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EDIT: POLL NOW: Should African Americans get reparations?

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This is quite disturbing... Some of these racist comments bother me.

There really must not be any black people on Anandtech.. 'cept 4 me 😉

I would still say no though as I cannot be paid off to compensate for the horrible history that my forefathers went through as well as the problems that still exist today.. that I STILL experience.

At least it's over... and we have come a damn sure far way since then.

I don't think it's fair to compare any other group who migrated here though since not other racial/cultural group was brought here under duress. Historically, ethnic groups who were enslaved and moved or victims to genocide have an EXTREMELY difficult time returning to their former glory; we and the native americans are an example of it.

No group should be nor could be paid off to remove scars like slavery or genocide (holocaust).

I know most of you may be young but since these forums allow us to vocalize our opinions easier, it's hard for me to see that this newer, internet saavy generation is more compassionate, liberal and understanding than their parents who may have been more close-minded. Acceptance and understanding and human rights and respect is reparation enough for me... And we (any ethnic group) still do not quite receive it.
 
Originally posted by: WooDaddy
This is quite disturbing... Some of these racist comments bother me.

There really must not be any black people on Anandtech.. 'cept 4 me 😉

I would still say no though as I cannot be paid off to compensate for the horrible history that my forefathers went through as well as the problems that still exist today.. that I STILL experience.

At least it's over... and we have come a damn sure far way since then.

I don't think it's fair to compare any other group who migrated here though since not other racial/cultural group was brought here under duress. Historically, ethnic groups who were enslaved and moved or victims to genocide have an EXTREMELY difficult time returning to their former glory; we and the native americans are an example of it.

No group should be nor could be paid off to remove scars like slavery or genocide (holocaust).

I know most of you may be young but since these forums allow us to vocalize our opinions easier, it's hard for me to see that this newer, internet saavy generation is more compassionate, liberal and understanding than their parents who may have been more close-minded. Acceptance and understanding and human rights and respect is reparation enough for me... And we (any ethnic group) still do not quite receive it.
Click to expand...

What are these problems you still experience?
 
Originally posted by: Brenda17
To Vic you produce a very good argument., but what is my race to do? I get sick and tired of being treated disfavourably because of my race. I do not want to be followed around in stores because people think that i will steal because of my race or that they think that I am monosyllabic and so on. it annoys me. If people would only treat me the way that they want to be treated then I am sure that most maori would give up the return of their lands and repaprations on top of it. One of the men herethe leader of the national partytalks of ethnic separatism shown to maori and wants to shut down the Race relations office, the Human rights commission ,no more land talks , cut down funding for health for Maori and education but will not deny any of these to the asian race. of course his wife is chinese, so that might have something to do with it.. The asian invasion does not seem to piss him off the way it does me.
Click to expand...

Why does the "Asian Invasion" piss you off?
 
Originally posted by: WooDaddy
This is quite disturbing... Some of these racist comments bother me.

There really must not be any black people on Anandtech.. 'cept 4 me 😉

I would still say no though as I cannot be paid off to compensate for the horrible history that my forefathers went through as well as the problems that still exist today.. that I STILL experience.

At least it's over... and we have come a damn sure far way since then.

I don't think it's fair to compare any other group who migrated here though since not other racial/cultural group was brought here under duress. Historically, ethnic groups who were enslaved and moved or victims to genocide have an EXTREMELY difficult time returning to their former glory; we and the native americans are an example of it.

No group should be nor could be paid off to remove scars like slavery or genocide (holocaust).

I know most of you may be young but since these forums allow us to vocalize our opinions easier, it's hard for me to see that this newer, internet saavy generation is more compassionate, liberal and understanding than their parents who may have been more close-minded. Acceptance and understanding and human rights and respect is reparation enough for me... And we (any ethnic group) still do not quite receive it.
Click to expand...


You've conveniently forgotten the Chinese, if you & I were up for the same job or slot in college you'd get it because of your race.

I'd say compensation has been made for decades now, and people are getting tired of the argument.

Will "No Justice, No Peace" be chanted for a thousand years?

IMHO, for blacks to even begin to be taken seriously the following needs to happen:

Significantly reduced tolerance for drug use, out of wedlock births, violence & academic sloth.

Every other racial minority seems to "get it" except blacks, & they cling to the role of victim for what 100 years now?

I call shenanigans

(I knew listening to Travis Smiley & NPR would come in handy some day)
 
Originally posted by: Dezign
Originally posted by: Brenda17
To Vic you produce a very good argument., but what is my race to do? I get sick and tired of being treated disfavourably because of my race. I do not want to be followed around in stores because people think that i will steal because of my race or that they think that I am monosyllabic and so on. it annoys me. If people would only treat me the way that they want to be treated then I am sure that most maori would give up the return of their lands and repaprations on top of it. One of the men herethe leader of the national partytalks of ethnic separatism shown to maori and wants to shut down the Race relations office, the Human rights commission ,no more land talks , cut down funding for health for Maori and education but will not deny any of these to the asian race. of course his wife is chinese, so that might have something to do with it.. The asian invasion does not seem to piss him off the way it does me.
Click to expand...

Why does the "Asian Invasion" piss you off?
Click to expand...

Read the post.
 
Originally posted by: Brenda17
To Vic you produce a very good argument., but what is my race to do? I get sick and tired of being treated disfavourably because of my race. I do not want to be followed around in stores because people think that i will steal because of my race or that they think that I am monosyllabic and so on. it annoys me. If people would only treat me the way that they want to be treated then I am sure that most maori would give up the return of their lands and repaprations on top of it. One of the men herethe leader of the national partytalks of ethnic separatism shown to maori and wants to shut down the Race relations office, the Human rights commission ,no more land talks , cut down funding for health for Maori and education but will not deny any of these to the asian race. of course his wife is chinese, so that might have something to do with it.. The asian invasion does not seem to piss him off the way it does me.
Click to expand...
Hmm... to be honest, I was only vaguely aware of the race problems in New Zealand before your post, and I had no idea the situation was this bad. For reasons that must be related to tourism revenue, New Zealand makes sure that the image it presents to the outside world is as favorable as possible. As far as I know, most people in the US think of New Zealand as a great enlightened paradise.

So I don't really know how to answer your specific question.

But I would offer to your people the same advice I would offer the blacks in the US (if I thought they would listen). Follow the Asian example. Once horribly discriminated against in the US, the Asians have risen very high with virtually no outside assistance. They did it primarily by hunkering down, working hard (and collectively, they tend to network their business amongst themselves first), pushing their children towards getting an exceptional education, and suppressing and dealing harshly with those members of their lower classes that get out of control.

For example, one serious problem with the black communities in the US is that they never seem to take control of their criminal classes. Instead of condemning them, they tend to blame their lawlessness on the white people, on "the man" for "keeping them down". That is counter-productive, as it damages race relations and fosters even more criminal activity, which then leads to the impression that blacks have more criminals (it sounds like your people may have a similar problem).
They have a similar problem in our schools, with some black communities insisting that their children be taught a type of slang called "Ebonics" instead of getting a good education learning proper English. Once again, this is counter-productive. They need to press their children to get a good education, not a half-assed one. And they need to let the schools discipline their children. Black education is terrible in America right now. Not because blacks aren't smart, quite the opposite. But because they are not applying the right cultural and societal emphasis towards education that they should.

Now the payoff. Why do all this? Because money is power. In America, most white people don't even care about race. I don't care if my boss is white, black, Jewish, Asian, Maori, Italian 😉, whatever. What I do care about is that I have a good stable job that pays appropriately. Because just being white doesn't mean that you can't fail. It's hard for everyone out there, including whites, and there are more "white trash" living in poverty in run-down trailer parks in America than there are black people living in the entire country.

So what is needed is a "hand-up", not a "handout". The minorities need to push themselves to be the best, to suppress their criminal classes (all races have them), to press their children to get a quality education and to go to college, and then invade the workforce and make some big money, and then wield that money wisely like the power that is.

But hey, all this is just my own opinions... take it or leave it as you will 🙂


editted to fix a couple of glaring typos
 
Originally posted by: WooDaddy
This is quite disturbing... Some of these racist comments bother me.

There really must not be any black people on Anandtech.. 'cept 4 me 😉

I would still say no though as I cannot be paid off to compensate for the horrible history that my forefathers went through as well as the problems that still exist today.. that I STILL experience.

At least it's over... and we have come a damn sure far way since then.

I don't think it's fair to compare any other group who migrated here though since not other racial/cultural group was brought here under duress. Historically, ethnic groups who were enslaved and moved or victims to genocide have an EXTREMELY difficult time returning to their former glory; we and the native americans are an example of it.

No group should be nor could be paid off to remove scars like slavery or genocide (holocaust).

I know most of you may be young but since these forums allow us to vocalize our opinions easier, it's hard for me to see that this newer, internet saavy generation is more compassionate, liberal and understanding than their parents who may have been more close-minded. Acceptance and understanding and human rights and respect is reparation enough for me... And we (any ethnic group) still do not quite receive it.
Click to expand...

as usual, black people conveniently forget how the chinese were brought here during the mid 19th century.
 
eh, the north wasnt just against slavery to keep the south down you know. the fact that was that making slaves count as persons at all gives the southern voter disproportionate power in all things based on population. besides the fact that slavery was less then humane, giving slavers extra voting power for owning people...that would disturb any northerner.
 
Originally posted by: WooDaddy
This is quite disturbing... Some of these racist comments bother me.

There really must not be any black people on Anandtech.. 'cept 4 me 😉

I would still say no though as I cannot be paid off to compensate for the horrible history that my forefathers went through as well as the problems that still exist today.. that I STILL experience.

At least it's over... and we have come a damn sure far way since then.

I don't think it's fair to compare any other group who migrated here though since not other racial/cultural group was brought here under duress. Historically, ethnic groups who were enslaved and moved or victims to genocide have an EXTREMELY difficult time returning to their former glory; we and the native americans are an example of it.

No group should be nor could be paid off to remove scars like slavery or genocide (holocaust).

I know most of you may be young but since these forums allow us to vocalize our opinions easier, it's hard for me to see that this newer, internet saavy generation is more compassionate, liberal and understanding than their parents who may have been more close-minded. Acceptance and understanding and human rights and respect is reparation enough for me... And we (any ethnic group) still do not quite receive it.
Click to expand...

Umm..I don't want to be an ass or anything, and I even have Native American blood but: former glory? What glory? We simply took what land and way of life they had and destroyed it. There is no glory to return to, unless you mean you want to return to living in tribes in Africa.
 
personally i feel the whole "african american" label should be dropped. you're either american or african, pick one, but don't be both. if you were born in this country then you're an american, if you were born in this country by two foreigners from africa, you're what your parents decide to you to be, but you're not both, i dont' see why there needs to be a distinction

just my two cents, and i think its more of a unitarian comment than a racist one if anyone gets offended i'm sorry
 
Originally posted by: Cody8417
personally i feel the whole "african american" label should be dropped. you're either american or african, pick one, but don't be both. if you were born in this country then you're an american, if you were born in this country by two foreigners from africa, you're what your parents decide to you to be, but you're not both, i dont' see why there needs to be a distinction

just my two cents, and i think its more of a unitarian comment than a racist one if anyone gets offended i'm sorry
Click to expand...

So that would make me "Greekish" or "Poleek"(Greek and Polish) 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Cody8417
personally i feel the whole "african american" label should be dropped. you're either american or african, pick one, but don't be both. if you were born in this country then you're an american, if you were born in this country by two foreigners from africa, you're what your parents decide to you to be, but you're not both, i dont' see why there needs to be a distinction

just my two cents, and i think its more of a unitarian comment than a racist one if anyone gets offended i'm sorry
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
Originally posted by: cobalt
Originally posted by: Cody8417
personally i feel the whole "african american" label should be dropped. you're either american or african, pick one, but don't be both. if you were born in this country then you're an american, if you were born in this country by two foreigners from africa, you're what your parents decide to you to be, but you're not both, i dont' see why there needs to be a distinction

just my two cents, and i think its more of a unitarian comment than a racist one if anyone gets offended i'm sorry
Click to expand...

So that would make me "Greekish" or "Poleek"(Greek and Polish) 🙂
Click to expand...

GEEKish maybe 😛

I kid, I kid.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Brenda17
To Vic you produce a very good argument., but what is my race to do? I get sick and tired of being treated disfavourably because of my race. I do not want to be followed around in stores because people think that i will steal because of my race or that they think that I am monosyllabic and so on. it annoys me. If people would only treat me the way that they want to be treated then I am sure that most maori would give up the return of their lands and repaprations on top of it. One of the men herethe leader of the national partytalks of ethnic separatism shown to maori and wants to shut down the Race relations office, the Human rights commission ,no more land talks , cut down funding for health for Maori and education but will not deny any of these to the asian race. of course his wife is chinese, so that might have something to do with it.. The asian invasion does not seem to piss him off the way it does me.
Click to expand...
Hmm... to be honest, I was only vaguely aware of the race problems in New Zealand before your post, and I had no idea the situation was this bad. For reasons that must be related to tourism revenue, New Zealand makes sure that the image it presents to the outside world is as favorable as possible. As far as I know, most people in the US think of New Zealand as a great enlightened paradise.

So I don't really know how to answer your specific question.

But I would offer to your people the same advice I would offer the blacks in the US (if I thought they would listen). Follow the Asian example. Once horribly discriminated against in the US, the Asians have risen very high with virtually no outside assistance. They did it primarily by hunkering down, working hard (and collectively, they tend to network their business amongst themselves first), pushing their children towards getting an exceptional education, and suppressing and dealing harshly with those members of their lower classes that get out of control.

For example, one serious problem with the black communities in the US is that they never seem to take control of their criminal classes. Instead of condemning them, they tend to blame their lawlessness on the white people, on "the man" for "keeping them down". That is counter-productive, as it damages race relations and fosters even more criminal activity, which then leads to the impression that blacks have more criminals (it sounds like your people may have a similar problem).
They have a similar problem in our schools, with some black communities insisting that their children be taught a type of slang called "Ebonics" instead of getting a good education learning proper English. Once again, this is counter-productive. They need to press their children to get a good education, not a half-assed one. And they need to let the schools discipline their children. Black education is terrible in America right now. Not because blacks aren't smart, quite the opposite. But because they are not applying the right cultural and societal emphasis towards education that they should.

Now the payoff. Why do all this? Because money is power. In America, most white people don't even care about race. I don't care if my boss is white, black, Jewish, Asian, Maori, Italian 😉, whatever. What I do care about is that I have a good stable job that pays appropriately. Because just being white doesn't mean that you can't fail. It's hard for everyone out there, including whites, and there are more "white trash" living in poverty in run-down trailer parks in America than there are black people living in the entire country.

So what is needed is a "hand-up", not a "handout". The minorities need to push themselves to be the best, to suppress their criminal classes (all races have them), to press their children to get a quality education and to go to college, and then invade the workforce and make some big money, and then wield that money wisely like the power that is.

But hey, all this is just my own opinions... take it or leave it as you will 🙂


editted to fix a couple of glaring typos
Click to expand...

First of all, the whole Ebonics thing seems to be quite a misunderstanding. Ebonics wasn't an alternate english course to be offered in high school, it was a program for teachers to take. Essentially some thought that if teachers knew the slang they could communicate better with their students. No one was saying it should be used in place of english. Of course no one ever seems to hear that part, or even bother looking into the issue before passing judgement. I'm not saying it was a great idea, but the intent of the proposal is completely different than how its portrayed. I also believe it was only one community, Oakland, and they got laughed at all over the country before anyone finished hearing their proposal.

Asians had it bad, but it was hardly the same as what blacks went through. Black people were brought here as slaves and considered property for roughly 200 years, generation after generation. Then they were second class citizens for another 200 years. Thats 400 years worth of generation after generation living in a society where they are second class citizens. The first big migration of Chinese came during the gold rush. They had it bad, but Chinese were considered not as low as black people on the social scale, and their acceptance into mainstream society was easier. Discrimination that the Chinese faced was different from the discrimination that Black people faced, more than likely due to the fear that black people would reteliate for the hundreds of years of oppression. Its hardly the same thing.

Crime is higher amoung black people than other ethnic groups, but not the majority. Education is lower, but again not the majority. There are many serious issues that black people face today, but in my opinion the biggest one is the sentiment that the problems that some black people have is the problem that the majority of black people have, and it seems like yet another way to discriminate against black people. The majority of black people that play by the rules get lumped in with the criminals and flunkouts. The ones that get pointed out are the ones that are failing in society, and they get used as a representitive sample for the entire group. It also happens with Mexicans in the US. It appears that the same thing is happening in New Zealand, Canada with their natives, possibly in Austrailia, and any place where the native population was displaced. Its my opinion that its simply another form of prejudice, cloaked in fallacies.

Even weighting Chinese discrimination in the US and Jewish prosecution in germany in the 50s is ridiculous when you really consider what really happened to black people in the US. Ideally we should all be at the same place, but most ehtnic groups started are very different places when they entered the US. Look at the number of poor and uneducated in China and India. They have the same problems everyone else has. When you see immigration you're seeing a disproportion number of that group working hard to make a better life for themselves or their children, something that would be extremely hard to do in their own country. They have the benefit of civil rights. Lets see how well they do if they had to deal with the history black people had to deal with...generation after generation for 400 years having society tell them they are second class citizens. 400 years of being told you're too dumb to do anything other than menial work. They used to say that black people couldn't even compete against white athletes, like they were an inferior type of man. I think the numbers of crime and lack of education would be the same as it is for black people today if any group had the baggage black people did. Its real easy to tell someone to not make excuses when you dont have the same background. Its going to take more than 50 years of "civil rights" to fix all the problems that black people have had prior to that time. Your expectations are ideal, but not realistic if you expect all black people to have risen above their history in a relatively short time.
 
I just hate the black "leaders" (some certain "reverends" come to mind) that dont really stand for the black ideals or the black community. They mask everything as if it were for the good of the african american race when the truth is that they are completely corrupt and just want $$ for themselves.
 
hey while we're on the subject, who owes me reparations for all the shite Chengiz Khan did back in the 12th century ...?
 
Originally posted by: Triumph
Originally posted by: phantom309
Originally posted by: tm37
Originally posted by: Hans5849
No, but if they want they should get plane tickets back to africa. It was either Eddie Griffin or Chris Rock who said something about being happy they were here and not in africa

And how many white folks died during the civil war getting rid of slavery. And after the war all the rich slave owners became white trash
Click to expand...


If you think Lincoln waged an illegal war to rid the country of slavery you are sadly mistaken.

If you think that Slavery was even a central issue of the war you are even more mistaken.
Click to expand...
Okay, I'll take the bait. Specifically what was the central issue of the Civil War? And don't you dare say "State's Rights" without outlinig exactly which rights were threatened and why.
Click to expand...

Something very interesting that I read at the Lincoln Memorial last summer:

"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause." The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume V, "Letter to Horace Greeley" (August 22, 1862), p. 388.
Click to expand...

That's a very good quote - but it says that Lincoln fought the war to preserve the Union. It doesn't say anything about why the South seceded in the first place. They did so in order to continue owning slaves. Lincoln might have been indifferent to the issue, but a large and passionate majority of Americans were not - sort of like the abortion issue is now, only on a much larger scale.
 
Originally posted by: notfred
Yes, all surviving former slaves who were taken from Africa against thier will should be paid reparations.
Click to expand...

Or pay for a first class ticket for a trip back to where they originated.
 
ezign- it pisses me off because we have a man aspiring to be the prime minister of NZ coming down hard on my people and not bothering to say that there are alot of races in this country who are getting preferntial treatment to. This guy's wife is chinese but he will not say anything about the 45,000 asians already in our country. We compete against them for jobs in every field and when they come in to NZ they are autmatically granted housing after 6 weeks when most kiwis have to go onto a waiting list for 18months.
 
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