peyton: 64.9% comp, 2.0 TD/INT, 94.9 rtg
Brady: 63.8% comp, 2.6 TD/INT, 96.4 rtg
Brees: 65.9% comp, 1.9 TD/INT, 94.0 rtg
Rodgers: 65.4% comp, 3.5 TD/INT, 104.1 rtg
Eli: 58.4% comp, 1.4 TD/INT, 82.1 rtg
Jay Cutler: 61.1%, 1.4 TD/INT, 84.5 rtg

Is Jay Cutler also elite?

Good stats. Its ridiculous how good Rodgers numbers are. I know he's a very very good QB, but you have to wonder if those numbers aren't inflated a bit because of the system.


I'll say this though. I honestly believe Jay Cutler is a better QB than Eli Manning. He has just been in an absolutely TERRIBLE situation.

 

[dougp]

At least he's not Tony Romo.

Quit trolling.

 

[MotF Bane]

Elite is top four or five; as it stands, that's Peyton, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers.

If you're trying to convince everyone you're elite, telling people you're elite, then you simply aren't.

I'm a Giants fan, and I mostly agree. He's somewhere in the top 10, maybe closer to 5 than to 10. He's top-tier, but not "elite."

It's kind of silly that we're still discussing this though. If he's better than 3/4 of the other starters in the league, that's good enough to do great things with a good team around him.

At least he's not Tony Romo.

And this is also true. I may really dislike him, but I'd take him as QB over the majority of the starting QB's.

He fits perfectly into a second tier, with guys like Rofflesburger, Schaub, and Stafford.

P.S. Romo sucks. :awe:

 

[MotF Bane]

Again, prisoner of the moment. Phillip had a career worst year. One year doesn't make a QB. Rivers threw 27 TD's and 20 int's for 4700 yards this year. Slightly worse than Eli, yet he's a hack?!? The two years prior, 68 tds and 21 ints. Much better numbers than Eli. But he's a hack?!?

Come on man. Eli is the starting QB on 2 Super Bowl teams because of THE TEAM. THE 53 MAN ROSTER IS BETTER. That's it. Sure, Eli had something to do with it. A big part probably. But he is far from the sole reason. He is a good QB. But unlike Brady, he isn't one of the sole reasons his team is in the Superbowl. Hell, fucking ALEX SMITH almost beat him. If we are judging a QB's talent by their wins and losses only, than Alex Smith was two fumbled punts away from being better than Eli Manning and I think we all know that is ludicrous.

Also, Coughlin is a better coach than Turner.

 

[etrigan420]

Again, prisoner of the moment. Phillip had a career worst year. One year doesn't make a QB. Rivers threw 27 TD's and 20 int's for 4700 yards this year. Slightly worse than Eli, yet he's a hack?!? The two years prior, 68 tds and 21 ints. Much better numbers than Eli. But he's a hack?!?

Come on man. Eli is the starting QB on 2 Super Bowl teams because of THE TEAM. THE 53 MAN ROSTER IS BETTER. That's it. Sure, Eli had something to do with it. A big part probably. But he is far from the sole reason. He is a good QB. But unlike Brady, he isn't one of the sole reasons his team is in the Superbowl. Hell, fucking ALEX SMITH almost beat him. If we are judging a QB's talent by their wins and losses only, than Alex Smith was two fumbled punts away from being better than Eli Manning and I think we all know that is ludicrous.

Phillip. Rivers. Is. A. Hack.

Get over it.

You can't discount Eli for having a good support staff and *not* discount Rivers for the same. What has San Diego done since LT? Oh, that's right...Jack Schitt.

I'd take John fucking Kitna over Phillip Rivers.

 

[MotF Bane]

Eli is a pretty great QB right now.

HOWEVER, the talk of what a great game he played in the NFCCG is just ridiculous, especially contrasted with the talk of how poorly Alex Smith played. I'd say Eli played just as poorly as Alex Smith, esp. in the 2nd half. Eli just happened to get bailed out on 2 would-be INTs that could've turned the tide of an incredibly tight game.

And bailed out by the fact that he just could throw the ball vaguely in the direction of a single coverage receiver, and the receiver would get the thing. Cruz, Nicks, and Manningham could make a lot of QB's look brilliant.

 

[SSSnail]

This coming from a guy who thinks Tebow is winning, that's rich.

 

[Cuda1447]

VERY little offensively? So, 300+ passing yards, 2 TDs, %50+ completion percentage, and NO turnovers despite 60 drop-backs and 20 hits on the road, going from east to west coast, against the concensus BEST defense in the league is VERY little?? Not to mention their running game is garbage right now with the better of both backs still dealing with a lingering injury. Give me a break, you were doing okay until exposing yourself with that ridiculousness. The Patriots lost the turnover battle in their game too and wound up winning, and Brady SUCKED going up against the lesser defense compared to the Niners and was thoroughly outplayed by Flacco, but he's widely regarded as elite.

Bottom-line, it all comes down to what you do in the playoffs, THAT is where you earn the "elite" tag. Rapersberger isn't exactly Mr. Consistent game in and game out, but he's still elite for what he did in the post-season. Eli now has more away playoff wins then any other QB all-time, and it's HARD to win on the road, so give me a break and give the man his due. Elite can be a subjective term, maybe you're thinking of the movie Hackers and how they were throwing the word around.

Do you think Brady is going to have more playoff wins than Eli when the Patriots are always a number 1 seed? Eli's team has barely made the playoffs a few times and as a result are low seeds and playing more road games. I'll give him credit, he has done well in those games. But an elite QB gets his team to the playoffs every year, not once every 3 years.

As for the 49ers game. Yes, he had 300 yards passing. IN 60 FREAKING DROP BACKS. Tebow might be able to put up those numbers It was a tough test, San Francisco has a great defense. But my point is still this, the Giants lose that game and Eli isn't being talked about as Elite if the niners don't choke. Eli had nothing to do with those muffed punts and did not put up enough points to win that game without those fantastically great field positions. He didn't throw any picks, but that same game played 10 times, he could have easily thrown 2-3 picks and been blown out. Sure, he got lucky that game.


As for Brady having a bad game. Yes, he had an awful game. Against another very good defense. But here's the HUGE difference. Brady gets his team to the playoffs (as a high seed) every year. He puts up great numbers, every year. Eli has made 2 good runs in 8 years now. Which could very easily still have been 1 good run in 8 years. It wouldn't surprise me if the Giants missed the playoffs for the next 5 years straight after this, despite having a pretty good team. Why? Because Eli is good, but nothing special.

 

[MotF Bane]

VERY little offensively? So, 300+ passing yards, 2 TDs, %50+ completion percentage, and NO turnovers despite 60 drop-backs and 20 hits on the road, going from east to west coast, against the concensus BEST defense in the league is VERY little?? Not to mention their running game is garbage right now with the better of both backs still dealing with a lingering injury. Give me a break, you were doing okay until exposing yourself with that ridiculousness. The Patriots lost the turnover battle in their game too and wound up winning, and Brady SUCKED going up against the lesser defense compared to the Niners and was thoroughly outplayed by Flacco, but he's widely regarded as elite.

Bottom-line, it all comes down to what you do in the playoffs, THAT is where you earn the "elite" tag. Rapersberger isn't exactly Mr. Consistent game in and game out, but he's still elite for what he did in the post-season. Eli now has more away playoff wins then any other QB all-time, and it's HARD to win on the road, so give me a break and give the man his due. Elite can be a subjective term, maybe you're thinking of the movie Hackers and how they were throwing the word around.

The playoffs aren't what solely earn the elite tag. Neither is a single game (i.e. Brady not playing well last Sunday). It's the sum of a career. Brady plays at an extremely high level week after week. A "career game" for Brady means breaking records that belonged to the best QB's from decades past, or records that were set by one of the four elites of this era. A bad game means a few picks and often a loss to go with it, and those are pretty uncommon sights.

BTW - Rofflesburger isn't elite.

 

[Cuda1447]

This coming from a guy who thinks Tebow is winning, that's rich.

I knew I'd get shit about that. I guess I just don't go with the common opinion of the 'experts' on tv.

Eli is a WAAAY better QB than Tebow though, for what its worth.

 

[Cuda1447]

Phillip. Rivers. Is. A. Hack.

Get over it.

You can't discount Eli for having a good support staff and *not* discount Rivers for the same. What has San Diego done since LT? Oh, that's right...Jack Schitt.

I'd take John fucking Kitna over Phillip Rivers.

I don't know what it is you have against Phillip Rivers, but its obvious you aren't being unbiased here and it hurts your credibility. By basically any measurement we have, Phillip Rivers is considered a good qb, if not a very good qb. And what did San Diego do with LT? Underachieved. That franchise has problems, it's not just one man.

 

[dougp]

Career statistics:
Peyton: 64.9% comp, 2.0 TD/INT, 94.9 rtg
Brady: 63.8% comp, 2.6 TD/INT, 96.4 rtg
Brees: 65.9% comp, 1.9 TD/INT, 94.0 rtg
Rodgers: 65.4% comp, 3.5 TD/INT, 104.1 rtg
Eli: 58.4% comp, 1.4 TD/INT, 82.1 rtg
Jay Cutler: 61.1%, 1.4 TD/INT, 84.5 rtg

Is Jay Cutler also elite?

Romo: 64.5% comp, 2.0 TD/INT, 96.9 rtg
Ben: 63.1% comp, 1.7 TD/INT, 92.1 rtg
Schaub: 64.3% comp, 1.7 TD/INT, 92.2 rtg

You forgot this stat -

Game Winning Drives
Peyton: 46
Brady: 34
Brees: 29
Rodgers: 6
Eli: 23
Romo: 14
Ben: 26
Schaub: 10
Cutler: 16

Though GWD's are good to throw in, most of these stats show that Eli isn't at the level of the other "elite" QBs. Period. He isn't winning the Super Bowls on his own, he's really getting bailed out by his WRs.

 

[Exterous]

stats do not dictate greatness/eliteness

matt stafford is a more skilled qb but eli has won a superbowl and has led his team to another. he's a leader and is definitely in the elite category

Absolutely agreed. Eli is far too inconsistent to earn the title "elite". One day he'll lead the Giants to a pair of touchdown drives in the late fourth quarter, the next, he'll throw four picks on throws that shouldn't have been attempted.

It really depends on how you perform in the playoffs. People remember much more about who wins in the playoffs than who wins during the regular season. I think its a bit early to say 'Elite' but he wins when it matters. If he wins again against Tom Brady I think you'll have to resign yourself to the fact that people will call him Elite

But unlike Brady, he isn't one of the sole reasons his team is in the Superbowl.

Yeah - the Patriots are such a bad team that a quarterback who never started in college wasn't able to do anything with the team

 

[seepy83]

But an elite QB gets his team to the playoffs every year, not once every 3 years.

Brees hasn't brought his team to the post-season every year. Does that mean he's not elite?

 

[Cuda1447]

Romo: 64.5% comp, 2.0 TD/INT, 96.9 rtg
Ben: 63.1% comp, 1.7 TD/INT, 92.1 rtg
Schaub: 64.3% comp, 1.7 TD/INT, 92.2 rtg

You forgot this stat -

Game Winning Drives
Peyton: 46
Brady: 34
Brees: 29
Rodgers: 6
Eli: 23
Romo: 14
Ben: 26
Schaub: 10
Cutler: 16

Though GWD's are good to throw in, most of these stats show that Eli isn't at the level of the other "elite" QBs. Period. He isn't winning the Super Bowls on his own, he's really getting bailed out by his WRs.

Stats are great and they do help us build a picture. But everything has to be taken with a grain of salt and all aspects have to be considered to build a quality opinion of a player. Unfortunately, the people calling Eli elite are only looking at playoff wins and discounting the eyeball test, the regular season, all the statistics and the pieces around him.

I'm actually surprised Eli's game winning drives aren't higher. I was ready to argue against that stat, but it doesn't seem like I have to now. I still will though. Look at Rodgers. His game winning drivers are very low because they blow out a lot of teams. Brady blows out a lot of teams too, but still has a ton of game winning drives. Eli has a moderate amount, but let's be honest, the Giants aren't blowing out a lot of people.

What would be a better stat is game winning drive percentage. I don't know if they make that stat, but it would hold a lot more weight.

 

[JTsyo]

I agree, Eli is not as good as Peyton, Brady, and Rodgers. He has being good this year from not making the bad throws though. Learning as he goes. As long as he keeps getting the Giants though the playoffs, I'm OK with it.

 

[purbeast0]

i agree, eli is not elite by any means. i am not sold on him at all. he has 3 star receivers on his team who bail him out big time.

the receivers are making him look good. elite qb's make no name receivers look good.

look at brady, rodgers, peyton manning, and brees. all of them have a bunch of no name receivers who don't make highlight reels on a regular. they are elite qbs.

 

[aldamon]

Will all due respect, there are only 32 starting QBs in the league and we have a pretty good idea of what ones are good or not. A rolling top 10 is probably sufficient for any given season. Dividing them even further into stupid categories like "elite" is just a wasteful exercise meant to take up air time and article space (think John Clayton). As even the OP argues, Eli is easily a Top 10 QB and his team is in the Super Bowl due in no small part to some excellent play from him. Who the fuck cares about the stupid "elite QB" argument of 2011? Time to move on to the next fad talking point. This one is stale.

 

[Cuda1447]

Brees hasn't brought his team to the post-season every year. Does that mean he's not elite?

You have to look at EVERYTHING a qb does. Not just a piece. Drew Bree's also has a higher completion percentage, more yards per pass and a higher td/int ratio, by quite a bit, than Eli. He also appears to throw the ball more accurately than Eli in the eyeball test.

Since 2006 Bree's was in the playoffs 5 of 6 years, missing it in the 2007 season.

Since 2006 Eli Manning was in the playoffs 4 out of 6 years. Missing 2009 and 2010.

 

[purbeast0]

When I think of elite I think of talent and ability to win. Not ability to be placed in a strong organization with the right pieces around you. Eli won his last superbowl and is in this one largely due to the talent around him. That doesn't mean he is elite. It means he is in a good situation.

eli won his last superbowl due to luck.

 

[Capt Caveman]

It really depends on how you perform in the playoffs. People remember much more about who wins in the playoffs than who wins during the regular season. I think its a bit early to say 'Elite' but he wins when it matters. If he wins again against Tom Brady I think you'll have to resign yourself to the fact that people will call him Elite

Yeah - the Patriots are such a bad team that a quarterback who never started in college wasn't able to do anything with the team

So, Tim Tebow was elite this year and Rodgers was not?

Eli Manning is elite compared to Tebow but has to win this SB and/or have a couple of more years like this one to be considered elite.