EA back at it, Sim City 5 will be online/Origin dependent

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
That's not entirely fair given that the Origin program itself was first released not even a year ago and we have no way of knowing how much (or how little) of EADM and previous services actually made it into Origin. Plus it's not that long ago that Steam was cast in a similar light, it took years for it to build a good name for itself despite having Valve (highly popular) behind it. Origin on the other hand is fairly new (hence, immature) and has EA behind it (which causes irrational nerdhate); bit of a handicap

Absolutely untrue. It was rebranded a year ago, prior to that it existed as another EA application whose name escapes me right now. I have my copy of BF2142 installed from an EA game service almost 5 years ago, said game is still there in Origin. Only difference from now and 5 years ago is that it has a new interface and a "snap-in" that is exactly the same as steams, except it doesn't work well.

Steam has its own shortcomings, but that's a different thread that I won't get into.
 

thespyder

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2006
1,979
0
0
Game of Thrones - medieval fantasy
Walking Dead - Zombie survival
Spartacus - Roman empire

you call those all original? there are tons of movies on all of those subjects.

clearly you haven't watched any of them. I would personally hold comment until you know of which you speak.
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
Um, not zero impact. not by a long chalk. Please read my full post. Impact from accessability of the game, direction and design of the game. All far from zero impact.

Do you think that a game would play differently if it was intended to be played offline instead of online? Would Diablo 3 play more like Diablo 2 if it wasn't online only? Would KoA be a different game at all played offline? I don't think there's evidence to support that. Authentication is technically a component of your gaming experience, but I think the relationship between it and gameplay is very weak especially when there are plenty of other substantially more important factors (multiplayer support, replay intent, release platform, target audience, and others no doubt).


and that is you. My experience is much different. I routinely fly places and have no access to internet on the plane, in the airport, etc.... And let me tell you that Most hotels charge for internet. Also, there are a fair number of storms that will at times disconnect the game. And during high traffic times, the ping rate can be horrible. and that isn't even counting problems at the source, say if the company takes down their server for mantenance, or discontinues supporting the game. And let's talk about 'Server Full', shall we? Wait times to get into a game that, if off line, would not exist.

Fair enough, but which scenario do you actually think is more of a niche?

Further, server discontinuation is far less often authentication servers but rather server host machines. Just because a game authenticates online does not mean it's hosted online, they're very different concepts. When those servers are taken down it means that server hosted games (such as Diablo 2) are no longer accessible, not that the game has been completely shut down. Even then it's dependent on the implementation and most companies continue support well after a game's heyday, the authentication server for NWN came down 'for good' (so it seems) just last year but it doesn't prevent online play still, it's just removed that layer.

Lag I could see as a legit concern. But still requires a server hosted game, which I would think has to be in the minority if for no other reason than cost. For D3 it makes sense, but for other games, it seems unlikely they would actually act as host given amount of hardware and bandwidth that would require.

Server full? Again, most games are not server hosted. At worst there could be an infinitesimal queue time while other people who clicked their "Log in" button before you do are authenticated.

Server down time, well it happens. But that's like not going into the ocean for fear of sharks or going out into a storm because of lightning. The chance is always there but in actuality it won't ever affect most people.


But my comment about the trend being disturbing is exactly what I meant. there is a distinct trend towards requiring online play. Even for games like KoA:S where there is no need or reason for it (other than DRM which could be handled as a one time or 'on execute' one ping). And there have been specific and distinct changes in the design and direction of games to make them more 'online friendly'. And for online social games, that is fine. But I don't want my RPG solo effort games to all of the sudden be made so that my Avatar isn't 'The hero of the land' and made into 'One of 50,000 other heroes roming the land, killing the exact same bad guys OVER AND OVER AND OVER, farming and grinding for that special unique drop'. yet that is the way game development is going. I find that HUGELY disturbing.

Again, huge logic leap being made here between "online authentication" and "rampant MMO gameplay". If you actually believe it, it could be disturbing. But it's wholly unbelievable.

What specific and distinct changes? You allude to these repeatedly but haven't really given a concrete example.


and, although this is a totally separate issue, since you mentioned it, being online means being online, and all that goes with it. Means you are subject to internet intrusion, a concern that does not happen if you are off line. So your crack about 'invaded' has very real impact. Not that someone might pop into your game of Skyrim and start fighting monsters with you, but they might pop in and steal your identity or your financial information. Or planting worms and viruses. The fact that there is an extrance into your computer that is required to be open while you play is a risk that some players may chose not to entertain when they are playing solo. And you want to know what population has a higher than average Tech ability and interest in hacking? PC Gamers.

Some serious FUD in here.


But there are other issues, not the least of which is that games which would routinely be single player are now being Designed with Multi-player and Online features. Features that players like myself have serious concerns about. Once I kill a given bad guy boss, I don't expect him to magically respawn for the next adventurer to kill. But games are being designed that way. I don't expect that treasure and plants and loot to suddenly respawn out of no where so that 'in the chance of multi-player' others can benefit.

These are very definite impacts from the trend towards 'always on online'. Developers start out with 'Let's make Star Craft 2 always online'. Then, while we are at it, let's make the game 'Multi-player friendly'. Then, instead of coding one thing for the single player and another for the multi-player, let's save some money and build one engine. No one 'Really' only plays single player, so the minor few won't mind the changes.' See the trend?

That's a lot of assumptions about a series of events we don't really know anything about to lead into a conclusion that hasn't even manifested itself yet.

I get it, to you 'always online' means everything that's happening is server side and potentially open to anyone else playing the same game. But that's an anomaly if anything. For almost every title mentioned here, "online" is simply referring to a manner of verifying whether or not you own the game. Not how the game is hosted.

I do very much resent the multiplayer component of mass effect 3 however. First they said it would not affect the single player game, which was not true because it affected your galactic readiness. So I played multiplayer when I really wanted to be playing the single player campaign because I thought I could get a better ending. The final joke is on me though, because even though I let myself be manipulated into playing multiplayer, the ending sucked anyway.

I wouldn't say it affects it any more than pre-order bonuses affect the game. In the most literal sense of the word, yes the game is different because of it. But playing single player only puts you at no disadvantage just like buying the game retail instead of getting the pre-order package puts you at no disadvantage, they're simply small rewards given to people who participate in those extraneous programs. In ME3's case GR is simply a multiplier that increases what % of your War Assets are utilized, but as long as you pick up enough assets along the way it makes no difference.

If for some reason they made it so that you needed a certain amount of War Assets only attainable by increasing your GR sufficiently I could see the complaint being valid, but that's not the case.
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
Absolutely untrue. It was rebranded a year ago, prior to that it existed as another EA application whose name escapes me right now. I have my copy of BF2142 installed from an EA game service almost 5 years ago, said game is still there in Origin. Only difference from now and 5 years ago is that it has a new interface and a "snap-in" that is exactly the same as steams, except it doesn't work well.

Steam has its own shortcomings, but that's a different thread that I won't get into.

Like I said, it was EADM (download manager) and a few other things prior to that. But just because the game installation followed from one version to the next doesn't mean anything other than it looks in the same directory for installed games, that it is able to autodetect it, import the settings from the previous software, or any number of other possibilities. There's no proof of Origin being new or old code either way.
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,501
12
0
One word: gay. Sim City is one of my all time favourite game series but no way am I putting up with this always-online crap.
 

thespyder

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2006
1,979
0
0
...snip....

Failure on your part to understand (or apparently even read) my posts is not my problem.

Get back to me in 5 years and see if you are capable of comprehending the issues being discussed.

In the mean time, yeah, I guess another EA game I am not looking to purchase.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
I am reminded of a statement that Bill Gates made back in the 80s about how his vision of the future. He was of the opinion that computers wouldn't have hard drives anymore and that everything would be what we now call cloud computing. Although we haven't fully realised that future yet, it does seem to be going that way.

Oh joy, I love nothing better than having to wait 15 seconds for a 5 item list box to populate as it makes 3 round trips across the galaxy before getting to my SSD array...

Until we have .01ms 2500 MB/sec internet connections, cloud computing can blow me.
 

thespyder

Golden Member
Aug 31, 2006
1,979
0
0
Oh joy, I love nothing better than having to wait 15 seconds for a 5 item list box to populate as it makes 3 round trips across the galaxy before getting to my SSD array...

Until we have .01ms 2500 MB/sec internet connections, cloud computing can blow me.

I never said it was a GOOD idea. In fact, considering who said it, that makes it pretty much the opposite. however, he is also the guy with the greatest chance of making it happen (data transfer rates be damned).

but yeah.
 

obidamnkenobi

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2010
1,407
423
136
http://store.origin.com/store/ea/en...yNA?easid=Origin-SimCity_Web_Hero_PreOrderNow

wow, I just saw those now. That's... disgusting. Some extra european landmarks that will change the architecture around them, actually sounds pretty cool. But you have to pay $20 extra for that? $80! wtf? For what is basically a skin?

You know what, screw this game. I can't support this kind of shit. I'll finally go put money toward the FTL kickstarter instead. I'll find some other indie games or something. I can live without simcity.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
Welcome to video games circa 2012 under the tyranny of EA's and Activision's "easy profit to the detriment of everything else" model.

Anyone pre order Call of Duty 19 1/2 Super White Ops Turbo Hyper Edition Revision B Release 2.0001 Limited Special Elite Collector Edition yet? I hear for $20 you can change the color of your characters eyes and for only $59 more you can get the zero day DLC that enables multiplayer. Of course that's only two player, it's an additional $5.99/mo for each player beyond that. Yes per month, endlessly, forever.

But hey you get a free 10 cent figurine with the $250 Limited Special Elite Collector Edition... but the Chinese lead paint is only included with an mail in certificate and an additional $3.

Should be able to order CoD 20 also, since it will only take a week for the level designers and texture artists to make a "new" game.
 
Last edited:

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,371
762
126
I'm pretty much at the point where if a game isn't offered DRM-free from Amazon or GOG I don't buy it.

+1.
This is the ONLY way the publishers will learn their lesson.
Stop buying crap on steam/origin/ubi/whatever else. Say NO to DRM.
 

Farmer

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2003
3,334
2
81
SimCity where neighboring cities are controlled by real humans would actually be cool.

I have no problems with Origin.
 

-Slacker-

Golden Member
Feb 24, 2010
1,563
0
76
Pffhaahahaha the game is going to get named "simcity" without it's sequel number! Yeah, that thing I said about it not being able to suck more than citiesXL, I take it back. This is going to be horrible.
 

Farmer

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2003
3,334
2
81
Pffhaahahaha the game is going to get named "simcity" without it's sequel number! Yeah, that thing I said about it not being able to suck more than citiesXL, I take it back. This is going to be horrible.

Riiighht
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
http://store.origin.com/store/ea/en...yNA?easid=Origin-SimCity_Web_Hero_PreOrderNow

wow, I just saw those now. That's... disgusting. Some extra european landmarks that will change the architecture around them, actually sounds pretty cool. But you have to pay $20 extra for that? $80! wtf? For what is basically a skin?

You know what, screw this game. I can't support this kind of shit. I'll finally go put money toward the FTL kickstarter instead. I'll find some other indie games or something. I can live without simcity.

That's just what works these days, but to me they can charge whatever they want for aesthetic stuff that doesn't actually affect the game. Hell look at what League of Legends skins cost, TF2 hats sell for, and just about every free to play game will have special character 'customizations' for sale. It's simply too lucrative to not take part in when people are so much more receptive to individual small transactions instead of lump sum purchases.
 

obidamnkenobi

Golden Member
Sep 16, 2010
1,407
423
136
That's just what works these days, but to me they can charge whatever they want for aesthetic stuff that doesn't actually affect the game. Hell look at what League of Legends skins cost, TF2 hats sell for, and just about every free to play game will have special character 'customizations' for sale. It's simply too lucrative to not take part in when people are so much more receptive to individual small transactions instead of lump sum purchases.

yeah, I know. I don't care for skins etc, and I've never bought a TF2 hat. (Actually, cosmetic items in TF2 makes even less sense to me since it's a 1st person game, but whatever.)

But for some reason I feel it's actually annoying me with Simcity, since it's more about giving your city a look.. :hmm: And this is something that I would have wanted as part of the game, and something I don't think would be ardous for the devs to include. I.e. I don't think it would cost them that much more to make it, but that's obviously not what this is about.

Perhaps a bigger debate; but is this really the inevitable direction games will go? Chopped up to pad permium/pre-order version and games specifically designed so as to facilitate as many cosmetic item options as possible? I'm not liking it at all, but am I just old fashioned? This isn't happening to movies or books as far as I know..

Actually; realized I gave Paradox $2 for a fancy "medieval infantry sprite" for EU3, and was ok with that. So maybe i'm just a hypocrite hippie hating on the big corporations..
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,081
136
+1.
This is the ONLY way the publishers will learn their lesson.
Stop buying crap on steam/origin/ubi/whatever else. Say NO to DRM.

I liked Steam better when they had full control of the titles. Then they started layering the DRM and now I'm paranoid about buying.
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
yeah, I know. I don't care for skins etc, and I've never bought a TF2 hat. (Actually, cosmetic items in TF2 makes even less sense to me since it's a 1st person game, but whatever.)

But for some reason I feel it's actually annoying me with Simcity, since it's more about giving your city a look.. :hmm: And this is something that I would have wanted as part of the game, and something I don't think would be ardous for the devs to include. I.e. I don't think it would cost them that much more to make it, but that's obviously not what this is about.

Perhaps a bigger debate; but is this really the inevitable direction games will go? Chopped up to pad permium/pre-order version and games specifically designed so as to facilitate as many cosmetic item options as possible? I'm not liking it at all, but am I just old fashioned? This isn't happening to movies or books as far as I know..

Actually; realized I gave Paradox $2 for a fancy "medieval infantry sprite" for EU3, and was ok with that. So maybe i'm just a hypocrite hippie hating on the big corporations..

Well I think the whole point is them finding ways to increase their return for not a great deal of effort, in which case aesthetic customizations are a pretty good fit.

But I don't really consider it 'chopping up' a game; no matter how 'neat' something looks it's not critical at least. I think developers are generally striking a pretty good balance between creating a complete standalone game and then creating convenient/aesthetic 'trinkets' (essentially) that they can sell for flavor that change a player's experience without changing the game itself. To that end, I think they're welcome to do whatever they think people will pay for.

I think a problem arises when something actually meaningful to the game is 'extra' though, like if you had to pay for your Police Station or your Fire Hall. That's the sort of thing completely free-to-play games are a lot messier about it, but that's a much different production model as well.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
Like I said, it was EADM (download manager) and a few other things prior to that. But just because the game installation followed from one version to the next doesn't mean anything other than it looks in the same directory for installed games, that it is able to autodetect it, import the settings from the previous software, or any number of other possibilities. There's no proof of Origin being new or old code either way.

My point is EA had digital distribution a long time ago, chose not to do anything with it, and hastily pushed out Origin after seeing steam's success to try to get some cash grab. Steam has its own share of problems but it doesn't make origin less shitty as a result.
 

KaOTiK

Lifer
Feb 5, 2001
10,877
8
81
Except origin isn't shitty?

That's the problem with everyone's arguments. Origin is actually good.

Guess it depends on your definition of good. I think it is pretty crappy. Sure it works, but I find the layout and everything to be pure shit. If it wasn't for BF3 I wouldn't even have it installed for long. There are plenty of reasons not to like Origin, sure some of the reasons in here might be hogwash but most are probably not.



The way I see it, with company's doing these silly requiring online crap for their games each time I launch them, it makes it easier for me to know which games to buy and which I don't, or at best wait till they are on sale for $5.