Educational costs are out of control...now high school edition...

[sourceninja]

Total bs on behalf of the school. It was a public school and if you passed all the required classes, they couldn't keep you from receiving a piece of paper saying you graduated. The most they could have done was keep you from attending the ceremony.

This happened to me in 1999. My parents were recently divorced and arguing over who should pay book fees. The school threatened me with not being able to graduate. I was lucky and had an uncle who knew the real rules and spoke with the principle. I graduated and the money got paid some time later after my parents became human beings again.

 

[Scarpozzi]

It's pretty bad because most professors have a list of books that match the curriculum. Every 2-3 years, the book companies are coming out with newer editions and I definitely see the internet login as a way for them to exploit more money.

It's a really messed up system considering what the books cost.

I remember when I was in school, I was taking a class...the text book was $189. I went online and bought the "International" version of the same text for $25 online. The only difference was that the international version was a paper cover instead of hard bound and the pages were EXTREMELY thin (but not standard paper...they were durable pages) Beer money is hard to come by in college, so it's important to save where you can.

 

[glenn1]

OP is a perfect example of typical economic thinking in this country. OMG, these big companies don't pay employees enough, burger flippers deserve $15/hour. Hey wait, you expect me to pay $150 for a textbook? That State U professor is ripping me off, don't you have a freeware version written by some Indian dude we can use instead?

 

[norseamd]

OP is a perfect example of typical economic thinking in this country. OMG, these big companies don't pay employees enough, burger flippers deserve $15/hour. Hey wait, you expect me to pay $150 for a textbook? That State U professor is ripping me off, don't you have a freeware version written by some Indian dude we can use instead?

You are ignorant and dumb.

 

[radhak]

A month ago, I was shocked to see my oldest daughter's book costs at the local university to be over $1,300 for next semester. Much of this has to do with an Internet login required for most of the classes and you cannot purchase this login separately from the required textbook (in other words, you have to buy the book from the bookstore to get the login and cannot buy used from anywhere else).....

Anyway, fast forward to today and we receive the orientation letter for my youngest daughter to go to high school next year. The shocker is that there is now a per book 'rental fee' for each book that she uses next year!?! WTF is this crap? Have we cut educational funding to the point that a person now has to treat high school (middle school next?) like college and buy your own child's books?

Really?

Does this happen anywhere else?

Which state do you live in? My daughter is in HS here in Florida, and they do (as yet) provide books on loan for free (which means, the students get books that they gotta return at end of year). Of course, that also means that some of the books she gets are thread-bare condition.

I did get lucky finding free online copies for some books, and some relatively cheap used ones on amazon.

Dunno if our school board's gonna learn from your example and start charging in the future.

But I come from India, where books were always to be paid for, always expensive, and lack of money only meant the student had to struggle by. So I'm more resigned to this, than outraged :\.

 

[Exterous]

If the only metric you're looking at with regards to a college education is total earnings, then the best possible career is Air frame Inspection and Repair. It is taught at community colleges around the country. There are jobs going wanting for this specialty in both private and government. There is another career path worth looking at in medicine. My daughter earns $45/hr as a Physical Therapist Assistant in Phoenix. Both careers mentioned take two years not four in school. I say again, college education from a purely ROI perspective is currently a poor investment.

Cherry picking examples is great but does not reflect the general, overall trend which is that college is still a better investment. Obviously there will be extremes in both cases but while 1.97x more earnings compared to a non-college grad is below the over 2x earnings peak that still translates to ~$1M more in lifetime earnings. Not bad for a $30k investment (average student loan amount) and I am pretty sure that counts as a great ROI.

 

[z1ggy]

I just assumed where I went to HS, city school taxes covered the cost of books and other things. Perhaps your local taxes do not cover the cost for school in your town? Or they've recently cut taxes?

 

[Golgatha]

Website logins tied in with physical books just sounds like DRM for physical books. Also, I haven't read all the way through this thread, but WTF is up with renting high school textbooks?! I've never heard of such a thing.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

Website logins tied in with physical books just sounds like DRM for physical books. Also, I haven't read all the way through this thread, but WTF is up with renting high school textbooks?! I've never heard of such a thing.

i think that must be a public school thing. they prolly rent them for as much as it would cost to buy them

 

[sourceninja]

I never said you should write a book, Mr. Professor. I said you should come up with your own teaching material. Write your own lessons, make your own homework, and tell us what to learn. Why do we have to buy a particular book to learn X, Y, and Z? You do realize that students are paying your salary and your job is to teach, right? Do your job. If it was all about the book, then there would be no reason for going to school! God forbid a professor actually has to take some time out of his day to generate some teaching material.

All of my good professors barely referenced our books. They actually taught, and they taught well. If we needed more details, they would often provide us with links to conference papers, journals, etc, open source material, and so on.

Honestly having taught associate level classes I came to the same conclusion. This is why when I decided to go back to school I picked an online school.

The teachers were just bullet point lecturing out of the book anyway and I can do that!. So I picked an online school that includes books in the tuition, has a "as much as you can consume per semester" model so I could speed though, and was backed with industry certifications for the field. That school for me ended up being WGU. I pay a flat fee per semester. If it's 1 class or 10 classes the fee doesn't' change. All course material (ebooks, online training tools, labs, certification exams, etc) are included. If I truly can't learn it on my own, I can schedule some one on one time with a teacher to help me get over the hump.

I'm not sure why this isn't more popular. The level of education I'm receiving is at least on par with the college where I was employed.

 

[moonbogg]

LOL. You think this country cares about education? Looks like you finally got a clue.

 

[poofyhairguy]

You could get a lot of money back if you stopped give tax breaks to married people with kids.

They get more more benefit from the government and pay less. Thats fuckin bullshit.

Meh you will want those kids to pay your social security check someday.

 

[squarecut1]

LOL. You think this country cares about education? Looks like you finally got a clue.

It is true that education is very low on the list in this country. That explains a lot

 

[MarkXIX]

Wrong-o, college is a great investment if you pick a field that is in demand.

And if you are wise in your selection of said college. My kids, short of full-ride scholarship type arrangements will most definitely be starting their first two years in a community college type situation. I did it and in the end it doesn't make a difference honestly. My degree is from a large university, despite the entry level courses being from somewhere else.

Also, I had good luck "renting" digital copies of my books for many of my classes. I found it to be a good compromise for many reasons:

1) No lugging around large books. I'm in the Army and I've carried days worth of survival supplies that weighed less.
2) Digital means fully searchable which made online, multiple choice exams TOO EASY sometimes.
3) No time wasted trying to sell the books back and being pissed off at the 5% value returned.

Bottom line, it was a great alternative and almost universally accessible (web page, app, etc.).

 

[Cappuccino]

£9k per year here.

 

[shortylickens]

Meh you will want those kids to pay your social security check someday.

how can they if we keep skimping on their education?

 

[Bateluer]

OP is a perfect example of typical economic thinking in this country. OMG, these big companies don't pay employees enough, burger flippers deserve $15/hour. Hey wait, you expect me to pay $150 for a textbook? That State U professor is ripping me off, don't you have a freeware version written by some Indian dude we can use instead?

They don't burger flip now. They push a button, and the upper part of the grill descends to cook both sides of the pattie on a set timer. It opens again once the timer hits zero.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Cherry picking examples is great but does not reflect the general, overall trend which is that college is still a better investment. Obviously there will be extremes in both cases but while 1.97x more earnings compared to a non-college grad is below the over 2x earnings peak that still translates to ~$1M more in lifetime earnings. Not bad for a $30k investment (average student loan amount) and I am pretty sure that counts as a great ROI.

While I may have been cherry picking in response to halik and kaidos comments, you are abusing statistics. The top 1% once again manages to make averages look mighty fine. The truth is that for the majority of students, college is currently a poor investment. Trade and tech schools are a much better investment which does not preclude attending a university later while earning enough to avoid student loans altogether.

As a society, we've continued to sell our 'youts' a bill of goods regarding the importance of a college degree that only benefits academia and publishers.

 

[Imaginer]

I expected this out of college to have relatively expensive textbook costs.... Of which I still keep some of them, out of on hand references.

But now high school?

The time I went through the miserable gauntlet, textbooks are on loan, and there is a nice section behind the cover to have the check-in user's name, date, and condition. When books are outdated in most of the contents of information, the school replaces them for the classrooms that uses them OR when the current crop of books are still in use and some are in beyond disrepair - those books get replaced individually, possibly in a group order. Also, if a student deliberately abuses the book, the student replaces that book - pending on school policy (which is most likely all schools adopt). Hence why many students make or use book covers.

The only books that required the students to purchase, is the supplimental reading novels of English classes (some of the books that is on the reading list). Math books, Physics books, basically any of the STEM books - generally last for quite some time, longer than that of US and World Government books and History books - though are kept up to date in simply more robust exercises given.

Hence why it SHOULD be more cost effective going with the web login system... but textbook companies are usually contracted and up for bids - possibly a sole source selection depending on the school districts. In other words, it is at the core - mismanaged in cost and implementation (much like that other story with LA's school system and the iPad debacle).

Perhaps it is the administrators that need to be as educated, just as much as the students that go through the yearly school system.

 

[Imaginer]

As a society, we've continued to sell our 'youts' a bill of goods regarding the importance of a college degree that only benefits academia and publishers.

Higher education, is not a bad thing. It conforms people to a unified working knowledge base, in a should-be collaborative setting that exercises the students learned knowledge and inquiry to the teachers that guide them in obtaining knowledge and application.

It is only viewed this way, because naturally, if something can be exploited - IT WILL BE EXPLOITED. Especially if there aren't any repercussions outright.

Would some be better taking up a more practical, hands on trade instead of abstract academia? Sure, I am all for even the teachings of vocational trades even in high school - last I checked, my high school ditched welding and autoshop.... both I have taken. Hell, I had a woodshop class in middle school - that room was outfitted with many viable, powerful tools to use and learn with - but the class was regulated to simpler projects at the time I took the class.

But even now, physical education is eliminated, all physical activity in body exercise is now on the onus of the child's interest and parents to pursue outside classes and payment of such...

 

[Imaginer]

Also, I had good luck "renting" digital copies of my books for many of my classes. I found it to be a good compromise for many reasons:

1) No lugging around large books. I'm in the Army and I've carried days worth of survival supplies that weighed less.
2) Digital means fully searchable which made online, multiple choice exams TOO EASY sometimes.
3) No time wasted trying to sell the books back and being pissed off at the 5% value returned.

Bottom line, it was a great alternative and almost universally accessible (web page, app, etc.).

I would have LOVED to have the tools I have now, back in school, in terms of digital textbooks, leveraged with my Surface Pro 2. I wholeheartedly agree in the many, many books in capacity along with the end-all be all trapper keeper of notes, reports, and works (my boxes and boxes of acquired notes attests to this - not counting the other boxes of textbooks).

And, that is why I also loathed open book exams (but I feel that this is the way to go) - because by their nature, it is more or less coming down to application than just rote spouting of knowledge.

 

[MarkXIX]

I would have LOVED to have the tools I have now, back in school, in terms of digital textbooks, leveraged with my Surface Pro 2. I wholeheartedly agree in the many, many books in capacity along with the end-all be all trapper keeper of notes, reports, and works (my boxes and boxes of acquired notes attests to this - not counting the other boxes of textbooks).

And, that is why I also loathed open book exams (but I feel that this is the way to go) - because by their nature, it is more or less coming down to application than just rote spouting of knowledge.

I finished college just three years ago at age 35.

I remember as a kid being poor enough that we would protect our school textbooks using brown paper bags and Scotch tape so we wouldn't have to pay for damages to our books.

 

[Miramonti]

At this point, if you're not a high school dropout starting your own tech company, you're an idiot.

 

[AMCRambler]

So the person using the books now has to pay for them? As opposed to foisting that cost onto everyone else who may or may not have a kid in school? Hmmm sounds fair to me. Hopefully they cut all funding to sports and non-education related expenditures before taking this step. My guess? Likely not. The foot ball team probably still has all their equipment, transportation and insurance fees paid for.

 

[shortylickens]

I finished college just three years ago at age 35.

I remember as a kid being poor enough that we would protect our school textbooks using brown paper bags and Scotch tape so we wouldn't have to pay for damages to our books.

35, about to graduate, I too used the paper bag cover.
Actually it was kinda nice. We could decorate them and not be punished for it.