DUI = Life in Prison

[PrinceofWands]

you either don't understand what the definition is for premeditate or you are trolling.

Carrying a gun increases the chance of killing someone with a gun but it doesn't mean every Gun death is murder. Everyone knows this.

Premeditate:

• (v) premeditate (consider, ponder, or plan (an action) beforehand)
• (v) premeditate (think or reflect beforehand or in advance)

If you have ever heard that drinking and driving is dangerous, then you thought about it in advance, fulfilling definition 2. If you choose to drive a vehicle somewhere there could be alcohol then you are obviously planning to drive home also (so if you drink you know you'll be driving after drinking), thereby fulfilling definition 1. In fact, no matter how you get behind the wheel it is likely for a reason, thereby being equivalent to a plan (ie you planned to drive to the store after drinking).

Please provide peer-reviewed research supporting the bolded claim.

There are many states that make it illegal to carry a gun after drinking. Why do you think that is? Similarly they make it illegal to drive after drinking. If someone got drunk, took the weapon they were carrying, and killed someone, do you think they'd likely be charged with murder or manslaughter (plea bargains not-withstanding)? Why do you think driving should be any different?

Allow me to elucidate. While precise definitions vary from state to state, murder differs from manslaughter most commonly due either to 'malice aforethought' (ie premeditation), or due to depravity or extreme recklessness. That second part is why most cases of killing someone with a gun while drunk would result in an initial charge of murder (probably 2nd degree). Somehow the public thinks it's more acceptable to kill someone with a car than a gun (likely because the public is fucking stupid).

Oh, one other thing: numerous states also allow a charge of murder if the death was caused during the committing of another felony...like, say, felony DUI.

The problem isn't that the LAW doesn't allow for murder charges for DUI related deaths, it's that PEOPLE refuse to impose it.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

A local guy was just arrested for his 10th DWI!! The DA said that he averaged a DWI every 3.7 years. I think he got 10 years in the NY State Pen.

Fuckin drunks. Alcohol... it's a hellava drug.

According to most here, it statistically impossible he hasn't murdered an equivalent amount.

 

[PingSpike]

Lets face it, if you get caught with three DUIs you've probably gotten away with it 100s of times.

 

[theeedude]

As a CA taxpayer, I really don't want to be paying to keep this guy in prison for life over a DUI.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

Premeditate:

• (v) premeditate (consider, ponder, or plan (an action) beforehand)
• (v) premeditate (think or reflect beforehand or in advance)

If you have ever heard that drinking and driving is dangerous, then you thought about it in advance, fulfilling definition 2. If you choose to drive a vehicle somewhere there could be alcohol then you are obviously planning to drive home also (so if you drink you know you'll be driving after drinking), thereby fulfilling definition 1. In fact, no matter how you get behind the wheel it is likely for a reason, thereby being equivalent to a plan (ie you planned to drive to the store after drinking).

Please provide peer-reviewed research supporting the bolded claim.

There are many states that make it illegal to carry a gun after drinking. Why do you think that is? Similarly they make it illegal to drive after drinking. If someone got drunk, took the weapon they were carrying, and killed someone, do you think they'd likely be charged with murder or manslaughter (plea bargains not-withstanding)? Why do you think driving should be any different?

Allow me to elucidate. While precise definitions vary from state to state, murder differs from manslaughter most commonly due either to 'malice aforethought' (ie premeditation), or due to depravity or extreme recklessness. That second part is why most cases of killing someone with a gun while drunk would result in an initial charge of murder (probably 2nd degree). Somehow the public thinks it's more acceptable to kill someone with a car than a gun (likely because the public is fucking stupid).

Oh, one other thing: numerous states also allow a charge of murder if the death was caused during the committing of another felony...like, say, felony DUI.

The problem isn't that the LAW doesn't allow for murder charges for DUI related deaths, it's that PEOPLE refuse to impose it.

not just trolling but trolling hard. :awe:

Thank god no judge or legal body on the planet agrees with your interpretation of premeditate.

I've heard cars kill people sober too. Does that mean if I kill someone with my car sober I premeditated it? Your logic is fail. Driving is inherently dangerous, There is nothing inherently safe about the prospect of hurling along at 65 mph in 3000lbs of metal amongst hundreds and thousands of other large metal objects flying along. The whole concept screams of extreme recklessness. I suppose its why its one of the top ways to die with or without alcohol. stop trolling.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

As a CA taxpayer, I really don't want to be paying to keep this guy in prison for life over a DUI.

consider it the proper punishment for when he killed someone.

 

[gimmewhitecastles]

Premeditate:

• (v) premeditate (consider, ponder, or plan (an action) beforehand)
• (v) premeditate (think or reflect beforehand or in advance)

*snipped*

Are you serious? The crime is called Premeditated MURDER. Not Premeditated.

so just stick the word MURDER at the end of your definitions.

-consider, ponder, or plan MURDER

So its only Premeditated when you pick a target, hatch a plan to kill said target, carry out plan.

Drunks plan is to relieve stress/have fun/etc. They never intended to kill the person they kill.

I think you need to look up the definition of manslaugher.
You can get in a fight with someone and you end up killing him because you knocked him out and as he was falling he cracked his skull on the edge of the curb. It was dangerous because you chose to fight him but you did not intend to kill him. Thats called manslaughter.

 

[rudeguy]

Are you serious? The crime is called Premeditated MURDER. Not Premeditated.

so just stick the word MURDER at the end of your definitions.

-consider, ponder, or plan MURDER

So its only Premeditated when you pick a target, hatch a plan to kill said target, carry out plan.

Drunks plan is to relieve stress/have fun/etc. They never intended to kill the person they kill.

I think you need to look up the definition of manslaugher.
You can get in a fight with someone and you end up killing him because you knocked him out and as he was falling he cracked his skull on the edge of the curb. It was dangerous because you chose to fight him but you did not intend to kill him. Thats called manslaughter.

I know with Michigan law, planning to operate a vehicle is all the premeditation they need. So if a prosecutor ever wanted to try to make a name for himself, the wording is there.

I'm an admitted drunk and I am all in favor of making anything beyond a 1st offence a felony with mandatory PRISON time. Not 20 days in the county with work release...minimum one year in the big house. I would also be a fan of trying these types of cases as attempted murder.

 

[theeedude]

consider it the proper punishment for when he killed someone.

He should be released on condition that he moves out of the state.

 

[TheNinja]

I have no problem with it in this case. He clearly has a long history and is not going to change.

 

[Jeeebus]

I love when all the ATOT armchair lawyers come out to play. For what it's worth, PrinceofWards is not right... not by a long shot.

 

[Wreckem]

Premeditate:

• (v) premeditate (consider, ponder, or plan (an action) beforehand)
• (v) premeditate (think or reflect beforehand or in advance)

If you have ever heard that drinking and driving is dangerous, then you thought about it in advance, fulfilling definition 2. If you choose to drive a vehicle somewhere there could be alcohol then you are obviously planning to drive home also (so if you drink you know you'll be driving after drinking), thereby fulfilling definition 1. In fact, no matter how you get behind the wheel it is likely for a reason, thereby being equivalent to a plan (ie you planned to drive to the store after drinking).

Please provide peer-reviewed research supporting the bolded claim.

There are many states that make it illegal to carry a gun after drinking. Why do you think that is? Similarly they make it illegal to drive after drinking. If someone got drunk, took the weapon they were carrying, and killed someone, do you think they'd likely be charged with murder or manslaughter (plea bargains not-withstanding)? Why do you think driving should be any different?

Allow me to elucidate. While precise definitions vary from state to state, murder differs from manslaughter most commonly due either to 'malice aforethought' (ie premeditation), or due to depravity or extreme recklessness. That second part is why most cases of killing someone with a gun while drunk would result in an initial charge of murder (probably 2nd degree). Somehow the public thinks it's more acceptable to kill someone with a car than a gun (likely because the public is fucking stupid).

Oh, one other thing: numerous states also allow a charge of murder if the death was caused during the committing of another felony...like, say, felony DUI.

The problem isn't that the LAW doesn't allow for murder charges for DUI related deaths, it's that PEOPLE refuse to impose it.

Premeditated murder is murder 1. IE a capital offense.

Murder 1 is a specific intent crime, in every jurisdiction. Simply choosing to drive while intoxicated DOES not mean someone has the intent to murder someone.

People have been convicted of murder 2, ie: the drunk driver in the Adenhart case. Murder 2 does not require premeditation. Murder 2 also doesn't have life sentences in all jurisdictions. There are way more variables, ie: what type of intent, etc, in the various murder 2 statutes. Most jurisdictions don't do murder 2 for dui cases. They by statute, have a crime specifically for DUI deaths, that results in 10-20 years.

 

[PrinceofWands]

I love when all the ATOT armchair lawyers come out to play. For what it's worth, PrinceofWards is not right... not by a long shot.

Of course I'm not right with how it IS interpreted in court. I'm merely saying it's within the strict definitions and how it SHOULD be done.

Anyone who climbs into a car intoxicated KNOWS they may cause someone's death. For me, that's enough to qualify for a charge of murder 1 (or at LEAST murder 2), and not just manslaughter. What's more, I think it should carry an immediate (like within 1-5 years) death penalty. I have no mercy whatsoever, so don't try to play to it.

 

[alkemyst]

The problem is when one is intoxicated they really may not know.

Not saying it's 'ok', but this is why it's manslaughter.

 

[PrinceofWands]

The problem is when one is intoxicated they really may not know.

Not saying it's 'ok', but this is why it's manslaughter.

And I'm saying that the CHOICE to imbibe negates the mental state during inebriation...especially since millions upon millions of people manage to drink and not drive proving that it's possible. People CHOOSE to drink and drive. It's not the alcohol, it's not the devil, it's THEM. It's their stupidity, their egos, their selfishness. It's choice, pure and simple.

A person's state of mind should have no bearing on legal matters anyway...either they committed a crime or they didn't. At least, no more than once. I can accept a 2nd chance when no one is seriously injured, but after that you know you made a mistake and can't ever make another. If you do, you're demonstrating unwillingness or inability to exist in society and should be permanently removed from it.

 

[alkemyst]

except many that do over do, had no idea they were.

 

[PrinceofWands]

except many that do over do, had no idea they were.

IF it's true, and I don't don't believe it for a second, then the only thing it shows is someone who cannot be allowed to exist in society since they're a loaded gun just waiting to go off. The rest of us manage to get along without being zombified by a wine cooler and doing dangerous things that risk other people. Those that can't have no place.

 

[Ichinisan]

I know some repeat offenders that deserve 25-to-life for DUI.

 

[alkemyst]

IF it's true, and I don't don't believe it for a second, then the only thing it shows is someone who cannot be allowed to exist in society since they're a loaded gun just waiting to go off. The rest of us manage to get along without being zombified by a wine cooler and doing dangerous things that risk other people. Those that can't have no place.

The main problem is you have two kinds of DUI drivers that end up in accidents.

The first and main ones are those that get fall down drunk and just drive. Many of them don't have licenses anymore.


The latter are those that don't drink usually and don't stay out late. They get hit with a double whammy and think they are ok. They get into their cars and the alcohol does it's work.

They begin drifting in and out of consciousness/sleep.

In the end this has a lot to do with why it's a manslaughter conviction.

Keep in mind that DUI manslaughter carries a max penalty of over a decade in most places (if not all). This is a lifetime in prison for most.

There is also a Vehicular Homicide that can still be applied though to a drunk driver.

 

[1prophet]

I guess I'll go against the grain and say that I don't agree with this. A punishment should fit the crime. He presumable already did his time for the manslaughter charge, so I don't think it's fair that they should still use that to give him 25 years for a DUI.

Would you feel the same way if the judge took your advice and let him out much earlier and afterwards ends up killing someone close to you in another DUI incident?

 

[alkemyst]

Would you feel the same way if the judge took your advice and let him out much earlier and afterwards ends up killing someone close to you in another DUI incident?

so should all criminals never get out lest they commit their crimes again?