E-cigarettes linked to incurable 'Popcorn Lung' disease

[umbrella39]

Thanks for these links. I'm a respiratory therapist who quit my own smoking habit years ago. However, I do have a wife that still smokes and 2 of my kids smoke. My daughter has made the transition to e-cigs. Her cough has intensified exponentially and is always short of breath now. I have tried to convince her that putting ANYTHING into your lungs is not a wise bet. Lung function is going to be compromised. It's just a fact.


So, you won't get lung cancer but you will more than likely develop COPD later in life, be O2 dependent, and only die insidiously like both of my parents did instead of quickly like cancer will take you. I take care of both patient populations and I'm here to tell you that end stage COPD is just as bad as getting a stage IV lung CA diagnosis.


If you want to quit smoking cigarettes and are only going to use e-cig on a very short term basis, then great. But we see far too many who have just switched addictions with no plan on quitting their e-cigs because they are convinced they are safe. More and more studies will be coming out in the near future now that these have been on the market for a little while. Of course there is bad, bad shit in these e-cigs formulas. You might even be better off just smoking the real deal. The jury is still out. For God's sake folks, just quit. You don't want to be o2, BIPAP, or vent dependent trach. Not a fun life.

/soap box

 

[Ruptga]

What’s even more disturbing is that diacetyl was found in a number of e-cigarette flavors that could appeal to children, like “Cotton Candy,” “Fruit Squirts” and “Cupcake.”

OH MY GODS, THINK OF THE CHILDREN



It would be nice if the FDA would do its job though.

Before you roll your eyes you should make sure your scorn is heading in the right direction. Do you have any idea how much the corporate lobbyists have neutered the FDA? You want to get mad? Get mad at the money-before-all-else fuckheads who think the FDA should not be able to close down a meat plant when ecoli has been detected. This is the world they've created.

This is just another issue where the wrong people catch heat for the actions and agenda of the corporations. This isn't "think of the children!" so much as it is "think of the shareholders!"

The FDA does the job it's legally permitted to do, holding them responsible for what they do not control is stupid.

Are you sure your scorn was heading in the right direction? That writer should be slapped for including outrage bait, that should be obvious to everyone with a pulse, as should the target of my eye rolls. In a separate issue, I'm also well aware of how the FDA is the favorite punching bag of very large and powerful lobbies, but it would still be nice if they would do their jobs. They exist to regulate food and drugs for safety and ecig juice is obviously one of those things.

 

[nakedfrog]

Yeah that's what smokers do. Suck it into their mouth and then blow.

hahahaha this shit just writes itself.

But he doesn't smoke... cigarettes.

Thanks for these links. I'm a respiratory therapist who quit my own smoking habit years ago. However, I do have a wife that still smokes and 2 of my kids smoke. My daughter has made the transition to e-cigs. Her cough has intensified exponentially and is always short of breath now. I have tried to convince her that putting ANYTHING into your lungs is not a wise bet. Lung function is going to be compromised. It's just a fact.


So, you won't get lung cancer but you will more than likely develop COPD later in life, be O2 dependent, and only die insidiously like both of my parents did instead of quickly like cancer will take you. I take care of both patient populations and I'm here to tell you that end stage COPD is just as bad as getting a stage IV lung CA diagnosis.


If you want to quit smoking cigarettes and are only going to use e-cig on a very short term basis, then great. But we see far too many who have just switched addictions with no plan on quitting their e-cigs because they are convinced they are safe. More and more studies will be coming out in the near future now that these have been on the market for a little while. Of course there is bad, bad shit in these e-cigs formulas. You might even be better off just smoking the real deal. The jury is still out. For God's sake folks, just quit. You don't want to be o2, BIPAP, or vent dependent trach. Not a fun life.

/soap box

I know an elderly couple that switched to vaping after the husband was diagnosed with COPD, he's doing much better now. Guess YMMV.
And that's just stupid shit you said right there. Did you miss the part where there is MORE diacetyl in cigarettes? A. LOT. MORE.

 

[Ruptga]

If you want to quit smoking cigarettes and are only going to use e-cig on a very short term basis, then great. But we see far too many who have just switched addictions with no plan on quitting their e-cigs because they are convinced they are safe. More and more studies will be coming out in the near future now that these have been on the market for a little while. Of course there is bad, bad shit in these e-cigs formulas. You might even be better off just smoking the real deal. The jury is still out. For God's sake folks, just quit. You don't want to be o2, BIPAP, or vent dependent trach. Not a fun life.

/soap box

Nothing with nicotine will ever awesome for you, but if this stuff was being regulated properly it wouldn't be causing those problems. Instead of preaching abstinence the priority should be applying the standards of safety that we take for granted everywhere else to this new market.

 

[Printer Bandit]

good thing I only vape and don't use e-cigarettes.

 

[umbrella39]

But he doesn't smoke... cigarettes.

I know an elderly couple that switched to vaping after the husband was diagnosed with COPD, he's doing much better now. Guess YMMV.
And that's just stupid shit you said right there. Did you miss the part where there is MORE diacetyl in cigarettes? A. LOT. MORE.

Surely your one off anecdote trumps mine. Thanks for setting me straight! I wasn't speaking of JUST diacetyl btw. We simply don't have enough long term tests and is why I used the word, MIGHT. We are seeing people seek treatment in their early 20's for lung funtion problems who are vaping. We DON'T see this very often in smokers until they are in their 40's.

 

[Ns1]

Surely your one off anecdote trumps mine. Thanks for setting me straight! I wasn't speaking of JUST diacetyl btw. We simply don't have enough long term tests and is why I used the word, MIGHT. We are seeing people seek treatment in their early 20's for lung funtion problems who are vaping. We DON'T see this very often in smokers until they are in their 40's.

Do you see any pure marijuana smokers? Pure meaning MJ only, no tobacco.

 

[skyking]

It does not matter that cigs have more. People vape like fiends out there! Huge clouds of the stuff, because now they don't carry the same smoking stigma. I feared there were long term consequences that were going to crop up. Umbrella, my condolences about your daughter. I hope she gets "it" in time.
I watched both my parents smoke away decades of good quality life. It sucked. It sucked losing my father at age 63.

 

[tHa ShIzNiT]

Do you see any pure marijuana smokers? Pure meaning MJ only, no tobacco.

Good question.

 

[OutHouse]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/comments/36ittn/exhaustive_list_of_capella_flavors_with_zero/

 

[Jaepheth]

Not hard to believe. The stomach can handle things the lungs can't.

Case in point: water

 

[umbrella39]

Do you see any pure marijuana smokers? Pure meaning MJ only, no tobacco.

Yes. But it's hard to say if that affects lung fuction Ns1. The people that run our PFT labs downstairs don't ask questions about MJ before a test.

The only thing I can say is that I have never seen someone get diagnosed with lung cancer only smoking MJ so yes, we see people who only smoked pot (if they are being honest). But does it affect lung function? All I can relate is my own experience. About a year after quitting cigs I bought a volcano vaporizer because I wasn't noticed much improvement in my breathing. After about 3 months vaping only, I noticed a profound difference. Still a lot of coughing in the morning though. I have since quit that as well and feel much better. No more allergies and no more coughing fits.

 

[umbrella39]

It does not matter that cigs have more. People vape like fiends out there! Huge clouds of the stuff, because now they don't carry the same smoking stigma. I feared there were long term consequences that were going to crop up. Umbrella, my condolences about your daughter. I hope she gets "it" in time.
I watched both my parents smoke away decades of good quality life. It sucked. It sucked losing my father at age 63.

This 100%. The deep, long hits that people take on vape pens is different than the drags most smokers take in. I always took very shallow hits when smoking cigs. Thanks for the kind words, I hate seeing people get a disease that they can more than likely avoid for a lifetime by simply putting it down.

 

[Ns1]

thanks for the reply!

 

[ThatsABigOne]

A ban on this fad alongside tobacco products would be great.

 

[Imp]

I thought about smoking the non-nicotine "herbal" cigarettes they do on Mad Men... Ya, turns out lungs don't really like anything other than pure air longer term.

 

[skyking]

The nicotine gum is about the only "safe" thing. I have friends in the UK that can't kick those after quitting smoking.

 

[Charmonium]

This is just another issue where the wrong people catch heat for the actions and agenda of the corporations. This isn't "think of the children!" so much as it is "think of the shareholders!"

Think of the shareholders, fuck the children.

The nicotine gum is about the only "safe" thing. I have friends in the UK that can't kick those after quitting smoking.

Yeah, that's me. Haven't smoked in years but can't get off the gum and lozenges.

 

[sandorski]

Thanks for these links. I'm a respiratory therapist who quit my own smoking habit years ago. However, I do have a wife that still smokes and 2 of my kids smoke. My daughter has made the transition to e-cigs. Her cough has intensified exponentially and is always short of breath now. I have tried to convince her that putting ANYTHING into your lungs is not a wise bet. Lung function is going to be compromised. It's just a fact.


So, you won't get lung cancer but you will more than likely develop COPD later in life, be O2 dependent, and only die insidiously like both of my parents did instead of quickly like cancer will take you. I take care of both patient populations and I'm here to tell you that end stage COPD is just as bad as getting a stage IV lung CA diagnosis.


If you want to quit smoking cigarettes and are only going to use e-cig on a very short term basis, then great. But we see far too many who have just switched addictions with no plan on quitting their e-cigs because they are convinced they are safe. More and more studies will be coming out in the near future now that these have been on the market for a little while. Of course there is bad, bad shit in these e-cigs formulas. You might even be better off just smoking the real deal. The jury is still out. For God's sake folks, just quit. You don't want to be o2, BIPAP, or vent dependent trach. Not a fun life.

/soap box

A few months back I tried Vaping for awhile, but stopped after a few days. Just found it to be really harsh on my throat causing a burning sensation. On top of that, I was perpetually, it seemed, having withdrawal like symptoms, so probably wasn't getting enough Nicotine. In the next couple weeks I'll be on the Patch again at my Bros, I suppose I should really try to stay on it afterwards, it has always been the least uncomfortable method of not smoking for me. However, I seem to always fail at that even. I think I really need a change of venue, as it were, maybe I should try a Hookers and Blow lifestyle.....

 

[lxskllr]

I'm having trouble quantifying the exposure. Recommended limits are given in ppm(presumably combined with natural air), and ecig quantities are given in µg. Is there a way to compare the numbers?

 

[Childs]

Apparently my brand (Halo cigs) tests for this.

https://www.halocigs.com/media/lab_result/subzero-eliquid.pdf

 

[Phoenix86]

I'm not sure anyone being honest with themselves thinks they are safe. However...

Diacetyl exists in higher levels in tobacco-filled cigarettes. Much higher.

This is the point. Safer than cigarettes, by a mile. Most all of the people I know who vape were smokes, myself included. I don't recommend any non-smoker vape.

 

[LevelSea]

https://www.reddit.com/r/science/co...lavorings_found_in_ecigarettes_linked/cxrq6ro

Oh boy, time to crosspost for information's sake.
Even diactyl containing e-juice still contains 100x less diacetyl than traditional cigarettes. [Citation: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/tox.20153/pdf ] And no smoker to date has ever gotten "Popcorn Lung" (Named because it occurs years after dumping pure uncut diactyl into vats and bins when making cheapo microwave popcorn in the factories.)
And despite all that- It's still largely the other factors and chemicals and tar and actual combustion that damages your lungs when smoking is involved. Not diacetyl specifically.
Even 100x the amount of diacetyl as e-juice is apparently not enough to cause the "Popcorn Lung" issue related to the compound specifically. So why would 100x less than the amount that does not cause it suddenly start to cause it? Not that it's 100 percent safe (As mentioned by a replier as well- So I have appended my post some for accuracy and fairness.) Just that it's not the immediate or unavoidable threat it's being presented as.
And in the span of 7+ years even in the heaviest vape users no one has (yet, mind. For the sake of fairness and caution.) reported any major health issues tied to vaping or the compounds contained in e-juice. If the 75ml a day heavy diactyl juice user doesn't get popcorn lung then I highly doubt popcorn lung is a problem to watch for regarding it.
Also there are many many e-juices available without diactyl. So even if it was an issue you can actively avoid it. And most manufacturers have discontinued it's use or clearely state if their juices are diacetyl free so the risk factors that are purely tied to diacetyl are avoidable and preventable.
As far as being paranoid about what's put in it- This is purely my opinion but, I think that is razorblades in your kid's halloween candy or "Shadey people handing out drugs for free/Lacing your kid's flintstones vitamins with PCP" levels of unfounded overconcern.
Caution is important- But so is research and fact checking.
Edit: To append this to- I am not defending the use or previous use of the substance, merely dispelling the immediate "Popcorn Lung" panic around it. I personally don't use e-juice containing it for the sake of risk reduction in general as I like to limit as many potential factors as possible in general. And there are hundreds- if not thousands of brands and types which do not contain diacetyl to choose from which I would recommend.
I am also not claiming vaping is 100 percent safe- Just that this instance is an avoidable factor and has been for a while.
Personal safety and active research should always be practiced in all facets of life.

 

[MongGrel]

I'm not sure anyone being honest with themselves thinks they are safe. However...



This is the point. Safer than cigarettes, by a mile. Most all of the people I know who vape were smokes, myself included. I don't recommend any non-smoker vape.

+1

This issue was all ready raised way before now, not going to get in to it again myself.

 

[Joepublic2]

Thanks for these links. I'm a respiratory therapist who quit my own smoking habit years ago. However, I do have a wife that still smokes and 2 of my kids smoke. My daughter has made the transition to e-cigs. Her cough has intensified exponentially and is always short of breath now. I have tried to convince her that putting ANYTHING into your lungs is not a wise bet. Lung function is going to be compromised. It's just a fact.

Glad you were able to stop and hope all you guys are able to sooner rather than later. How much did she smoke before she transitioned to e-cigs and how much does she vape now? I ask because this is pretty much the exact opposite of my and most other people's experiences with e-cigs. It's possible that she's allergic one of those components and that could be causing problems with her breathing. If my vaporizer caused me breathing problems I'd definitely stop using it, but I've noticed a huge improvement with my breathing, and I really like my nicotine. I've been experimenting with making my own transdermal patches with good results but I'm a process chemist so I wouldn't expect your average person to do as much without an explosion of cases of nicotine poisoning, and even the cheapest store bought patches are still quite expensive compared to vaping. Nicotine gums can be effective but they're also relatively expensive and cause mucosal inflammation in a lot of people (me included).

So, you won't get lung cancer but you will more than likely develop COPD later in life, be O2 dependent, and only die insidiously like both of my parents did instead of quickly like cancer will take you. I take care of both patient populations and I'm here to tell you that end stage COPD is just as bad as getting a stage IV lung CA diagnosis.


If you want to quit smoking cigarettes and are only going to use e-cig on a very short term basis, then great. But we see far too many who have just switched addictions with no plan on quitting their e-cigs because they are convinced they are safe. More and more studies will be coming out in the near future now that these have been on the market for a little while. Of course there is bad, bad shit in these e-cigs formulas. You might even be better off just smoking the real deal. The jury is still out. For God's sake folks, just quit. You don't want to be o2, BIPAP, or vent dependent trach. Not a fun life.

/soap box

Yeah COPD is horrible. Most of these e-cig juices are just different proportions of (hopefully food grade) polypropylene glycol and vegetable glycerol mixed with small amounts of artificial flavors/odors and of course nicotine. The whole shebang is vaporized rather than combusted so I can't see how you'd be better off smoking as opposed to vaping.

I do think they should be required to list ingredients and their proportions on the juice labels, use at least food grade ingredients and have a disclaimer that breathing anything but air is a bad idea. Hardly an arduous requirement IMO. I really don't want to see legislation that bans them or introduces such steep regulatory requirements that only the biggest players are able to comply, though.