E3 - Official MS Press Conference Thread

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Oct 19, 2000
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I haven't seen the video of Natal yet, but from what I've read, at least they basically one-up'ed everyone and just said to hell with the controller. Can't really say Microsoft is copying anybody now, they are treading somewhat new ground. I know you had some motion activated PSEye games on the PS2, but those really were crap, and don't compare to what I've been reading about Natal in the slightest.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
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Originally posted by: peritusONE
I haven't seen the video of Natal yet, but from what I've read, at least they basically one-up'ed everyone and just said to hell with the controller. Can't really say Microsoft is copying anybody now, they are treading somewhat new ground. I know you had some motion activated PSEye games on the PS2, but those really were crap, and don't compare to what I've been reading about Natal in the slightest.

i saw the ricochet demo and the "conept video" that explicitly says the video isnt actual gameplay, and i am very unimpressed so far. it looks pretty similar to how the wii initially did, accuracy wise.
 

Thraxen

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: peritusONE
I haven't seen the video of Natal yet, but from what I've read, at least they basically one-up'ed everyone and just said to hell with the controller. Can't really say Microsoft is copying anybody now, they are treading somewhat new ground. I know you had some motion activated PSEye games on the PS2, but those really were crap, and don't compare to what I've been reading about Natal in the slightest.

Just go to XBox.com. They have the video up.

Anyway, I largely agree with Sheep. Most of those demos look like a bit of a pain to play. I hate to say this, but most of the time I'm looking to relax when gaming and jumping around just seems like too much of a hassle. Of course, I guess there will still be plenty of other games to play. But I'm pretty intrigued by the the ability to control the dash that way. The facial and voice recognition looks very promising.
 

Pheran

Diamond Member
Apr 26, 2001
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Originally posted by: Thraxen
Originally posted by: peritusONE
I haven't seen the video of Natal yet, but from what I've read, at least they basically one-up'ed everyone and just said to hell with the controller. Can't really say Microsoft is copying anybody now, they are treading somewhat new ground. I know you had some motion activated PSEye games on the PS2, but those really were crap, and don't compare to what I've been reading about Natal in the slightest.

Just go to XBox.com. They have the video up.

Anyway, I largely agree with Sheep. Most of those demos look like a bit of a pain to play. I hate to say this, but most of the time I'm looking to relax when gaming and jumping around just seems like too much of a hassle. Of course, I guess there will still be plenty of other games to play. But I'm pretty intrigued by the the ability to control the dash that way. The facial and voice recognition looks very promising.

Or just watch it right on your Xbox in the E3 section. It looks interesting, but it remains to be seen if it really works as well as they show in the demo video.
 

mmnno

Senior member
Jan 24, 2008
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Originally posted by: UpgradeFailure
So, that Milo thing was creepy as hell, but I see really cool potential for it. Could you imagine a giant game, like fable, or oblivion, where each character in the world had the milo AI? and could recognize you and talk to to you in person? That's pretty awesome

That would be pretty awesome. Sadly this is Peter Molyneux we are talking about here, so this demonstration was likely bullshit except for the camera features. Those were cool enough, but then he went on his ridiculous hype bender about how great his revolutionary AI is, when it's gonna be pretty much hard scripted stuff.
 

Sheep

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2006
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Originally posted by: Crow550
The real question is......360 owners.....You gonna snag up this camera?

Assuming it works as advertised:

--For the price of a game, it's a nobrainer.
--For $100, probably.
--For the rumored $200 price floating around, not unless it does a whole lot and really revolutionizes control methods.
 

fatpat268

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2006
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Originally posted by: Crow550
The real question is......360 owners.....You gonna snag up this camera?

Hell no... I don't have nearly enough room to be wildly flailing around without hitting something.

Besides, to use this, it looks like you need a large open space between you and the camera, and frankly, I don't have the room for that in my apartment.
 

Crow550

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2005
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LMAO! Yeah someone is gonna play some fighting game online and get there ass handed to them by some skilled martial artist from across the globe....... Or they will get to into the game and spin kick there tv.
 

Crow550

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2005
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Microsoft did pretty good though, they gave some things to shake up Sony & Nintendo which is good. We need some cages rattled! Now if the Zune HD can play games.... This will be some exciting times between the three....Console systems, four portable gaming...
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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As far as games go, we all knew MW2 would be there, and as badass as expected.

L4D2 was a shocker though...and is the best thing I've heard so far. I cant wait.

Why the hell do they have to come out days apart though!?!?


As far as the motion controls go, it looked cool, but remember how incredible the Wiimote seemed before we all finally got to play with it, and realized it wast as magical as it seemed at first glance? I have a feeling this thing has some very serious limitations, and there definitely seemed to be some killer input lag. But I'm sure there will be some cool things associated with it. It'll hardly replace controllers though.

Milo, on the other hand, was pure BS. The got some chick to read a few canned lines, Milo to respond with a few preprogrammed ones, and somehow convinced people that they've made a breakthrough in AI, voice, speech and facial recognition, several generations away from what's currently possible. It's an interesting concept with the interactivity, and we'll get there eventually, but it's perhaps the greatest bullshot of all time.

Just the thought of an Elder scrolls or fallout where I can actually talk back though...

 

erwos

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: BD2003
Milo, on the other hand, was pure BS. The got some chick to read a few canned lines, Milo to respond with a few preprogrammed ones, and somehow convinced people that they've made a breakthrough in AI, voice, speech and facial recognition, several generations away from what's currently possible. It's an interesting concept with the interactivity, and we'll get there eventually, but it's perhaps the greatest bullshot of all time.
To be fair, the press got a private backroom demo of it, and they came away somewhat impressed. It wasn't faked, as you seem to be implying.

I very much disagree that Milo is "several generations away". I think you just don't know the current state of the art for AI.
 

Kabob

Lifer
Sep 5, 2004
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Originally posted by: BD2003
Why the hell do they have to come out days apart though!?!?

My problem exactly...within a few weeks of each other I'll be buying:

Forza Motorsport 3
Tekken 6
Modern Warfare 2

I've got gift cards for Best Buy, Trade in Credit for Gamestop, and a 10% off/Gift Card for Amazon, so hopefully all 3 will be partially covered!

 
Oct 19, 2000
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I'm just now getting through the Microsoft press conference and seeing some of these things for myself. Just a few thoughts off the top of my head.

- Halo: ODST looks rather lackluster, and I'm not in the least bit excited about it. However, Halo: Reach seems very, very interesting to me.
- Alan Wake looked pretty freaky and awesomely cool.
- Project Natal demos much better than you guys explained it :). I'm really looking forward to this thing after watching these demos.
- If Natal does what Microsoft says it will do, they've completely one-up'ed EVERYBODY. It really will be a game changer if they live up to the promises. I still want my controller as a longtime gamer, but I'm actually interested in this thing.
 

BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
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Originally posted by: erwos
Originally posted by: BD2003
Milo, on the other hand, was pure BS. The got some chick to read a few canned lines, Milo to respond with a few preprogrammed ones, and somehow convinced people that they've made a breakthrough in AI, voice, speech and facial recognition, several generations away from what's currently possible. It's an interesting concept with the interactivity, and we'll get there eventually, but it's perhaps the greatest bullshot of all time.
To be fair, the press got a private backroom demo of it, and they came away somewhat impressed. It wasn't faked, as you seem to be implying.

I very much disagree that Milo is "several generations away". I think you just don't know the current state of the art for AI.

I'm not saying it's faked per se, just that it was very well scripted. They made it seem as if Milo actually understood the words the actress was saying, as if it could not only recognize, but actually understand true speech. Thats absolutely not possible yet. I'd believe it could distinguish between several people's voices, and perhaps determine broad emotional tones of voice.

Thats the reason it's a backroom demo and not on the show floor - I'm sure they are managing expectations very carefully, and feeding the people that are trying it the proper script.

Today's brief Milo demo introduced a new element: he repeatedly cautioned that some of what I would experience with the game were "tricks."

There was a little awkwardness here. The Milo demo was partially being manipulated by a developer who was sitting nearby, and I couldn't tell if he was merely calibrating the game or how much he was pulling its strings. I said nice things to Milo and the virtual boy smiled. I said I was standing next to Peter Molyneux and he sort of sighed.
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
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IGN gets a hands-on with Burnout Natal.

Here's the amazing thing -- I played with the Natal for all of 5-6 minutes, and I have to say, it actually works.

The first demo I tried was what Microsoft was calling "Burnout Natal." Though it isn't a real game in development, the mixture of Burnout Paradise and the Natal camera was meant to provide proof that you could use the device's technology for practically any genre or software. How quickly I was recognized into the Natal's body identification system (just a few seconds) was surprising, and in a matter of moments I was controlling Burnout paradise with my feet and hands.

Most of the people around me during the MS press conference were groaning when they showed how a racing game would control with Natal in the aforementioned marketing footage, but truth be told, it's a lot more fun than it looks. Though I did miss the bit of resistance that a controller or steering wheel normally gives me, I was shocked to see how natural it felt to drive a car without actually being in one. How easy was it? To accelerate, I simply moved my right leg forward; to brake, I moved it backwards, and to pop it into a neutral position, I just stood straight up (or as straight as my spine would allow me to stand after 12+ hours of E3 spelunking). Driving was just a matter of pretending that I had a steering wheel in my hands, and every subtle movement I made was picked up by the camera allowing me to drive pretty well (and pretty straight) for the few minutes I got to try it out. As an added bonus, the motion for going into Burnout mode was an appropriate Top Gun Volleyball fist-pump. The whole experience was surprisingly fun and I walked away with nary a bad thing to say (which is quite an accomplishment, because normally I complain a lot).

My second go at the Natal was with the game highlighted specifically in Microsoft's press conference by former Fight Night father, Kudo Tsunoda, known as "Ricochet." Admittedly, Ricochet isn't my type of game. I'd rather sit on the couch hitting remote control buttons instead of virtual dodgeballs (which probably explains why I've reached the point where I get winded doing simple things like chewing and talking). Nonetheless, Ricochet provided a small dose of fun as I did my best to break targets with an increasingly-prolific supply of balls. The response here didn't seem as sharp as it did with Burnout -- but to be fair, there did seem to be a small learning curve with the aiming system. Though again, it's not my type of game -- but the good news is that, when speaking with Tsunoda about things in the works down the line, that there are plenty more games -- much more ambitious ones, in fact -- in development that we're going to see in the near future.

All in all, I found Project Natal to be quite refreshing. It's nowhere near the gimmicky device I originally took it for and the fact that it works already on a retail Xbox 360 (Burnout was running on an "out of the store" model, no debugs or special systems required) says a lot about its current stage of development.

To say that I'm anxious to see where Microsoft, and it's horde of third party developers, takes his next is an understatement.
 

erwos

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2005
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Another article:
http://www.eurogamer.net/artic...-natal-hands-on?page=2

Now, what's interesting about that article is that they claim that full body scans take 160ms. If partial scans take less time, it strikes me that, indeed, horrible input lag is probably not going to be an issue inherent in Natal.

Just so you guys understand that I'm not a giant fanboy (the list of consoles in my sig should attest to this anyways), I actually am not entirely sold on this concept of prop-less gaming, so to speak. I do think there is a certain advantage to having a steering wheel or other object in your hands, because, at worst, they provide some support for your arms. Waving your hands for an hour straight has got to get tiring after a while. But, maybe that's really Microsoft's plan - to add to the current peripherals, not just replace them.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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Originally posted by: erwos
. I do think there is a certain advantage to having a steering wheel or other object in your hands, because, at worst, they provide some support for your arms. Waving your hands for an hour straight has got to get tiring after a while. But, maybe that's really Microsoft's plan - to add to the current peripherals, not just replace them.
I agree, I like actual tactile input. But since the camera responds to your body's movements, not controller input, why won't you be able to use the race wheel and pedals you have already, just without having to plug it in? No need to join Wii in accessory hell, just recycle your old gaming guns, flight yoke, etc.

The only problem I can see, is if they block the camera from picking up your movements. But with a slight down angle it should be able to fully see your feet and hands even while on pedals or gripping a wheel, flight stick, etc.

CrackDown 2 woot! Looks like the freaks have been replaced by full blown mutant monsters. Maybe the agency is using them to hunt you down now? Hopefully they have expanded the melee combat somehow. Maybe let you grab then hit? I'll be stoked even if the controls are indentical though.

 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
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Kotaku had a go at Burnout Natal as well. They described it as surprisingly lag free.

My first real introduction to Microsoft's motion-controlling Project Natal occurred in a brightly-lit hotel room in LA's The Standard Hotel.

Standing in front of a television with Burnout Paradise on it, I held my hands out as if holding steering wheel and acted as if I was driving a car. It was that simple and the results were surprisingly precise.

To speed up I moved my foot forward, to slow down I moved my foot back and to kick the car into turbo, I grabbed an imaginary stick shift and acted as if I was pushing it forward.

While the turbo activates fairly easily, the gas controls were the game's weakest link. Essentially the gas was an on and off switch. It was either full speed or stop.

The person demonstrating the game pointed out that it was really just a tech demo to show off the game's potential. He said that because the game wasn't made for the tech, there were some issues.

I drove around a bit of the city using my imaginary steering wheel, weaving between cars with no problem, tearing around sharp corners and deliberately plowing into other vehicles. It felt a bit weird to hold my arms out straight in front of me and pretend to drive, but the results were so lag free, so responsive that it didn't bother me.

To prove there were no tricks behind the tech, the team had the system sitting out completely exposed. Developers had a make-shift sensor sitting on front of a television. Sitting on the floor next to the TV was an Xbox 360 and a second television showing the images the camera was seeing and how it was processing those images.

The screen showed my image as a silhouette of red and orange. A bunch of little boxes marked points on my face and body. In another window my live image was being converted into an animated stick figure, showing me moving around in real time.

All of that was just the system's input, the software took that input and removed lag to make sure that your motions were fed through the system to the game's controls will little to no slow down.

Of course all of that will be happening behind the scenes when Project Natal hits consoles.
 

tdawg

Platinum Member
May 18, 2001
2,215
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Originally posted by: mesthead21
Originally posted by: Queasy
Metal Gear Solid coming to 360. Metal Gear Solid: Rising starring Raiden.

The ps3 has pretty much no exclusives now. The only ones i can think of off the top of my head would be Gran Turismo and maybe killzone/resistance

Uncharted, MLB: The Show, InFamous...
 

tdawg

Platinum Member
May 18, 2001
2,215
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Originally posted by: SunnyD
All I can say about Natal is that it has the potential to rock the world of sports games.

Fight Night Round 5, Baseball, Golf,... I could see this being a lot of fun. I would actually really like a boxing game to use this type of system. A workout and game in one (well, I think it would be fun). :)

I'd even stick those little white ping pong balls on my hands and head to play a realistic boxing game. Probably some on a golf club to play a more realistic golf game (though spin and such would be hard to do, I'd imagine).
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
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Engadget has a post on Project Natal's roots...the Z-Cam. Includes pics of a brochure detailing the tech specs of the camera from as of 2008.

Pretty interesting stuff. Supposedly, the manufacturer/dev was looking to sell the camera for around $100. If MS can bring the camera to market for less than that with some good games bundled with it, it should do pretty well.