E-cigarettes linked to incurable 'Popcorn Lung' disease

[funboy6942]

I dont smoke at all any more

 

[LevelSea]

Don't mind him, he's opinionated and... eccentric.

He's the resident village idiot.

 

[nakedfrog]

Idiots will continue to be idiots and deny there is anything wrong with smoking e-cigs....

If you're incapable of seeing the difference between me saying "e-cigs are 100% perfectly safe" and "diacetyl exists in higher levels in tobacco cigarettes", I'm reasonably certain that makes you the idiot. I haven't said and I won't say vaping is completely harmless. What I will say is that it's safer than smoking tobacco.

 

[nakedfrog]

Surely your one off anecdote trumps mine. Thanks for setting me straight! I wasn't speaking of JUST diacetyl btw. We simply don't have enough long term tests and is why I used the word, MIGHT. We are seeing people seek treatment in their early 20's for lung funtion problems who are vaping. We DON'T see this very often in smokers until they are in their 40's.

The thing you said that bothered me most was this:

Of course there is bad, bad shit in these e-cigs formulas. You might even be better off just smoking the real deal.

The smugness with which you boldly state that "OF COURSE" there is "BAD BAD SHIT" in the formulas is just really obnoxious.

 

[umbrella39]

The thing you said that bothered me most was this:

The smugness with which you boldly state that "OF COURSE" there is "BAD BAD SHIT" in the formulas is just really obnoxious.

OK, you are right. There is nothing of any concern in that smoke inhaled... Carry on.

 

[nakedfrog]

OK, you are right. There is nothing of any concern in that smoke inhaled... Carry on.

Are you being a dick or a dipshit? Is there zero middle ground between "it's all perfectly safe" and "this is 100% GOING to kill you"? I'm pretty sure there is.
Allow me to clarify, just in case you're falling on the "dipshit" side of the spectrum today: I AM NOT SAYING IT IS PERFECTLY SAFE.

 

[WelshBloke]

Christ dude, why do you smoke at all?

Scenario at work the other week.


Guy 1 and Guy 2 are sharing a ward and have built up a rapport. Both of them smoke and nip off the ward at regular intervals for a smoke.

This one day Guy 1 is all arsey because I wont let him go out.

Guy 1 had just had an angioplasty to try to save his foot because of his Peripheral Arterial Disease due to his history of smoking and we keep people on bedrest after an angio.

Guy 2 was in a wheelchair after having an above knee amputation and a forefoot amputation due to Peripheral Arterial Disease.

Guy 2 went out without him.

Guy 1 went out later against our advice.



In short, smokers gonna smoke. Even if you chop bits of them because they do.

 

[SMOGZINN]

OK, you are right. There is nothing of any concern in that smoke inhaled... Carry on.

You see, you say shit like this and it makes the rest of wonder if you even know what you are talking about. It is not smoke. It is not combusted. It is mostly water vapor. Vaping is more similar to an albuterol inhaler then a cigarette.

 

[skyking]

Scenario at work the other week.


Guy 1 and Guy 2 are sharing a ward and have built up a rapport. Both of them smoke and nip off the ward at regular intervals for a smoke.

This one day Guy 1 is all arsey because I wont let him go out.

Guy 1 had just had an angioplasty to try to save his foot because of his Peripheral Arterial Disease due to his history of smoking and we keep people on bedrest after an angio.

Guy 2 was in a wheelchair after having an above knee amputation and a forefoot amputation due to Peripheral Arterial Disease.

Guy 2 went out without him.

Guy 1 went out later against our advice.



In short, smokers gonna smoke. Even if you chop bits of them because they do.

That PAD is a bastard. A version of the same thing hardened my mom's intestines so that she was in constant gut pain. Not a damn thing to do. another symptom were ischemic episodes of s sort where she'd pass out and wake up later, often nauseous and possibly having thrown up while passed out. Great little setup for aspiration. It was often a positional thing. She loved to garden and had the physical stamina to do so, but having passed out in the yard a few times she was no longer able to do that. This confined her to the house and activities where she felt secure.
It wrecked her quality of life for her last 14 years.

 

[JM Aggie08]

You see, you say shit like this and it makes the rest of wonder if you even know what you are talking about. It is not smoke. It is not combusted. It is mostly water vapor. Vaping is more similar to an albuterol inhaler then a cigarette.

I'm convinced we have a Stage 3 (not developed enough or believable to be any higher) Troll on our hands. No point in trying to reason with it.

 

[Joepublic2]

You see, you say shit like this and it makes the rest of wonder if you even know what you are talking about. It is not smoke. It is not combusted. It is mostly water vapor. Vaping is more similar to an albuterol inhaler then a cigarette.

You're both wrong. It's mainly propylene glycol and glycerol (two very benign chemicals on the GRAS list), and while there's not a great deal of combustion and all the gnarly side reactions/tar/etc. that go along with it there is still probably a very small amount of combustion; those heating elements get very hot. How much I really can't say without some actual tests of real devices. The juices definitely need to be regulated, though; I'm surprised there haven't been more cases of nicotine poisoning or somebody buying a big batch of cheap PG from china mislabeled/contaminated with diethylene glycol:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylene_glycol

The physical properties of diethylene glycol make it an excellent counterfeit for pharmaceutical-grade glycerine (also called glycerol) or propylene glycol, and has caused many deaths in different countries. It was also used by China as a component of cheap toothpaste and winemakers as an adulterant to create a "sweet" wine.[14][15]

 

[WelshBloke]

That PAD is a bastard. A version of the same thing hardened my mom's intestines so that she was in constant gut pain. Not a damn thing to do. another symptom were ischemic episodes of s sort where she'd pass out and wake up later, often nauseous and possibly having thrown up while passed out. Great little setup for aspiration. It was often a positional thing. She loved to garden and had the physical stamina to do so, but having passed out in the yard a few times she was no longer able to do that. This confined her to the house and activities where she felt secure.
It wrecked her quality of life for her last 14 years.

We always bang on about COPD and cancer WRT smoking but, personally, I think the effects of PAD/PVD is never mentioned (not suggesting that your mums was due to smoking) and that they would have a much bigger effect on people not taking up smoking.

 

[skyking]

Oh we know it was due to smoking. She just could not quit. She developed COPD and was dead within 10 days, but the 14 years before that sucked.

 

[OverVolt]

Its so incredibly dumb to put diacetyl flavoring into an inhaled product.

And thats what happens when some guy who started the business out of his garage who took highschool chemistry in 1970 gets into the flavor chemistry business.

The other issue is you guys might be inhaling large amounts of polypropylene glycol.

(Well not might... you are)

The famous case that brought the health issues with diacetyl to light was a guy who made 2 bags of microwave popcorn a day and always liked to smell the bag when he opened it. Most major companies have moved to reduce diacetyl content but of course e-cigs are typically sold by small outfits who don't know any better. Particularly because you inhale it. So dumb.

It was a known issue because workers in a microwave popcorn factory wear respirators and such. Anything that is "buttery" or "smooth" flavored has diacetly including some beers.

 

[umbrella39]

You see, you say shit like this and it makes the rest of wonder if you even know what you are talking about. It is not smoke. It is not combusted. It is mostly water vapor. Vaping is more similar to an albuterol inhaler then a cigarette.

Yeah. You're right. Albuterol and the stuff you inhale in an e-cigarette are virtually identical! Enjoy your bronchodilation.

 

[Phoenix86]

You see, you say shit like this and it makes the rest of wonder if you even know what you are talking about. It is not smoke. It is not combusted. It is mostly water vapor. Vaping is more similar to an albuterol inhaler then a cigarette.

Stop saying that shit. There's 0 water in the vapor, and you're no better than all these idiots demonizing vaping by running the atomizers at 10X power and producing formaldehyde.

 

[Phoenix86]

Are you being a dick or a dipshit? Is there zero middle ground between "it's all perfectly safe" and "this is 100% GOING to kill you"? I'm pretty sure there is.
Allow me to clarify, just in case you're falling on the "dipshit" side of the spectrum today: I AM NOT SAYING IT IS PERFECTLY SAFE.

Yeah, I don't get it. Everything has to be in absolutes.

There's so few things in life that you can apply that kind of thinking to. People naturally assume if you say something is wrong, you must be 100% for the opposite. It infuriates me to no end.

 

[SearchMaster]

Can someone explain something to a layman such as myself? I've never smoked and never wanted to (my parents' chain smoking ensured that).

Is there a "real" difference between e-cigs and vaping? My wife's brother does e-cigs and she sent him this article, his response was "yeah vaping is stupid but I use e-cigs which don't have this problem". Now I have zero doubt that e-cigs are safer than tobacco cigarettes and I can at least tolerate being in the same room as someone using e-cigs, but is there a discernible difference in the safety of the two or do both use diacetyl?

 

[BlitzPuppet]

I just follow one rule, Don't inhale shit into your lungs purposefully with stuff that shouldn't be there.

I know some will argue pollution and asbestos etc etc...but no one goes around inhaling asbestos on purpose or is sucking car exhaust unless they're intending to die.

 

[CraKaJaX]

Whoever came up with 'Fruit Squirts' should be strapped to a gurney and pushed off a very high cliff.

 

[BlitzPuppet]

Fruit Squirts

I hate when that happens D:

 

[nakedfrog]

Can someone explain something to a layman such as myself? I've never smoked and never wanted to (my parents' chain smoking ensured that).

Is there a "real" difference between e-cigs and vaping? My wife's brother does e-cigs and she sent him this article, his response was "yeah vaping is stupid but I use e-cigs which don't have this problem". Now I have zero doubt that e-cigs are safer than tobacco cigarettes and I can at least tolerate being in the same room as someone using e-cigs, but is there a discernible difference in the safety of the two or do both use diacetyl?

An "e-cig" is just a specific form factor of "personal vaporizer"/vape. His response indicates a clear lack of education on the subject. It all comes down to whether his e-cig flavor has diacetyl as a component.

 

[Phoenix86]

Can someone explain something to a layman such as myself? I've never smoked and never wanted to (my parents' chain smoking ensured that).

Is there a "real" difference between e-cigs and vaping? My wife's brother does e-cigs and she sent him this article, his response was "yeah vaping is stupid but I use e-cigs which don't have this problem". Now I have zero doubt that e-cigs are safer than tobacco cigarettes and I can at least tolerate being in the same room as someone using e-cigs, but is there a discernible difference in the safety of the two or do both use diacetyl?

There is no difference between e-cigs and vaping. There are many different models which take various shapes, have various power output, storage and slightly different methods for creating the vapor. All vaporize a liquid, which is inhaled.

Your wife's brother is ignorant. He's likely confusing smaller cigarette shaped devices as e-cigs and larger setups as vaporizers.

The type of liquid determines if there is diacetyl. Even the ones that contain it are significantly lower than real cigarettes, which still don't cause popcorn lung disease.

 

[Childs]

There is no difference between e-cigs and vaping. There are many different models which take various shapes, have various power output, storage and slightly different methods for creating the vapor. All vaporize a liquid, which is inhaled.

Your wife's brother is ignorant. He's likely confusing smaller cigarette shaped devices as e-cigs and larger setups as vaporizers.

The type of liquid determines if there is diacetyl. Even the ones that contain it are significantly lower than real cigarettes, which still don't cause popcorn lung disease.

There are loose leaf vaporizers that you can use with tobacco and weed, which might be what he is thinking of, although that is generally thought of as better than burning the leaves because it removes the impurities associated with combustion.

 

[Phoenix86]

There are loose leaf vaporizers that you can use with tobacco and weed, which might be what he is thinking of, although that is generally thought of as better than burning the leaves because it removes the impurities associated with combustion.

Yeah, but an e-cig is still a vaporizer. Since his wife's brother thinks his e-cig isn't a vaporizer he's almost certainly referring to the more common larger battery/tank vaporizers.