Dual Boxing: WoW

[Gdepp519]

yea i do.. hehe.. i dunno i find it alot more interesting that way..

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: BZeto
In a game like WoW it just seems like it would be so much easier and less complicated to level the characters separately. I know I would get pretty frustrated trying to manage 2 characters through zones like STV. Unless you really need 2 characters to 60/70 at once...

I think it may depend a bit on your class, BZ. The thing is, if I could've leveled a healing class (no priest since I already had a 60 priest at that point) with my warrior, I would've been in heaven. The warrior class is so reliant on heals or healing in general that it's not even funny. The reasons vs a rogue is that a) rogues have abilities to help attacks not hurt you, warriors are built to take attacks b) rogues have replenishing "mana" (energy vs rage) c) rogues deal more damage.

a) warriors may have parry and dodge, but a rogue's dodge is significantly higher and if you're combat spec, a rogue will have the same parry rating (usually 10% with maxed out defense). Also, parrying and dodging is less efficient on providing rage (i.e. source of damage) than taking the blow is.

b) rage is actually better in some cases than energy as going from fight-to-fight, but when it comes to having to eat after a fight, you'll have to start the next fight with either 0 rage or the rage you get from using Charge. With a healer, you can go from fight to fight and even last while that healer gets mana back (i.e. do a fight with no healing, which is possible).

c) simply, without rage, you have nothing to help you do damage. This is also big because until level 40, you have no instant attacks! This excludes overpower because it requires the enemy to dodge.

Warriors are domination machines with healers, but without, they're tedious and you realize just how hard it can be. Effectively, as a warrior, you should try to do quests that are yellow or green to you, unless you know the quest does not involve killing orange mobs (such as the bottle picking quest in the Hinterlands, which you can do while it's red).

EDIT: To expand on a couple things presented here. Rogues are actually not much more efficient with healers. Rogues have inherent downtime built into their energy. It takes 10 seconds for the energy bar to go from 0 to 100 and in the heat of the battle, that much time is significant! In other words, rogues, unlike warriors, are better off with short breaks as it makes them more efficient in the upcoming fight where a break makes the warrior less efficient.

 

[Genx87]

You want to be like "Team Wizzy"?
http://www.teamwizzy.com/images/TW-DeskPic2.jpg

And yes that guy would control a full group of players in daoc and could by himself with a little luck beat multiples more than him. I believe there are a few videos of him beating up zergs which is him vs about 30-40 people and winning lol.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
EDIT: To expand on a couple things presented here. Rogues are actually not much more efficient with healers. Rogues have inherent downtime built into their energy. It takes 10 seconds for the energy bar to go from 0 to 100 and in the heat of the battle, that much time is significant! In other words, rogues, unlike warriors, are better off with short breaks as it makes them more efficient in the upcoming fight where a break makes the warrior less efficient.

Depends on the rogue's build, but they go through hit points when the ****** hits the fan faster than any warrior will.

Easiest way I found for both classes is foods. Best combo of support professions is herb/alchemy for about any class out there. Learn cooking, keep it fairly high, and you can minimize downtime.

My rogue relies on some asssassination talents to have nearly endless action points which requires less energy (plus either remorseless attacks or the next tier can refund some energy)

 

[Gdepp519]

ok.. im not as knowledgable of the clases as you are.. so bear with me..

even though a rogue might have a bit of downtime.. i still don't completly understand why..
it would need a 10 sec downtime.. as you explain.. and the reason they have that 10 sec downtime
is because they have to wait for their energy to recharge??

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: Gdepp519
ok.. im not as knowledgable of the clases as you are.. so bear with me..

even though a rogue might have a bit of downtime.. i still don't completly understand why..
it would need a 10 sec downtime.. as you explain.. and the reason they have that 10 sec downtime
is because they have to wait for their energy to recharge??

A rogue won't have to heal between every fight due to stunlocking, dodge, and parry. Energy regenerates fast enough that it's almost always full in the time it takes to loot the mob you just killed and stealth to the next one. So you only run into downtime evey 3-5 mobs when you have to heal, which takes as little as 12 seconds if you're using bandages.

If you throw a healer into the mix, you're cutting the XP per kill per character by half. But you won't kill mobs twice as fast because rogues (as I just explained) have very little downtime.

Warriors, on the other hand, tend to take more damage during their fights (mainly due to lack of stuns and lower dps). So they might have to stop and heal every other mob. While they're doing this they lose any rage they've accumulated, so the ability the jump from mob to mob while a healers keep their health full provides a much greater benefit, relatively, than it would a rogue.

Every other class is mana reliant, so healers don't help much (except for warlocks who can convert health to mana). They could, however, benefit from pairing with a tanking class because they can concentrate on mana efficient offensive spells instead of defensive spells, effectively doing more damage per mana than they could solo.

In any case, a friend and I have tried a lot of different character combos (we both have 4 60's), and I've never been able to beat my solo xp/hour if the character is set up properly to grind.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: ggnl
Warriors, on the other hand, tend to take more damage during their fights (mainly due to lack of stuns and lower dps). So they might have to stop and heal every other mob. While they're doing this they lose any rage they've accumulated, so the ability the jump from mob to mob while a healers keep their health full provides a much greater benefit, relatively, than it would a rogue.

Every other class is mana reliant, so healers don't help much (except for warlocks who can convert health to mana). They could, however, benefit from pairing with a tanking class because they can concentrate on mana efficient offensive spells instead of defensive spells, effectively doing more damage per mana than they could solo.

Well my warrior if fighting even con or greater will bandage every other fight, that takes little time but I always do it. The key is that when she gets adds she doesn't have to run.

Now, there is nothing wrong with having a second character along NOT grouped with you. That won't eat your XP much if at all if you pull along a "pocket healer"

fastest class for me to level was the hunter, my rogue hit forty in under 3 days played but I was spending way too much time with herbalism/alchemy.

When it comes to farming nothing has beaten a hunter, but my mage is close. Most things die before they can reach her, and if I put her back to frost she can go back to farming elites

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Depends on the rogue's build, but they go through hit points when the ****** hits the fan faster than any warrior will.

When it comes to leveling, I assume people use a combat-heavy build and that's what I use in my discussions (as I talk about higher parry, higher dodge, etc).

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Easiest way I found for both classes is foods. Best combo of support professions is herb/alchemy for about any class out there. Learn cooking, keep it fairly high, and you can minimize downtime.

I'm usually really big on time played, so I try to avoid leveling tradeskills too much, unless I really need something (such as when I made Robe of Power for my mage). First Aid is one of the few tradeskills that I will level up normally, because it's actually a good source of experience at level 35 for nothing more than 5 minutes of your time in Theramore/Hammerfall.

Originally posted by: Shivetya
My rogue relies on some asssassination talents to have nearly endless action points which requires less energy (plus either remorseless attacks or the next tier can refund some energy)

Remorseless Attacks... never been a huge fan of it. Sometimes I'll put 1 point in it for the little extra boost. When it came to being a "backstab rogue", it didn't do as much as it would if I were in my old Mutilate build.

I do use Relentless Strikes and I used to use Ruthlessness. The problem is that Ruthlessness doesn't offer much for easy-to-kill mobs and isn't a definitive skill to rely on. Also, with Mutilate, you generate combo points fast anyway .

Originally posted by: Gdepp519
even though a rogue might have a bit of downtime.. i still don't completly understand why..
it would need a 10 sec downtime.. as you explain.. and the reason they have that 10 sec downtime
is because they have to wait for their energy to recharge??

Yes, energy is constantly recharging at the rate of 20 energy per 2 seconds. The problem is, typically after 2 or 3 attacks (depending on what move you use), you're OOE (Out Of Energy). Once you run out of energy and have to wait for more, your DPS will start dropping considerably compared to the huge bursts in the beginning. You don't start a fight without full energy because of this state of reduced energy and how it drops your DPS.

Originally posted by: ggnl
A rogue won't have to heal between every fight due to stunlocking, dodge, and parry. Energy regenerates fast enough that it's almost always full in the time it takes to loot the mob you just killed and stealth to the next one. So you only run into downtime evey 3-5 mobs when you have to heal, which takes as little as 12 seconds if you're using bandages.

I'm usually not so lucky when I play, I tend to go straight from mob-to-mob without paying much attention. Looting consists of merely shift+clicking the mob and going to the next one, so I sometimes have to wait. Also, my 60 rogue has 120 energy, so he has to wait even longer .

Originally posted by: ggnl
If you throw a healer into the mix, you're cutting the XP per kill per character by half. But you won't kill mobs twice as fast because rogues (as I just explained) have very little downtime.

Warriors, on the other hand, tend to take more damage during their fights (mainly due to lack of stuns and lower dps). So they might have to stop and heal every other mob. While they're doing this they lose any rage they've accumulated, so the ability the jump from mob to mob while a healers keep their health full provides a much greater benefit, relatively, than it would a rogue.

I agree with a good portion of this, except even as a combat rogue, you tend to receive a lot of hits, you just happen to dodge/parry them more often than not. My not-so-60 rogue has about 30-some dodge and 10 parry, that's about a 40% chance he won't be hit by a same-level mob (also taking into account the ability for a mob to miss). There's also a lot of tricks you can use as a rogue that remove your need for a healer . You've got crazy tactics like Blind-n-Bandage (warriors can Int Shout -n- bandage, but they have to be good about it or they'll hit the mob and remove the fleeing debuff). Also, you can't forget that warriors need to also take damage in battles or they won't make as much rage. You only get rage from being hit or dealing damage (from a move that doesn't use rage).

Originally posted by: ggnl
In any case, a friend and I have tried a lot of different character combos (we both have 4 60's), and I've never been able to beat my solo xp/hour if the character is set up properly to grind.

I'd say you'll probably only beat this if you have a warrior and you compare your xp/hr with a healer. Note that you do not do this with a priest. Priests can kill mobs easily without any help with the right spec. I'd say your best bet is a Paladin or a Druid. Maybe a shaman, I'm not sure since mine is so low level. Paladins don't kill mobs that quickly until they get some nice gear, so you both could actually attack and the paladin could just heal when necessary. Druids seem to really lack physical damage potency for a bit of their lower levels, but they still have a good number of heals. This could help in a warrior + healer combination.

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Now, there is nothing wrong with having a second character along NOT grouped with you. That won't eat your XP much if at all if you pull along a "pocket healer"

The only problem with this is Gdepp wants to level them both at the saem time .

Originally posted by: Shivetya
fastest class for me to level was the hunter, my rogue hit forty in under 3 days played but I was spending way too much time with herbalism/alchemy.

Hunters are insane... I can kill red con mobs with my hunter lol. My next most insane class I think was either my mage or my priest.

Originally posted by: Shivetya
When it comes to farming nothing has beaten a hunter, but my mage is close. Most things die before they can reach her, and if I put her back to frost she can go back to farming elites

I'm not sure if that's true. There's one thing you may not take into account and that's the cost of farming. My priest needs to drink, my rogue needs to use poisons and my warrior needs to eat. They all need to buy the items to do this, but my mage makes all of his food and water. He also 3-shots the non-elite 58+ mobs in Silithus with his somewhat crappy gear. He's a fire mage though (2/46/3).

 

[Gdepp519]

so you think warrior priest is the best combo ehh??

 

[BZeto]

I've leveled 6 characters to 60 since I started playing wow. Every class but priest, shaman and mage. I mostly level by doing solo questing and only group for elite or instance quests. I'd say warlock was easiest/fastest because I could solo just about every quest outside of an instance.
I look forward to leveling my rogue to 70. As far as the warrior vs rogue in downtime and damage dealing I'd have to agree. The warrior felt softer than the rogue most of the time while leveling just because it took slightly longer to kill mobs, especially if I had a string of misses or mob parries that gimped my rage. But at the same time the rogue is limited its energy regen. I like the new Combat Potency talent in combat tree, even if it is unreliable. It gives energy a rage-like feel at times.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Gdepp519
so you think warrior priest is the best combo ehh??

Warrior + Druid or Paladin.

Priests are so easy to solo with once you get to about level 20. My Druid still sucks to level with at level 25 and I don't predict him becoming strong until about 35-40. Druids can also help with non-interfering outdoor CC (non-int. meaning you won't fear and pull other mobs and outdoor because entangling roots can only be used outdoors.. does not count caves either) that affects all mob types.

With the Druid you can also nuke a little from far away (a couple noobfires or so).

PS. I like these WoW topics, we need a separate WoW forum or something . No jokes about going to the real WoW forums... I try not to at certain times during the day.

EDIT:

Originally posted by: BZeto
The warrior felt softer than the rogue most of the time while leveling just because it took slightly longer to kill mobs, especially if I had a string of misses or mob parries that gimped my rage.

Ugh that is the worst... when you keep missing and you have a slow 3.5+ 2H weapon. This is even worse if you don't have Mortal Strike or Bloodthirst. It got so bad in some fights that I resorted to using Slam lol. We all know how great Slam is :roll:.

 

[Gdepp519]

haha.. we'll it sounds like ill be doing a warrior preist combo.. and see how it goes...
if i get bored.. maybe ill mix it up with a rogue.. instead of warrior.. personally it doesn't matter
because i will be grouping with friends.. but we'll see..

i def agree with a nother forum like wow or video games.. and then a subtopic wow within games

 

[BZeto]

Btw Gdepp, what realm will you be playing on? You may also want to wait until the expansion is actually out before creating the characters. That way you can make a Blood Elf or Drainae (sp?) to be a little different.

 

[Gdepp519]

yea.. that exactly when i was planning on playing.. a couple days after the expansion.. im not sure what realm yet.. ill be playing with my buds.. when i find out ill post

 

[KMFJD]

Mage/Priest combo is quite effective, very little down time if any

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: KMFJD
Mage/Priest combo is quite effective, very little down time if any

Can you actually negate the fact that mages use a lot of water? My mage's downtime wasn't really that bad, I mean he rarely needed to get health back, but it was mainly just his mana. I'm not sure that you can stop that unless both priest and mage attack.

 

[Oakenfold]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: KMFJD
Mage/Priest combo is quite effective, very little down time if any

Can you actually negate the fact that mages use a lot of water? My mage's downtime wasn't really that bad, I mean he rarely needed to get health back, but it was mainly just his mana. I'm not sure that you can stop that unless both priest and mage attack.

Depends on your fighting tactics and your goal. If you want XP just for the Mage:
Kite, Kite, Kite, AE, AE, AE. Control your aggro, keep it off the priest. You should earn enough XP to where downtime is irrelevant. Helps when the priest is geared well and a few levels above the mage.

 

[Aikouka]

Mmm I can see for AoE farming, but I don't see the worth for leveling. For me, joining up and leveling is good when it's hard for a class to do it. Which is why I chose warrior + druid/paladin for the best suited combo. Warrior is just hellish alone, it's really not even fun at all. Especially if you've played any other class and you know how much easier it is for them. Druid/Paladin isn't hard nor impossible, it's just either slow or irritating. My druid's feral (like level 24) and he can't do crap in feral form, he's simply too weak at the moment. I don't see him becoming a power house until around level 35-40. Paladins just kill stuff too slowly. I can barely stand playing mine because it's more boring than a priest leveling.

But when it comes to mages, once you hit level 20 and get pyroblast and you have blink and frost nova... you're golden. Priests are great at 20, because that's where you get Mind Flay, which is one of your best damaging moves. After this point, both classes become significantly easier. Heck, at this point, my mage 3-shots 58-ish mobs and he still has green gear (only epics are Staff of Jordan laugh: ), FM shoulders and FM gloves).

EDIT: Fixed ze smiley!

 

[Oakenfold]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
Mmm I can see for AoE farming, but I don't see the worth for leveling.

You didn't have enough mobs in your kite then.

 

[Aikouka]

I leveled fire, not frost . Sometimes I prefer the direct damage over AoE.

 

[ksheets]

yeh i really think you need a tanking/healing type because you HAVE to keep aggro off the 2nd box...it gets too hard to manage both. But it took me about 5 months of casual play to level them both to 60 with 300 trade skills in enchanting and tailoring.

The really great thing about leveling up is you can farm the crap out of everything. Have a miner/skinner herbalist and just collect everything. I was able to level my enchating and tailoring without buying from the AH (it was REALLY nice when you could disenchant anything at lvl 1 skill ..damn them). I duel boxed SM so many times it was sick.

I actually have 3 accounts and a laptop i can 3 box...maybe a rogue and 2 driuds?

 

[Hecubus28]

Theres a guy one one of the servers that people complain about from time to time, he controls 4 mages and a priest I think. Xzin, is his main ones name. He uses one wireless keyboard to control all his characters. Pretty neat setup.

 

[Gdepp519]

yea i decided to go with a Warrior and a Priest combo...

I'm still getting use to it though.. because its a bit difficult getting my left hand familiar with the keys on my keyboard.. and
its also a bit difficult keeping aggro off the priest if i get an add..

I think im going to spec the warrior as a berserker.. and a priest as shadow...

Its really quite easy.. i have a macro to auto-follow the warrior.. and to target assist the warrior.. and then i have spells lined up..
but still in the process of memorizing them.. hehe

its just gets sticky if i have more than one person in the group .. so i need to figure out how to handle that.. more efficiently..
my friends keep telling me about different UI's that help with this.. so ill have to search today and see what i find..

 

[pwilson316]

Does anyone see any merit in dual boxing a Rogue and a Druid together? Mainly to sneak into instances to the bosses.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: Gdepp519
yea i decided to go with a Warrior and a Priest combo...

The only problem I see with this is there are very few situations where a priest cannot solo a same-level mob. This includes elites. That's why I said it wasn't worth it to level a priest (a very soloable class) with a class that has a hard time soloing. I saw your idea of dual-boxing as making a harder situation easier, but if it's just leveling two classes, then it may not matter.

Originally posted by: Gdepp519
I'm still getting use to it though.. because its a bit difficult getting my left hand familiar with the keys on my keyboard.. and
its also a bit difficult keeping aggro off the priest if i get an add..

I think im going to spec the warrior as a berserker.. and a priest as shadow...

It'll get easier as you get higher up and the warrior gets more skills.

Be aware that if you spec Fury, you'll probably spend a decent amount of your time in Berserker Stance, and the problem with that is Berserker Stance actually lowers your aggro (80% of normal, if I remember correctly).

Originally posted by: Gdepp519
its just gets sticky if i have more than one person in the group .. so i need to figure out how to handle that.. more efficiently..
my friends keep telling me about different UI's that help with this.. so ill have to search today and see what i find..

Just use the keys to select other players in your party. F1 = You, F2 = Party Member 1, etc. Although, unless you set them, there isn't a key for pets . Although, I honestly think being a main healer and a main tank in a group would be quite difficult to do. There's a lot of reaction time that you need, because no one's perfect and sometimes you get adds and junk and you may have to respond with the warrior to go tank that mob as well as the one (or two) you already have and then possibly heal the guy who aggro'd the mob in the first place (or put a bubble on him until the warrior can get to the mob). Usually for extra mobs, I tend to just hit berserker stance and intercept them. The recommendation for that is to put berserker stance on your defensive stance bar and on your berserker stance bar, put Intercept where Berserker stance was on the defensive stance bar. This way, you just hit the same button twice to intercept from defensive stance.

Originally posted by: pwilson316
Does anyone see any merit in dual boxing a Rogue and a Druid together? Mainly to sneak into instances to the bosses.

I used to duo instances with a druid friend of mine and we did quite well. I remember duoing Mother Smolderweb, Halcyon and Giz'rul the Slavener (the hardest one out of the three) in Lower Blackrock Spire at level 60. This was a long time ago as well, so both of us had kinda crappy gear. Heh, it took about 25 Mother Smolderweb kills to get the Wildheart Boots (I think that's the piece she drops) to drop... then Giz'rul took two kills to get the Shoulders to drop.