Dullard's College Football - Week 8, 2006

[kalster]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Who said anything about crippled?

I'd prefer to not have words put into my mouth. Thanks

You did say "severely underperform". Pretty close to claiming crippled. All I'm saying is that if any team can absorb injuries, especially at skill positions, it's USC. That and the fact that they have done this before leads me to believe that the injuries have little to nothing to do with their close games this year.

yeh, it also had a lot todo with loosing 2 heisman winners and another workhorse, anyway like you said they have been recruiting quite well over the years and should be able to deal with injuries

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: Thraxen

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Who said anything about crippled?

I'd prefer to not have words put into my mouth. Thanks

You did say "severely underperform". Pretty close to claiming crippled. All I'm saying is that if any team can absorb injuries, especially at skill positions, it's USC. That and the fact that they have done this before leads me to believe that the injuries have little to nothing to do with their close games this year.

I'm sure they can absorb injuries better than others.

However, you'd have to not understand logic to believe that they wouldn't perform as well as they could if two starters were healthy rather than injured

 

[sciencewhiz]

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Auburn runs and USC throws. Arkansas played horrbily and gave USC 31 points off turn overs (USC had very short fields). Arkansas had 0 turn overs against Auburn. Arkansas' stud running back wasn't even supposed to play that game, he was still recovering from foot surgery. Arkansas' starting QB from last season was out with a back injury and they didn't want to put their true freshman QB into that type of game. Arkansas has a new offensive coordinator who was coaching HS last year... first big game, don't ya think? And, yes, Arkansas' secondary is definitely a weak point.

Funny. USC didn't seem to have any problem running against Arkansas (192 yards). They also averaged 4.6 yards per rush to Auburns 1.9. And that was with a true freshman starting at RB, who's now 3rd string.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: JohnCU
everyone else is calling us the best 1 loss team in the nation and we're #17 in your poll? just wait til we blow VA tech out of the way thursday night.

Correction, everyone is saying Auburn/Florida is the best 1 loss team - and you can't exactly penalize Texas and Notre Dame for their only losses to the current #1 and #2 teams respectively...

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: kalster

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: kalster
did u not read the part where i said with a first year starting qb, experienced receivers are key?

Why stop there? Coaches are the key, an experienced RB is key, an experienced TE is key, experienced O.Linemen are key. See how silly it sounds now? Again, WR's do not make or a break a game unless they're Heisman hopefuls. See Desmond Howard, Larry Fitzgerald (from Pitt a couple years back), or Calvin Johnson. Noone on USC has that ability so don't use WR's as an excuse.

so your argument is that wvu is better than usc because they beat their opponents with a combined loosing record (20-32) convincingly where as usc (with injuries) beat 2 top 20 teams and while struggled against other teams (all but arizona have winning record btw),


makes a lot of sense

This is what happens when a school without a real winning tradition has a good couple seasons...the fans get stupid.

Yup.

 

[AccruedExpenditure]

lol, there are people who have negative scores. HA

 

[alexjohnson16]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: JohnCU
everyone else is calling us the best 1 loss team in the nation and we're #17 in your poll? just wait til we blow VA tech out of the way thursday night.

Correction, everyone is saying Auburn/Florida is the best 1 loss team - and you can't exactly penalize Texas and Notre Dame for their only losses to the current #1 and #2 teams respectively...

I hate Florida, but they lost by a slim margin on the road at Auburn.

Texas and ND were both lit up on their home fields by OSU/Mich.

Texas should've lost this weekend at Nebraska, and I think they'll lose to the Huskers if they meet up again in the Big XII championship.

I don't think you can say there's a 'best' one-loss team in America right now, because of the parity (AU beats UF at home, yet loses to Arkansas at home by 17).

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: alexjohnson16

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: JohnCU
everyone else is calling us the best 1 loss team in the nation and we're #17 in your poll? just wait til we blow VA tech out of the way thursday night.

Correction, everyone is saying Auburn/Florida is the best 1 loss team - and you can't exactly penalize Texas and Notre Dame for their only losses to the current #1 and #2 teams respectively...

I hate Florida, but they lost by a slim margin on the road at Auburn.

Texas and ND were both lit up on their home fields by OSU/Mich.

Texas should've lost this weekend at Nebraska, and I think they'll lose to the Huskers if they meet up again in the Big XII championship.

I don't think you can say there's a 'best' one-loss team in America right now, because of the parity (AU beats UF at home, yet loses to Arkansas at home by 17).

I don't think you can say there is a best one loss team either (which is why I said Auburn/Florida). But there are many reasons why Clemson isn't placed above the 4 teams I mentioned in this poll and just about ever other poll out there. Heck, even Tennessee is above Clemson in most all other polls. I guess I was just responding to an overly biased fan. The ACC doesn't look all that hot this year which is another reason Clemson isn't ranked higher.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Feldenak

IIRC, Iowa was decimated by injuries for that game.

Do you follow college football in general or just WVU?

Name EXACTLY who was injured aside from Tate. Ever heard the saying, one man a team does not make? They had Sims and Young, their starting backs. They had their best receiver (TE Chandler). To have to use a goal line stand versus SYRACUSE in 2OT is absolutely pathetic, and the notion that you would even blame the game on "injuries" is hilarious. The B Team should have trounced Syracuse, they are the whipping boy of the Big East. Iowa is overrated and WVU would absolutely destroy them at Mountaineer Field. Hell, Iowa lost to freaking INDIANA who is ranked even lower than SYRACUSE on Dullard's list (61 vs 67). Now I have to ask, do you follow college football in general or just Iowa?

I like how u conveniently pound on Iowa and ignore all the posts concerning UM vs WVU.

Seriously what your opinion of WVU vs UM.

Cuz I have a hunch that if UM stops the running game of WVU, well ballgames over.

Seriously, it would be a very entertaining game because it would be two juggernauts colliding: WVU's high powered run vs Michigan's very good run D. It's hard to say who would win. However, I think Pat White would create big problems for them because Michigan hasn't faced a Micheal Vick type guy who is a rushing first QB and can pass on the run with success as well. He has a very high completion %, although he is young and will throw some INTs if the coverage is right. On the flipside, I think WVU would have trouble stopping Hart since Run D is their weakness and pass D more their strength.

Um....yes Michigan has faced a Mike Vick type QB, they've played Troy Smith couple years running. Granted they have a hard time stopping him, but Pat White is nowhere NEAR the level of skill/experience as Smith. However here is the thing, I dont have many doubts that UM would stop Slaton, which makes the game one sided which put the onus to perform on the QB. At that point, White really isnt the greatest QB.

EDIT: looking over offensive stats, WVU is a very one sided team. They run the ball.

For WVU
White has 822yards, 6TDs, 5INTs and 68.8comp pct
Slaton has 1117 yards and 9 TDs rushing
White has 640 yards and 9 TDs rushing

For UM
Henne has 1502 yards, 14TDs, 5INTs, 61.5 comp pct
Hart has 1057 yards and 8 TD rushing

First off, Troy Smith is absolutely NOT a Vick type QB, he has 126 yards rushing total on the year (3.5 per carry) vs Pat White's 640 (8.5 per carry over 73 tries) and White holds the top 2 highest single game rushing records in the Big East over the likes of Vick (3rd) and McNabb. Does Troy Smith hold the top 2 single game rushing records for the Big Ten (lol)? Troy Smith is NOT a rush first, pass second QB. So no, Michigan has not faced a QB like Vick yet. Troy Smith is a pass first QB and White is a rush first QB.

Second, you listed TD's like that means something. Yet you forgot to list the third piece of the 3 headed monster, fullback Owen Schmitt who WVU loves to go to in goal line situations over Slaton since defenses focus on Steve. Look at Schmitt's stats: 5 TD's, 181 yards and a 4.8 per carry. If you watched the Sugar Bowl you saw his 54 yard run carrying a defender on his back vs the vaunted UGA defense. Schmitt is pretty much a guarantee in short yardage situations.

Last, you list Hart's stats but forgot to list his yards per carry: uh, 4.8 vs Slaton's 7.0. There's a reason why Hart is behind Slaton in Heisman voting.

Overall, WVU has roughly 1,940 yards of rushing over 7 games among the 3 headed monster, 275 yards per game and 1st in the nation. That's why Michigan's very good run D vs WVU would be like two juggernauts colliding, it would be pretty cool but unlikely if they played in a Bowl game.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Feldenak

IIRC, Iowa was decimated by injuries for that game.

Do you follow college football in general or just WVU?

Name EXACTLY who was injured aside from Tate. Ever heard the saying, one man a team does not make? They had Sims and Young, their starting backs. They had their best receiver (TE Chandler). To have to use a goal line stand versus SYRACUSE in 2OT is absolutely pathetic, and the notion that you would even blame the game on "injuries" is hilarious. The B Team should have trounced Syracuse, they are the whipping boy of the Big East. Iowa is overrated and WVU would absolutely destroy them at Mountaineer Field. Hell, Iowa lost to freaking INDIANA who is ranked even lower than SYRACUSE on Dullard's list (61 vs 67). Now I have to ask, do you follow college football in general or just Iowa?

I like how u conveniently pound on Iowa and ignore all the posts concerning UM vs WVU.

Seriously what your opinion of WVU vs UM.

Cuz I have a hunch that if UM stops the running game of WVU, well ballgames over.

Seriously, it would be a very entertaining game because it would be two juggernauts colliding: WVU's high powered run vs Michigan's very good run D. It's hard to say who would win. However, I think Pat White would create big problems for them because Michigan hasn't faced a Micheal Vick type guy who is a rushing first QB and can pass on the run with success as well. He has a very high completion %, although he is young and will throw some INTs if the coverage is right. On the flipside, I think WVU would have trouble stopping Hart since Run D is their weakness and pass D more their strength.

Um....yes Michigan has faced a Mike Vick type QB, they've played Troy Smith couple years running. Granted they have a hard time stopping him, but Pat White is nowhere NEAR the level of skill/experience as Smith. However here is the thing, I dont have many doubts that UM would stop Slaton, which makes the game one sided which put the onus to perform on the QB. At that point, White really isnt the greatest QB.

EDIT: looking over offensive stats, WVU is a very one sided team. They run the ball.

For WVU
White has 822yards, 6TDs, 5INTs and 68.8comp pct
Slaton has 1117 yards and 9 TDs rushing
White has 640 yards and 9 TDs rushing

For UM
Henne has 1502 yards, 14TDs, 5INTs, 61.5 comp pct
Hart has 1057 yards and 8 TD rushing

First off, Troy Smith is absolutely NOT a Vick type QB, he has 126 yards rushing total on the year (3.5 per carry) vs Pat White's 640 (8.5 per carry over 73 tries) and White holds the top 2 highest single game rushing records in the Big East over the likes of Vick (3rd) and McNabb. Does Troy Smith hold the top 2 single game rushing records for the Big Ten (lol)? Troy Smith is NOT a rush first, pass second QB. So no, Michigan has not faced a QB like Vick yet. Troy Smith is a pass first QB and White is a rush first QB.

Second, you listed TD's like that means something. Yet you forgot to list the third piece of the 3 headed monster, fullback Owen Schmitt who WVU loves to go to in goal line situations over Slaton since defenses focus on Steve. Look at Schmitt's stats: 5 TD's, 181 yards and a 4.8 per carry. If you watched the Sugar Bowl you saw his 54 yard run carrying a defender on his back vs the vaunted UGA defense. Schmitt is pretty much a guarantee in short yardage situations.

Last, you list Hart's stats but forgot to list his yards per carry: uh, 4.8 vs Slaton's 7.0. There's a reason why Hart is behind Slaton in Heisman voting.

Overall, WVU has roughly 1,940 yards of rushing over 7 games among the 3 headed monster, 275 yards per game and 1st in the nation. That's why Michigan's very good run D vs WVU would be like two juggernauts colliding, it would be pretty cool but unlikely if they played in a Bowl game.

Thank you for proving my point....you don't follow college football in general, just WVU. In previous years Troy Smith was very much a running QB. The reasons he's not running wild this year is because he's playing within the system and he's trying to improve his draft stock.

Troy's rushing numbers for last season:
136 attempts for 722 yards and 11 TDs.

Troy's rushing numbers last year against Michigan:

11 attempts for 37 yards and 1 TD

Troy Smith can obviously run the football, he's proven that. This year he's proving he can be an elusive QB and still make accurate throws downfield.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Feldenak

IIRC, Iowa was decimated by injuries for that game.

Do you follow college football in general or just WVU?

Name EXACTLY who was injured aside from Tate. Ever heard the saying, one man a team does not make? They had Sims and Young, their starting backs. They had their best receiver (TE Chandler). To have to use a goal line stand versus SYRACUSE in 2OT is absolutely pathetic, and the notion that you would even blame the game on "injuries" is hilarious. The B Team should have trounced Syracuse, they are the whipping boy of the Big East. Iowa is overrated and WVU would absolutely destroy them at Mountaineer Field. Hell, Iowa lost to freaking INDIANA who is ranked even lower than SYRACUSE on Dullard's list (61 vs 67). Now I have to ask, do you follow college football in general or just Iowa?

I like how u conveniently pound on Iowa and ignore all the posts concerning UM vs WVU.

Seriously what your opinion of WVU vs UM.

Cuz I have a hunch that if UM stops the running game of WVU, well ballgames over.

Seriously, it would be a very entertaining game because it would be two juggernauts colliding: WVU's high powered run vs Michigan's very good run D. It's hard to say who would win. However, I think Pat White would create big problems for them because Michigan hasn't faced a Micheal Vick type guy who is a rushing first QB and can pass on the run with success as well. He has a very high completion %, although he is young and will throw some INTs if the coverage is right. On the flipside, I think WVU would have trouble stopping Hart since Run D is their weakness and pass D more their strength.

Um....yes Michigan has faced a Mike Vick type QB, they've played Troy Smith couple years running. Granted they have a hard time stopping him, but Pat White is nowhere NEAR the level of skill/experience as Smith. However here is the thing, I dont have many doubts that UM would stop Slaton, which makes the game one sided which put the onus to perform on the QB. At that point, White really isnt the greatest QB.

EDIT: looking over offensive stats, WVU is a very one sided team. They run the ball.

For WVU
White has 822yards, 6TDs, 5INTs and 68.8comp pct
Slaton has 1117 yards and 9 TDs rushing
White has 640 yards and 9 TDs rushing

For UM
Henne has 1502 yards, 14TDs, 5INTs, 61.5 comp pct
Hart has 1057 yards and 8 TD rushing

First off, Troy Smith is absolutely NOT a Vick type QB, he has 126 yards rushing total on the year (3.5 per carry) vs Pat White's 640 (8.5 per carry over 73 tries) and White holds the top 2 highest single game rushing records in the Big East over the likes of Vick (3rd) and McNabb. Does Troy Smith hold the top 2 single game rushing records for the Big Ten (lol)? Troy Smith is NOT a rush first, pass second QB. So no, Michigan has not faced a QB like Vick yet. Troy Smith is a pass first QB and White is a rush first QB.

Second, you listed TD's like that means something. Yet you forgot to list the third piece of the 3 headed monster, fullback Owen Schmitt who WVU loves to go to in goal line situations over Slaton since defenses focus on Steve. Look at Schmitt's stats: 5 TD's, 181 yards and a 4.8 per carry. If you watched the Sugar Bowl you saw his 54 yard run carrying a defender on his back vs the vaunted UGA defense. Schmitt is pretty much a guarantee in short yardage situations.

Last, you list Hart's stats but forgot to list his yards per carry: uh, 4.8 vs Slaton's 7.0. There's a reason why Hart is behind Slaton in Heisman voting.

Overall, WVU has roughly 1,940 yards of rushing over 7 games among the 3 headed monster, 275 yards per game and 1st in the nation. That's why Michigan's very good run D vs WVU would be like two juggernauts colliding, it would be pretty cool but unlikely if they played in a Bowl game.

Thank you for proving my point....you don't follow college football in general, just WVU. In previous years Troy Smith was very much a running QB. The reasons he's not running wild this year is because he's playing within the system and he's trying to improve his draft stock.

Troy's rushing numbers for last season:
136 attempts for 722 yards and 11 TDs.

Troy's rushing numbers last year against Michigan:

11 attempts for 37 yards and 1 TD

Troy Smith can obviously run the football, he's proven that. This year he's proving he can be an elusive QB and still make accurate throws downfield.

He's still not a rush first QB, again, what Big Ten rushing records does he hold? White runs a 4.42 40 (WR speed), Smith a 4.74. Smith simply doesn't have White's breakaway speed: the longest 3 runs in Smith's career are 46, 34, and 29 yards. White in just 1.5 seasons has runs of 76, 69, and 47 yards and broke Vick's Big East single game rushing record twice. An example of this was when Smith had negative 13 yards rushing vs Texas on 7 tries, defenses that key (or look to contain him) on Smith will stop him because his supporting cast isn't like WVU's.

White also only played half the season last year and had better rushing stats than Smith did for the whole season: 131 rushes for 952 yards. No, Troy Smith cannot compare to White on the ground. Which gets back to my point, if Michigan totally focuses on Slaton then White or Schmitt will burn them. Michigan has not faced a juggernaut rushing team like WVU and Troy Smith certainly doesn't have the rushing skill of Pat White (although he's an absolute beast in the air). Yes, Smith can scramble i.e. like a McNabb to create smart passing opps which is why he will probably win the Heisman. No, Michigan has not faced a fast Vick-like QB yet.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Feldenak

IIRC, Iowa was decimated by injuries for that game.

Do you follow college football in general or just WVU?

Name EXACTLY who was injured aside from Tate. Ever heard the saying, one man a team does not make? They had Sims and Young, their starting backs. They had their best receiver (TE Chandler). To have to use a goal line stand versus SYRACUSE in 2OT is absolutely pathetic, and the notion that you would even blame the game on "injuries" is hilarious. The B Team should have trounced Syracuse, they are the whipping boy of the Big East. Iowa is overrated and WVU would absolutely destroy them at Mountaineer Field. Hell, Iowa lost to freaking INDIANA who is ranked even lower than SYRACUSE on Dullard's list (61 vs 67). Now I have to ask, do you follow college football in general or just Iowa?

I like how u conveniently pound on Iowa and ignore all the posts concerning UM vs WVU.

Seriously what your opinion of WVU vs UM.

Cuz I have a hunch that if UM stops the running game of WVU, well ballgames over.

Seriously, it would be a very entertaining game because it would be two juggernauts colliding: WVU's high powered run vs Michigan's very good run D. It's hard to say who would win. However, I think Pat White would create big problems for them because Michigan hasn't faced a Micheal Vick type guy who is a rushing first QB and can pass on the run with success as well. He has a very high completion %, although he is young and will throw some INTs if the coverage is right. On the flipside, I think WVU would have trouble stopping Hart since Run D is their weakness and pass D more their strength.

Um....yes Michigan has faced a Mike Vick type QB, they've played Troy Smith couple years running. Granted they have a hard time stopping him, but Pat White is nowhere NEAR the level of skill/experience as Smith. However here is the thing, I dont have many doubts that UM would stop Slaton, which makes the game one sided which put the onus to perform on the QB. At that point, White really isnt the greatest QB.

EDIT: looking over offensive stats, WVU is a very one sided team. They run the ball.

For WVU
White has 822yards, 6TDs, 5INTs and 68.8comp pct
Slaton has 1117 yards and 9 TDs rushing
White has 640 yards and 9 TDs rushing

For UM
Henne has 1502 yards, 14TDs, 5INTs, 61.5 comp pct
Hart has 1057 yards and 8 TD rushing

First off, Troy Smith is absolutely NOT a Vick type QB, he has 126 yards rushing total on the year (3.5 per carry) vs Pat White's 640 (8.5 per carry over 73 tries) and White holds the top 2 highest single game rushing records in the Big East over the likes of Vick (3rd) and McNabb. Does Troy Smith hold the top 2 single game rushing records for the Big Ten (lol)? Troy Smith is NOT a rush first, pass second QB. So no, Michigan has not faced a QB like Vick yet. Troy Smith is a pass first QB and White is a rush first QB.

Second, you listed TD's like that means something. Yet you forgot to list the third piece of the 3 headed monster, fullback Owen Schmitt who WVU loves to go to in goal line situations over Slaton since defenses focus on Steve. Look at Schmitt's stats: 5 TD's, 181 yards and a 4.8 per carry. If you watched the Sugar Bowl you saw his 54 yard run carrying a defender on his back vs the vaunted UGA defense. Schmitt is pretty much a guarantee in short yardage situations.

Last, you list Hart's stats but forgot to list his yards per carry: uh, 4.8 vs Slaton's 7.0. There's a reason why Hart is behind Slaton in Heisman voting.

Overall, WVU has roughly 1,940 yards of rushing over 7 games among the 3 headed monster, 275 yards per game and 1st in the nation. That's why Michigan's very good run D vs WVU would be like two juggernauts colliding, it would be pretty cool but unlikely if they played in a Bowl game.

Thank you for proving my point....you don't follow college football in general, just WVU. In previous years Troy Smith was very much a running QB. The reasons he's not running wild this year is because he's playing within the system and he's trying to improve his draft stock.

Troy's rushing numbers for last season:
136 attempts for 722 yards and 11 TDs.

Troy's rushing numbers last year against Michigan:

11 attempts for 37 yards and 1 TD

Troy Smith can obviously run the football, he's proven that. This year he's proving he can be an elusive QB and still make accurate throws downfield.

He's still not a rush first QB, again, what Big Ten rushing records does he hold? White runs a 4.42 40 (WR speed), Smith a 4.74. Smith simply doesn't have White's breakaway speed: the longest 3 runs in Smith's career are 46, 34, and 29 yards. White in just 1.5 seasons has runs of 76, 69, and 47 yards and broke Vick's Big East single game rushing record twice. An example of this was when Smith had negative 13 yards rushing vs Texas on 7 tries, defenses that key (or look to contain him) on Smith will stop him because his supporting cast isn't like WVU's.

White also only played half the season last year and had better rushing stats than Smith did for the whole season: 131 rushes for 952 yards. No, Troy Smith cannot compare to White on the ground. Which gets back to my point, if Michigan totally focuses on Slaton then White or Schmitt will burn them. Michigan has not faced a juggernaut rushing team like WVU and Troy Smith certainly doesn't have the rushing skill of Pat White (although he's an absolute beast in the air). Yes, Smith can scramble i.e. like a McNabb to create smart passing opps which is why he will probably win the Heisman. No, Michigan has not faced a fast Vick-like QB yet.

But you still ignore the fact that oops, Michigan's defense is just as fast. And so what if they have that many yards rushing, it means they arent a balanced team offensively.

Here's the catch, Michigan has the #1 run defense in the country. Wisconsin a run heavy team couldn't run on them. Ditto Minnesota.
Through 8 games running backs average 1.42 yards/carry against UM, only 2 TDs in 8 games and 33.6 yards a game. Not only that, they have 29 sacks in 8 games, tied for 4th in the nation, 17th in the nation with tackles for loss with 63. Defenses like that have speed and power.

I know you dont wanna here this, but if michigan stopped the run on WVU. Game's over. Period. And looking at these stats, odds are for michigan to stop the run. And no offense michigan wouldnt focus entirely on Slaton. And you say White is a beast in the air? He has passed 93 times in 7 games. thats about 13 times a game. Again, more proof of a one sided offense.

All it takes is one team with a defense to stop the run, and WVU loses.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Feldenak

IIRC, Iowa was decimated by injuries for that game.

Do you follow college football in general or just WVU?

Name EXACTLY who was injured aside from Tate. Ever heard the saying, one man a team does not make? They had Sims and Young, their starting backs. They had their best receiver (TE Chandler). To have to use a goal line stand versus SYRACUSE in 2OT is absolutely pathetic, and the notion that you would even blame the game on "injuries" is hilarious. The B Team should have trounced Syracuse, they are the whipping boy of the Big East. Iowa is overrated and WVU would absolutely destroy them at Mountaineer Field. Hell, Iowa lost to freaking INDIANA who is ranked even lower than SYRACUSE on Dullard's list (61 vs 67). Now I have to ask, do you follow college football in general or just Iowa?

I like how u conveniently pound on Iowa and ignore all the posts concerning UM vs WVU.

Seriously what your opinion of WVU vs UM.

Cuz I have a hunch that if UM stops the running game of WVU, well ballgames over.

Seriously, it would be a very entertaining game because it would be two juggernauts colliding: WVU's high powered run vs Michigan's very good run D. It's hard to say who would win. However, I think Pat White would create big problems for them because Michigan hasn't faced a Micheal Vick type guy who is a rushing first QB and can pass on the run with success as well. He has a very high completion %, although he is young and will throw some INTs if the coverage is right. On the flipside, I think WVU would have trouble stopping Hart since Run D is their weakness and pass D more their strength.

Um....yes Michigan has faced a Mike Vick type QB, they've played Troy Smith couple years running. Granted they have a hard time stopping him, but Pat White is nowhere NEAR the level of skill/experience as Smith. However here is the thing, I dont have many doubts that UM would stop Slaton, which makes the game one sided which put the onus to perform on the QB. At that point, White really isnt the greatest QB.

EDIT: looking over offensive stats, WVU is a very one sided team. They run the ball.

For WVU
White has 822yards, 6TDs, 5INTs and 68.8comp pct
Slaton has 1117 yards and 9 TDs rushing
White has 640 yards and 9 TDs rushing

For UM
Henne has 1502 yards, 14TDs, 5INTs, 61.5 comp pct
Hart has 1057 yards and 8 TD rushing

First off, Troy Smith is absolutely NOT a Vick type QB, he has 126 yards rushing total on the year (3.5 per carry) vs Pat White's 640 (8.5 per carry over 73 tries) and White holds the top 2 highest single game rushing records in the Big East over the likes of Vick (3rd) and McNabb. Does Troy Smith hold the top 2 single game rushing records for the Big Ten (lol)? Troy Smith is NOT a rush first, pass second QB. So no, Michigan has not faced a QB like Vick yet. Troy Smith is a pass first QB and White is a rush first QB.

Second, you listed TD's like that means something. Yet you forgot to list the third piece of the 3 headed monster, fullback Owen Schmitt who WVU loves to go to in goal line situations over Slaton since defenses focus on Steve. Look at Schmitt's stats: 5 TD's, 181 yards and a 4.8 per carry. If you watched the Sugar Bowl you saw his 54 yard run carrying a defender on his back vs the vaunted UGA defense. Schmitt is pretty much a guarantee in short yardage situations.

Last, you list Hart's stats but forgot to list his yards per carry: uh, 4.8 vs Slaton's 7.0. There's a reason why Hart is behind Slaton in Heisman voting.

Overall, WVU has roughly 1,940 yards of rushing over 7 games among the 3 headed monster, 275 yards per game and 1st in the nation. That's why Michigan's very good run D vs WVU would be like two juggernauts colliding, it would be pretty cool but unlikely if they played in a Bowl game.

Thank you for proving my point....you don't follow college football in general, just WVU. In previous years Troy Smith was very much a running QB. The reasons he's not running wild this year is because he's playing within the system and he's trying to improve his draft stock.

Troy's rushing numbers for last season:
136 attempts for 722 yards and 11 TDs.

Troy's rushing numbers last year against Michigan:

11 attempts for 37 yards and 1 TD

Troy Smith can obviously run the football, he's proven that. This year he's proving he can be an elusive QB and still make accurate throws downfield.

He's still not a rush first QB, again, what Big Ten rushing records does he hold? White runs a 4.42 40 (WR speed), Smith a 4.74. Smith simply doesn't have White's breakaway speed: the longest 3 runs in Smith's career are 46, 34, and 29 yards. White in just 1.5 seasons has runs of 76, 69, and 47 yards and broke Vick's Big East single game rushing record twice. An example of this was when Smith had negative 13 yards rushing vs Texas on 7 tries, defenses that key (or look to contain him) on Smith will stop him because his supporting cast isn't like WVU's.

White also only played half the season last year and had better rushing stats than Smith did for the whole season: 131 rushes for 952 yards. No, Troy Smith cannot compare to White on the ground. Which gets back to my point, if Michigan totally focuses on Slaton then White or Schmitt will burn them. Michigan has not faced a juggernaut rushing team like WVU and Troy Smith certainly doesn't have the rushing skill of Pat White (although he's an absolute beast in the air). Yes, Smith can scramble i.e. like a McNabb to create smart passing opps which is why he will probably win the Heisman. No, Michigan has not faced a fast Vick-like QB yet.

But you still ignore the fact that oops, Michigan's defense is just as fast. And so what if they have that many yards rushing, it means they arent a balanced team offensively.

Here's the catch, Michigan has the #1 run defense in the country. Wisconsin a run heavy team couldn't run on them. Ditto Minnesota.
Through 8 games running backs average 1.42 yards/carry against UM, only 2 TDs in 8 games and 33.6 yards a game. Not only that, they have 29 sacks in 8 games, tied for 4th in the nation, 17th in the nation with tackles for loss with 63. Defenses like that have speed and power.

I know you dont wanna here this, but if michigan stopped the run on WVU. Game's over. Period. And looking at these stats, odds are for michigan to stop the run. And no offense michigan wouldnt focus entirely on Slaton. And you say White is a beast in the air? He has passed 93 times in 7 games. thats about 13 times a game. Again, more proof of a one sided offense.

All it takes is one team with a defense to stop the run, and WVU loses.

I'm not disagreeing with you that WVU may have to pass a little more than usual, but only if Michigan can stop the run. Hence why it would be an exciting game, it's a battle of two opposites. White can throw the ball, but he's never faced a team that could stop the run or been behind in a close game to resort to his arm.

You saying IF Michigan stopped WVU's running attack is just about as assumptuous as me saying they will run for 200+ yards on them. I'm not going to speculate on either, both are great at what they do and it would be a great game to watch.

 

[TraumaRN]

Yea thats why I said IF they stopped the run.

I also wonder about WVU's defense as far as stopping Mike Hart and Mario Manningham.

Thats what is so dangerous about Michigan. You stop one, they can still burn you with the other. PLus they have Adrian Arrington who looks to be a good receiver in the making as well. It'd be a good game no doubt. But if one side stops the other...then it would be ugly.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Bryan
Why oh WHY is Cal ranked higher than Tennessee?

"Cuz if they played again now, Cal would win."

Prove it. The only proof I saw or need was Tennessee absolutely making Cal their bitch in the opener.

Because there is more than 1 game in a football season. You could argue that the Tenn/Cal game is all that matters in the ratings. But Prove it. Prove that no other data is needed in ranking teams. Prove that the other games Tenn played and that the other games Cal played are meaningless.

But Cal's case is different. Cal's loss was a complete ass spanking at the hands of Tennessee and the score doesn't point out that the majority of Cal points were against the second team. Tennessee's loss came by ONE point in a game that came down to the very end and yet they are ranked behind Cal?

Hell, this is cut and dry. I don't need a formula to tell me who should be ranked ahead of who in this case. Sometimes people just need to open their eyes and look at the common sense answer. It's so freaking obvious... unless you're a Cal fan.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Hell, this is cut and dry. I don't need a formula to tell me who should be ranked ahead of who in this case. Sometimes people just need to open their eyes and look at the common sense answer. It's so freaking obvious... unless you're a Cal fan.

Come back and post that same thing after Tennessee's 2nd loss. And, if they never lose again, they'll be ranked quite high - so you have nothing to worry about.

Air Force could have easilly won or at least tied. Alabama was ahead with 4 minutes left in the game. Tennessee just doesn't deserve to be ranked too high YET. Tennessee is just two plays from being a 5-3 team. Of course, Tennessee is just one play from being an undefeated team too.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Bryan
Why oh WHY is Cal ranked higher than Tennessee?

"Cuz if they played again now, Cal would win."

Prove it. The only proof I saw or need was Tennessee absolutely making Cal their bitch in the opener.

Because there is more than 1 game in a football season. You could argue that the Tenn/Cal game is all that matters in the ratings. But Prove it. Prove that no other data is needed in ranking teams. Prove that the other games Tenn played and that the other games Cal played are meaningless.

But Cal's case is different. Cal's loss was a complete ass spanking at the hands of Tennessee and the score doesn't point out that the majority of Cal points were against the second team. Tennessee's loss came by ONE point in a game that came down to the very end and yet they are ranked behind Cal?

Hell, this is cut and dry. I don't need a formula to tell me who should be ranked ahead of who in this case. Sometimes people just need to open their eyes and look at the common sense answer. It's so freaking obvious... unless you're a Cal fan.

Tennessee's game against Air Force was WTF. There you go. Close calls like that make you wonder also how they could ass spank Cal so badly and play a significantly worse team and win by only 1 point.

No, I don't think Cal should be ranked that high, but there's no way we're that bad. Play the game on 9/2 over again and we could very well have a different result or at least a close game.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Bryan
Why oh WHY is Cal ranked higher than Tennessee?

"Cuz if they played again now, Cal would win."

Prove it. The only proof I saw or need was Tennessee absolutely making Cal their bitch in the opener.

Because there is more than 1 game in a football season. You could argue that the Tenn/Cal game is all that matters in the ratings. But Prove it. Prove that no other data is needed in ranking teams. Prove that the other games Tenn played and that the other games Cal played are meaningless.

But Cal's case is different. Cal's loss was a complete ass spanking at the hands of Tennessee and the score doesn't point out that the majority of Cal points were against the second team. Tennessee's loss came by ONE point in a game that came down to the very end and yet they are ranked behind Cal?

Hell, this is cut and dry. I don't need a formula to tell me who should be ranked ahead of who in this case. Sometimes people just need to open their eyes and look at the common sense answer. It's so freaking obvious... unless you're a Cal fan.

Tennessee's game against Air Force was WTF. There you go. Close calls like that make you wonder also how they could ass spank Cal so badly and play a significantly worse team and win by only 1 point.

No, I don't think Cal should be ranked that high, but there's no way we're that bad. Play the game on 9/2 over again and we could very well have a different result or at least a close game.

A win is a win. Ask the last Ohio State national championship team.

9/2/06 was Cal's chance to finally make the big time. Everyone wanted it because who wouldn't rather have one more West Coast power than another usual suspect. Cal flunked. They get their fifth chance next season.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Hell, this is cut and dry. I don't need a formula to tell me who should be ranked ahead of who in this case. Sometimes people just need to open their eyes and look at the common sense answer. It's so freaking obvious... unless you're a Cal fan.

Come back and post that same thing after Tennessee's 2nd loss. And, if they never lose again, they'll be ranked quite high - so you have nothing to worry about.

Air Force could have easilly won or at least tied. Alabama was ahead with 4 minutes left in the game. Tennessee just doesn't deserve to be ranked too high YET.

Records and team talent go out the window with big rivalry games like Bama & Tennessee.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Hell, this is cut and dry. I don't need a formula to tell me who should be ranked ahead of who in this case. Sometimes people just need to open their eyes and look at the common sense answer. It's so freaking obvious... unless you're a Cal fan.

Come back and post that same thing after Tennessee's 2nd loss. And, if they never lose again, they'll be ranked quite high - so you have nothing to worry about.

Air Force could have easilly won or at least tied. Alabama was ahead with 4 minutes left in the game. Tennessee just doesn't deserve to be ranked too high YET. Tennessee is just two plays from being a 5-3 team. Of course, Tennessee is just one play from being an undefeated team too.

Why don't we talk about the Cal game from this past weekend? Or the Notre Dame game? Texas was handed a win in a game they should have lost. When it comes down to it all that matters are wins. I have no doubt that Tennessee will lose another game this season. However, based on TODAY, Tennessee should be rated higher than Cal until someone else comes along and proves otherwise.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I have no doubt that Tennessee will lose another game this season.

If you have no doubt that they'd lose more than 1 game in a season, then I have no doubt that they deserve no higher than 6th place in my program at this point in time.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Hell, this is cut and dry. I don't need a formula to tell me who should be ranked ahead of who in this case. Sometimes people just need to open their eyes and look at the common sense answer. It's so freaking obvious... unless you're a Cal fan.

Come back and post that same thing after Tennessee's 2nd loss. And, if they never lose again, they'll be ranked quite high - so you have nothing to worry about.

Air Force could have easilly won or at least tied. Alabama was ahead with 4 minutes left in the game. Tennessee just doesn't deserve to be ranked too high YET. Tennessee is just two plays from being a 5-3 team. Of course, Tennessee is just one play from being an undefeated team too.

Why don't we talk about the Cal game from this past weekend? Or the Notre Dame game? Texas was handed a win in a game they should have lost. When it comes down to it all that matters are wins. I have no doubt that Tennessee will lose another game this season. However, based on TODAY, Tennessee should be rated higher than Cal until someone else comes along and proves otherwise.

You guys need to keep winning. I don't want Auburn to play Florida again in the SEC Championship. (Need you and LSU to come through for me and either Georiga or Spurrier to hand UF another loss).

Playing Florida again has no upside. Tough to beat a team twice in the same season plus if Auburn does beat Florida again...no bearing on the BCS.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I have no doubt that Tennessee will lose another game this season.

If you have no doubt that they'd lose more than 1 game in a season, then I have no doubt that they deserve no higher than 6th place in my program.

Plug this into your program.

Tennessee 35
California 18



What does this mean? We need a playoff because debating personal opinion and computer rankings is stupid.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: dullard

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Hell, this is cut and dry. I don't need a formula to tell me who should be ranked ahead of who in this case. Sometimes people just need to open their eyes and look at the common sense answer. It's so freaking obvious... unless you're a Cal fan.

Come back and post that same thing after Tennessee's 2nd loss. And, if they never lose again, they'll be ranked quite high - so you have nothing to worry about.

Air Force could have easilly won or at least tied. Alabama was ahead with 4 minutes left in the game. Tennessee just doesn't deserve to be ranked too high YET. Tennessee is just two plays from being a 5-3 team. Of course, Tennessee is just one play from being an undefeated team too.

Why don't we talk about the Cal game from this past weekend? Or the Notre Dame game? Texas was handed a win in a game they should have lost. When it comes down to it all that matters are wins. I have no doubt that Tennessee will lose another game this season. However, based on TODAY, Tennessee should be rated higher than Cal until someone else comes along and proves otherwise.

You guys need to keep winning. I don't want Auburn to play Florida again in the SEC Championship. (Need you and LSU to come through for me and either Georiga or Spurrier to hand UF another loss).

Playing Florida again has no upside. Tough to beat a team twice in the same season plus if Auburn does beat Florida again...no bearing on the BCS.

Yes, it's pretty stupid that you get penalized by beating the same team twice. At least the Pac 10 doesn't have to suffer such a travesty.

Believe me, I hope we win out and I hope that somehow Georgia gets their act together this weekend.

 

[dullard]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
Plug this into your program.

Tennessee 35
California 18



What does this mean? We need a playoff because debating personal opinion and computer rankings is stupid.

It is already in the program. And it is just 1/7th of Tenn's rating and 1/8th of Cal's rating. That gives Tenn a nice boost, but just 1/7th of a boost. It gives Cal a nice kick down, but only 1/8th of a kick. Each game is equally important in my system.

One great game and 6 good/mediocre/bad games gives Tenn a 6th place position. Be happy they are up that far.

I do agree that we need a playoff system. I've said that for years.