Educational costs are out of control...now high school edition...

[Engineer]

You're right that we should have spent some of that money on education. No disagreement there.

Instead, we're cutting funds to education. That's what's leading to this discussion, in reality, now.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

The professors use the online portion more than the textbook and there is no sharing as the assignments are done online under the account and sent to the professor directly.

It's a rigged system. I've already complained to someone pretty high in the university. Was told that the textbook makers set the price but that they constantly review policies.

As a professor, I am aware of others who do this, and consider it unethical. Basically, textbook publishers provide kickbacks to professors who require their locked-down rentals. Sometimes it's blatant, like gift cards, meals, bogus "reviewer's payments," and sometimes it's more subtle - as in, auto homework submission and grading that frees up a professor's time.

That said, textbook companies are truly struggling to adapt to modern times. People will pirate a $10 CD made by an artist they love. There's literally zero disincentive to pirate a textbook for an uninteresting, required, expensive tuition course that you'll literally never use again.

I have it easy as an anatomy professor because of the open source resources, the utility of the subject (anatomy is a basic science for many programs/careers), and the relatively low cost of high-quality texts (there is a ton of competition for the anatomy text market). Also, it's not like it's a rapidly developing field at the basic level, hehe. Even still, I require only one textbook for one course (out of the four I teach). Because I'm not going to be part of the problem that you've identified.

 

[jpiniero]

Probably more a lack of fiscal discipline by the town school committee. Which is pretty standard for government work. Also check out your towns pension system, it's very likely hilariously underfunded to the point to where when the bubble bursts, it's going to be very ugly.

 

[dr150]

College is currently a poor investment. Persuade your daughter to investigate a trade or technical school.

Stripping.

Nothing pays better than stripping.

I witnessed firsthand how much cash my mom brought in after a night out.

 

[JEDI]

Stripping.

Nothing pays better than stripping.

I witnessed firsthand how much cash my mom brought in after a night out.

pic of mom?

 

[Mai72]

The book fees are to pay for those high teacher salaries!

I've seen a few teachers where I like e rolling in Porsches and minx coats.

 

[Engineer]

Probably more a lack of fiscal discipline by the town school committee. Which is pretty standard for government work. Also check out your towns pension system, it's very likely hilariously underfunded to the point to where when the bubble bursts, it's going to be very ugly.

Both of which I have no doubt. I do know the pension system (KY - which is horribly underfunded) changed a few years ago to require more money in by employee and much, much, much smaller retirement benefits. I know this because my wife was hired in on the first wave of this. Her pension will be 1/3 of what it was under old system and will require 7 more years just to receive that.

 

[slugg]

I've argued many times that books should be optional and recommended. Professors and teachers should produce their own teaching material, both verbally and in writing, that encompasses their entire curriculum. Teachers could then recommend a few books for supplemental understanding.

For example, it would be acceptable to recommend using a particular book, but it would not be acceptable to assign homework from that book. Instead, teachers should come up with their own homework, independent of any book, and assign that.

The end result is that students wouldn't be forced to buy bullshit books, just to get homework assignments from them, or just to get an online code. Paywalls for grades are the big thing right now.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Professors and teachers should produce their own teaching material, both verbally and in writing, that encompasses their entire curriculum.[/B]

This is totally asinine. You clearly have no idea at all how much time writing a book takes.

 

[slugg]

This is totally asinine. You clearly have no idea at all how much time writing a book takes.

I never said you should write a book, Mr. Professor. I said you should come up with your own teaching material. Write your own lessons, make your own homework, and tell us what to learn. Why do we have to buy a particular book to learn X, Y, and Z? You do realize that students are paying your salary and your job is to teach, right? Do your job. If it was all about the book, then there would be no reason for going to school! God forbid a professor actually has to take some time out of his day to generate some teaching material.

All of my good professors barely referenced our books. They actually taught, and they taught well. If we needed more details, they would often provide us with links to conference papers, journals, etc, open source material, and so on.

 

[MrDudeMan]

I never said you should write a book, Mr. Professor. I said you should come up with your own teaching material. Write your own lessons, make your own homework, and tell us what to learn. Why do we have to buy a particular book to learn X, Y, and Z? You do realize that students are paying your salary and your job is to teach, right? Do your job. If it was all about the book, then there would be no reason for going to school! God forbid a professor actually has to take some time out of his day to generate some teaching material.

All of my good professors barely referenced our books. They actually taught, and they taught well. If we needed more details, they would often provide us with links to conference papers, journals, etc, open source material, and so on.

This really isn't as good of a point as you clearly believe it to be. The glaring issue with what you're suggesting is that a teacher could be teaching completely erroneous, unvetted information and there are plenty of other reasons as well.

 

[slugg]

This really isn't as good of a point as you clearly believe it to be. The glaring issue with what you're suggesting is that a teacher could be teaching completely erroneous, unvetted information and there are plenty of other reasons as well.

Yes, they could be. That's the difference between a good teacher and a bad one. If the teacher sucks, then there will be more mistakes. But you know, there are ways to minimize mistakes... hmm... Let's think... When students write papers, they have to support their work with citations, proofs, and evidence. How dare we hold our poor teachers to the same standards!

 

[MrDudeMan]

Yes, they could be. That's the difference between a good teacher and a bad one. If the teacher sucks, then there will be more mistakes. But you know, there are ways to minimize mistakes... hmm... Let's think... When students write papers, they have to support their work with citations, proofs, and evidence. How dare we hold our poor teachers to the same standards!

Written another way - "let's use paying students as guinea pigs."

 

[Dari]

My cousin went to this school from 1st grade to 12th.
http://www.hewittschool.org/

When she first enrolled tuition was like $10k. It ballooned to over $40k last year. Her younger sister is in public school.

 

[mikeford]

Except for educating students schools do pretty well.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

$300 and $400 per book (including website login) is what some of the new books at the university cost. Outrageous...but now, trickling down to the high school level.

lol "website login" sounds like that latest textbook scam. first they had new editions every year, then they went to "customized" versions that couldnt be reused and now "website login". i was checking out some books the other day and some textbooks are like $350. what a scam, im glad im not in school now

 

[Dari]

lol "website login" sounds like that latest textbook scam. first they had new editions every year, then they went to "customized" versions that couldnt be reused and now "website login". i was checking out some books the other day and some textbooks are like $350. what a scam, im glad im not in school now

Never heard of this. Why do you need to log into a website if you have a textbook?

 

[lxskllr]

Never heard of this. Why do you need to log into a website if you have a textbook?

More $ for the publishers of course. Priorities man! Everyone needs their cut, with "cut" being defined as the maximum amount of money you can extract from people without risking a bullet to your head. Setup nonsense "requirements", then monetize the shit out of it. It's the American way.

 

[Dari]

More $ for the publishers of course. Priorities man! Everyone needs their cut, with "cut" being defined as the maximum amount of money you can extract from people without risking a bullet to your head. Setup nonsense "requirements", then monetize the shit out of it. It's the American way.

Yeah, but how does that work?

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Yeah, but how does that work?

1) i buy new textbook
2) redeem website code to get access to online portion if textbook content. (Like a Steam code)
3) i take class
4) i want to resell book as used to recoup costs, but i can't because it's useless without the code. (The used code is not reusable.)
5) the next student has to buy a new book

I have had a lot of professors - and even a couple colleges - who bent over backwards to keep textbook costs down. I took a math class recently that used an open source textbook, and the local CCs all stock used texts at their bookstores for pretty reasonable prices. But it's a cultural thing for an institution. A Big 10 school or State Research University has no interest in making the effort because 1) their students can, mostly, afford it, and 2) those are the professors who are getting paid to write textbooks.

 

[Herr Kutz]

Is your oldest daughter on Tinder?

 

[Dari]

1) i buy new textbook
2) redeem website code to get access to online portion if textbook content. (Like a Steam code)
3) i take class
4) i want to resell book as used to recoup costs, but i can't because it's useless without the code. (The used code is not reusable.)
5) the next student has to buy a new book

I have had a lot of professors - and even a couple colleges - who bent over backwards to keep textbook costs down. I took a math class recently that used an open source textbook, and the local CCs all stock used texts at their bookstores for pretty reasonable prices. But it's a cultural thing for an institution. A Big 10 school or State Research University has no interest in making the effort because 1) their students can, mostly, afford it, and 2) those are the professors who are getting paid to write textbooks.

What's in the online portion? Answers to questions from the book?

 

[Mixolydian]

I dunno but when I was in public school (Kindergarten through High School) the yearly fees were anywhere between $500-800.

 

[squarecut1]

There's virtually limitless ways to model the system. from outright socialism, to relying on people who care to handle it. How many scholars could our middle east adventures have financed? How many scholars could our yearly charity to Israel finance? The answer is an almost incomprehensible fuck ton.

.

How many politicians are owned by the scholars?

 

[Engineer]

1) i buy new textbook
2) redeem website code to get access to online portion if textbook content. (Like a Steam code)
3) i take class
4) i want to resell book as used to recoup costs, but i can't because it's useless without the code. (The used code is not reusable.)
5) the next student has to buy a new book

I have had a lot of professors - and even a couple colleges - who bent over backwards to keep textbook costs down. I took a math class recently that used an open source textbook, and the local CCs all stock used texts at their bookstores for pretty reasonable prices. But it's a cultural thing for an institution. A Big 10 school or State Research University has no interest in making the effort because 1) their students can, mostly, afford it, and 2) those are the professors who are getting paid to write textbooks.

If you sell the book back to the university, they will pair it with a new code and sell it used to you the next year. Of course, they pay such a low fraction of the original cost of the new book...