Egypt protest broke out in violence

[Zebo]

If you listened to the video in the first link you'll find that the reporter said that he was attacked by security forces in plain clothes, the regime always uses this dirty trick, also Mubarak's hired thugs of course wear civilian clothes.



Not true, the Muslim Brotherhood is not behind the protests and declared before 25th of January that they will not participate in the demonstrations. The groups behind the protests are secular groups formed mostly of youth like the "6th of April Movement", "The National Society for Change", "We are All Khalid Said", and others.

I explained in my previous post that the demonstrators declared that they have nothing to do with these negotiations.


You obviously don't know what is really going on in Egypt.

I've heard this all before somewhere

The revolution was populist, nationalist and later Shi'a Islamic. It was in part a conservative backlash against the Westernizing and secularizing efforts of the Western-backed Shah,[17] and a liberal backlash to social injustice and other shortcomings of the ancien régime.[18] The Shah was perceived by many as beholden to — if not a puppet of — a non-Muslim Western power (the United States)[19][20] whose culture was impacting that of Iran.

Other opposition groups[50] included constitutionalist liberals — the democratic, reformist Islamic Freedom Movement of Iran, headed by Mehdi Bazargan, and the more secular National Front. They were based in the urban middle class, and wanted the Shah to adhere to the Iranian Constitution of 1906 rather than to replace him with a theocracy,[51] but lacked the cohesion and organization of Khomeini's forces.[52]

I hope the useful idiots secular liberals are not treated like Khomeini did with his in years of purges.

 

[Zebo]

So when do we invade Saudi Arabia?

What for? They are in no risk of falling. They have the money to treat their people well. Very well. So well you get a free house when married, free everything medical, free university even in UK or USA etc. Only the most fundamentalist harbor delusions of overthrow not to mention it lives under sharia law anyway so it would not be much of an overthrow. They like it as is.

 

[AshPhoenix]

I've heard this all before somewhere





I hope the useful idiots secular liberals are not treated like Khomeini did with his in years of purges.

Yeah, the USA shouldn't have overthrown Mossadeq.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

You're confusing the "opposition" with the demonstrators. The "negotiations" that the regime held is a game to circumvent the demands of the demonstrators. The regime made these negotiations with some puppet "opposition" parties and the Muslim Brotherhood who did not lead the demonstrations and do not represent the demonstrators and don't have the right to negotiate on behalf of them.

The demonstrators have made it clear that they have nothing to do with these so called negotiations and that they won't negotiate anything with the government before Mubarak steps down.

The only opposition IS the Muslim Brotherhood.

The demonstrators have said that no negotiations that doesn't include the riddance of Mubarak can be accepted, nothing more, they do indeed want the opposition as their leadership and the ONLY opposition is the Muslim Brotherhood.

That is the way it is whether you like it or agree with it or not. Your viewpoint, much like the demonstrators viewpoints matter not at all.

It's just like it was in Iran, the "peoples revolution", remember....

They were not careful about what they asked for and they got it, decades of opression under the threat of torture and public executions.

 

[Zebo]

Yeah, the USA shouldn't have overthrown Mossadeq.

Absolutely but we have evil men here too. I wish you luck and peace - but from things I've seen it does not look good. I've seen some protesters try and break out anti American and Muslim signs and then quickly ushered to put them away by agents of some sort. I've seen polling data which indicates most Egyptian Muslims are what we at least refer to as fundamentalist. I read Stratfor which says it will go MB. The only group with any power is a fundamentalist group (MB). I have a time hard believing our faith based newscasters hope for the best with no evidence for this religion they have adopted.


Time will tell.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Yeah, the USA shouldn't have overthrown Mossadeq.

You do realise that it was the "peoples revolution" that put the population in an opressive regime that is never to be changed as Sharia Law prescribes.

It will be the same outcome in Egypt, the religious leadership will be the rulers and you get to elect any one of their puppets.

 

[AshPhoenix]

The only opposition IS the Muslim Brotherhood.

The demonstrators have said that no negotiations that doesn't include the riddance of Mubarak can be accepted, nothing more, they do indeed want the opposition as their leadership and the ONLY opposition is the Muslim Brotherhood.

That is the way it is whether you like it or agree with it or not. Your viewpoint, much like the demonstrators viewpoints matter not at all.

It's just like it was in Iran, the "peoples revolution", remember....

They were not careful about what they asked for and they got it, decades of opression under the threat of torture and public executions.

No, the demonstrators declared that those who negotiated the government do not represent them and do not have the right to negotiate on behalf of them. Only after Mubarak steps down a delegation formed of the groups that lead the demonstrations will negotiate with the government. The Muslim Brotherhood don't have the power to make the demonstrators go home and they are not the only opposition. The groups that lead the demonstrations are the ones that have the right and power to negotiate.

 

[JEDIYoda]

No, the demonstrators declared that those who negotiated the government do not represent them and do not have the right to negotiate on behalf of them. Only after Mubarak steps down a delegation formed of the groups that lead the demonstrations will negotiate with the government. The Muslim Brotherhood don't have the power to make the demonstrators go home and they are not the only opposition. The groups that lead the demonstrations are the ones that have the right and power to negotiate.

You must be eating the same mushrooms that Lemon Law uses......but hey dreams and hallucinations can be nice compard to reality!!

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

No, the demonstrators declared that those who negotiated the government do not represent them and do not have the right to negotiate on behalf of them. Only after Mubarak steps down a delegation formed of the groups that lead the demonstrations will negotiate with the government. The Muslim Brotherhood don't have the power to make the demonstrators go home and they are not the only opposition. The groups that lead the demonstrations are the ones that have the right and power to negotiate.

Actually, the negotiations were ended by the Muslim Brotherhood and THAT is why the demonstrators said that THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT, even though changed in all but Mubarak, isn't THEIR government, they said absolutely nothing about the Muslim Brotherhood not being their government of choice because it is. Everyone knows this.

You'll need to keep up if you are going to debate this.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I don't care what you or the likes of you think about me, you'll always accuse me of extremism just because I'm a Muslim.

That is a cop out and you know it!!
I have muslim friends who are very thankful that they are in the United States and who agree with me!!

Where are the Muslims who are in the middle?
I only see Muslim extremists........on both sides........on the far right and the far left....

This whole so called uprising in Egypt is becoming a very sad huge joke......
If there is a middle these people better take a stand or they will be servants to whichever extreme wins@!!
I am sure there are a lot more Muslims in the middle than on iether extreme.
Which begs the question -- where are they??

What I see is the same the JoS is seeing -- The only opposition party IS the Muslim Brotherhood, they are the ones behind the protests, they are the ones who have people speaking to supporters, they are the only ones that have negotiations with the current government because it's the only real opposition party there is.


shalom -- your going to need it!!

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

That is a cop out and you know it!!
I have muslim friends who are very thankful that they are in the United States and who agree with me!!

Where are the Muslims who are in the middle?
I only see Muslim extremists........on both sides........on the far right and the far left....

This whole so called uprising in Egypt is becoming a very sad huge joke......
If there is a middle these people better take a stand or they will be servants to whichever extreme wins@!!
I am sure there are a lot more Muslims in the middle than on iether extreme.
Which begs the question -- where are they??

What I see is the same the JoS is seeing -- The only opposition party IS the Muslim Brotherhood, they are the ones behind the protests, they are the ones who have people speaking to supporters, they are the only ones that have negotiations with the current government because it's the only real opposition party there is.


shalom -- your going to need it!!

I think the greeting you are looking for is Salam or even Salam Aleikum.

תשמרי על עצמך

 

[JEDIYoda]

I think the greeting you are looking for is Salam or even Salam Aleikum.

תשמרי על עצמך

actually I was using the word as meaning Peace.....but yes or shalom aleichem....but not really as a greeting..lolol

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

actually I was using the word as meaning Peace.....but yes or shalom aleichem....but not really as a greeting..lolol

It is a greeting though, isn't it?

If you don't know Hebrew, what i said at the end of my post was "take care".

 

[TareX]

Protests in Cairo turn violent

Scenes of clashes in Tahrir Square

It look like the Egyptian despot government is trying to hang on to power and have sent their people out to (block all exit and boxed in the protesters) disrupt democratic protesters and incites violent.

Turns violent?

They were chanting "peaceful"... "peaceful" and were met by tear gas, bullets, and knives. What do you think would happen?

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." -- John F. Kennedy

 

[TareX]

Islam the religion of Peace.

You make me wish there was a "downrank comment" option.

 

[TareX]

The only opposition party IS the Muslim Brotherhood, they are the ones behind the protests,

yyyyyyyyyeah.... (facepalm), you do realize the Muslim Brotherhood weren't even part of the first 3 days of the uprising, and that its leaders even criticized the movement, right?

But hey, your words have always smelled like ****.

 

[bfdd]

For all the Americans, we will deal with whatever Egyptian government comes out of this mess. Bitching about possible outcomes does no good and would only cause those parties to gain more strength in that region. Best thing we can do is sit back and hope the people get what they want.

 

[JEDIYoda]

It is a greeting though, isn't it?

If you don't know Hebrew, what i said at the end of my post was "take care".

Yes!! It is mainly used as a greeting........Yes I understood what you said!!

Aleichem shalom

 

[JEDIYoda]

you do realize the Muslim Brotherhood weren't even part of the first 3 days of the uprising, and that its leaders even criticized the movement, right?

so says you....that is not what my sources and friends I have in Egypt are telling me....
In fact it was approx. three days before they decided to let it be known they had been present since day one...go figure!!
facepalm back at ya!!

 

[JEDIYoda]

But hey, your words have always smelled like ****.

Only if you get caught with your pants down -- as you just did and have nothing better to say!!

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

yyyyyyyyyeah.... (facepalm), you do realize the Muslim Brotherhood weren't even part of the first 3 days of the uprising, and that its leaders even criticized the movement, right?

But hey, your words have always smelled like ****.

That is an absolute fabrication of reality, the Muslim Brotherhood allies started the protest RIGHT FROM THE GET GO, to say they were not a part of the initial protest is complete and utter false.

They have been and continue to be the ONLY ONE PARTY representing the opposition to the government, there isn't even another recognized party you could vote for at this point in time.

To say they are not involved is like saying that the Taliban are not invovlved with the Afghanis government in todays negotiations, we all know they are, we all hate it but what the fuck can you do, there is no alternative to the obviously corrupt regime in either place.

Unfortunatly this is history repeating itself, Egypt is the next Iran in the making as it stands today regardless of what the protesters wantor think, and the fact is, the POPULATION has wanted sharia law in Egypt for a long time, the women aren't required to wear anything at all that they don't want, but many do in support of the Muslim Brotherhood and the population as a whle DOES support the Muslim Brotherhood.

I do wish you were right, if that matters at all.

 

[iGas]

Killed in the line of duty

Abdel-Alim said several eyewitnesses told her a uniformed police captain with Egypt's notorious Central Security forces yelled at her husband to stop filming.

Before Mahmoud even had a chance to react, she said, a sniper shot him....

No investigation

He leaves behind a ten-year-old daughter, who does not yet know that her father was killed.

"I don't know how to tell her," Abdel-Alim said. "I'm afraid..."

'Concerted effort'

Yahia said he only heard of Mahmoud's shooting on the day his colleague died, adding he believed there was a concerted effort by the government to conceal what happened.

"Hospitals won't release the number of people killed or injured, or their names. What does that tell you?" he told Al Jazeera.

"Even the journalists can't find out. This shows that no one in Egypt really knows how many people were killed at the hands of the security services and the gangs of the National Democratic Party..."

Ahmed Mahmoud, right, with Enas Abdel-Alim, his wife, who says without him, her "life is over"

Mahmoud is survived by a wife and ten-year-old daughter


.

This Journalist & his family must be the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood.

.

 

[TareX]

so says you....that is not what my sources and friends I have in Egypt are telling me....
In fact it was approx. three days before they decided to let it be known they had been present since day one...go figure!!
facepalm back at ya!!

If "your sources and friends" told you the MB were behind the uprising, well then make that a double fp.

 

[TareX]

That is an absolute fabrication of reality, the Muslim Brotherhood allies started the protest RIGHT FROM THE GET GO, to say they were not a part of the initial protest is complete and utter false.

They have been and continue to be the ONLY ONE PARTY representing the opposition to the government, there isn't even another recognized party you could vote for at this point in time.

To say they are not involved is like saying that the Taliban are not invovlved with the Afghanis government in todays negotiations, we all know they are, we all hate it but what the fuck can you do, there is no alternative to the obviously corrupt regime in either place.

Unfortunatly this is history repeating itself, Egypt is the next Iran in the making as it stands today regardless of what the protesters wantor think, and the fact is, the POPULATION has wanted sharia law in Egypt for a long time, the women aren't required to wear anything at all that they don't want, but many do in support of the Muslim Brotherhood and the population as a whle DOES support the Muslim Brotherhood.

I do wish you were right, if that matters at all.

Wow, the MB allies started the demonstrations? Nice, you seem to have all your facts right there ))))))))

Who are the MB allies? I'm really interested. As far as whatever limited knowledge I know from my friends sleeping in Liberation square for 10 days, as well as reading Egyptian oppositional press for 5 years, up till the events of Jan 25, is that the MB were the only oppositional force who declined from participating in Jan 25-27. So not only were they NOT behind it, NOT the planners, they didn't even support it.

Who are the "MB allies"? You mean anyone who's anti-Mubarak? Well if that's your twisted definition of "anti-Mubarak" (=MB allies??) then sure they were behind this.

You do realize though, that the most prevalent chants included that one: "We want it a civil state, not religious, not sectarian".

Finally, putting Taliban and MB in the same sentence is just...pure class. Keep it up.

 

[AshPhoenix]

Actually, the negotiations were ended by the Muslim Brotherhood and THAT is why the demonstrators said that THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT, even though changed in all but Mubarak, isn't THEIR government, they said absolutely nothing about the Muslim Brotherhood not being their government of choice because it is. Everyone knows this.

The current government is not changed in all but Mubarak like you say, many ministers have not changed and the parliament has not been dissolved. Nothing has changed with the government actually, these are just cosmetic changes in order for the regime to save itself. The negotiations were not by the Muslim Brotherhood only, there were other opposition parties that participated. The protesters declared that those who negotiated do not represent them, and that includes the Muslim Brotherhood,

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/despite-retreats-egypt-regimes-core-stands-firm/747448/0

The meeting was dominated by official and traditional opposition groups who have no role in the street. Protesters dismiss them as part of the regime, and see their presence as a sign the government is not serious in talking to real reformers.

"Most of the people at the meeting are not part of the crisis and they haven't even set foot in Tahrir," said Youssef.

The youth activists who did attend said they were there only to deliver the message that Mubarak must go and had no authority to negotiate on behalf of the protesters. They refused to approve a final statement issued by the session.

And your claim that the Muslim Brotherhood is the protesters' "government of choice" has no basis in reality, and of course not "everyone knows this" like you claim. Obama stated that Muslim Brotherhood "don't have majority support in Egypt" [Source: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/0...says-it-will-meet-with-egypts-vice-president/].

You'll need to keep up if you are going to debate this.

I believe you're the one who needs to keep up. I'm in touch with what's going in here and with the general opinion, I have friends who participated in the protests, the two photos I posted in this thread were taken by one of them.

Anyway, like Zebo said, time will tell.