Alright, i was just wondering if there was a "beginner" SLR camera. I dont have much money (as u've seen in my car thread) but i'm into photography and would like an SLR camera.
If i can't get a body for that much, i'll just stick with our family's HP 4mp P&S camera...still takes good pictures anyways!
Thanks though.
With that much money you can buy a pretty nice broken DSLR. You might be able to find a used one for that much money. Sometimes Dell has a deal on a Canon 300D kit for around 600.
GTaudiophile
Lifer
- Oct 24, 2000
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What would I do on a tight budget?
Find an EOS-300D/Digital Rebel. ($617 at BuyDig.com for the Body) Then combine that with the Sigma 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 ($342.00)
TOTAL: $959 + S&H
OR consider the EOS-300D/Digital Rebel with kit lens for $659.00.
OR consider the EOS-350D/Digital Rebel XT (body only) for $829.95 and combine that with the Sigma 18-50 F2.8 for $499.00.
Whatever you do, I suggest you get the kit lens. youre only spending 50 or so bucks on a decent lens.
Nocturnal
Lifer
- Jan 8, 2002
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You should really think about it. I noticed that there is a really big trend in going the DSLR route lately. The thing is, I know people who had p&s cams, then bought a Canon 10d and for like six months used it and now they don't even touch it. Is that going to be you? Or will you continue to use your camera say a few years down the line? If you're rich and can afford the glass that comes with the camera, do it. If not, at times you won't be happy and you'll be yearning for more glass. Trust me, I know first hand.
GTaudiophile
Lifer
- Oct 24, 2000
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The 300D vs. 350D vs. 20D is no real debate in my mind. Any of those can take fantastic or poor shots depending on two things: 1) the knowledge of the photographer, and 2) the quality of the lens.
You'll find that once you get big into the DSLR hobby, you begin an endless search for the perfect lens. And then, once you think you've found it, you conduct test after test comparing saturation, sharpness, etc., only to find out you spent $1500 on a bad copy. The pros buy and sell lenses all the time, looking for the right one with the right speed for the right moment with the right lighting conditions. It's on obsession.
Off the top of my head, here are just a handful of good lenses:
Sigma 18-50
Sigma 18-125
Sigma 18-200
Sigma 30 F1.4
Tamron 28-75 F2.8
Canon 28-105
Canon 28-135 IS
Canon 17-85 IS
Canon 10-22
Canon 17-40L
Canon 24-70L
Canon 70-200L IS
Canon 35 F2.0
Canon 50 F1.8
Canon 50 F1.4
Canon 35 F1.4L...
Finding the right one for your needs is a quite a challenge IMO.
You'll find that once you get big into the DSLR hobby, you begin an endless search for the perfect lens. And then, once you think you've found it, you conduct test after test comparing saturation, sharpness, etc., only to find out you spent $1500 on a bad copy. The pros buy and sell lenses all the time, looking for the right one with the right speed for the right moment with the right lighting conditions. It's on obsession.
Off the top of my head, here are just a handful of good lenses:
Sigma 18-50
Sigma 18-125
Sigma 18-200
Sigma 30 F1.4
Tamron 28-75 F2.8
Canon 28-105
Canon 28-135 IS
Canon 17-85 IS
Canon 10-22
Canon 17-40L
Canon 24-70L
Canon 70-200L IS
Canon 35 F2.0
Canon 50 F1.8
Canon 50 F1.4
Canon 35 F1.4L...
Finding the right one for your needs is a quite a challenge IMO.
Maybe if I had the funds that some of you rich amateurs have, I might understand the fussing over finding the perfect lens, etc. However, it doesn't have to be an obsession if you don't want it to be. I'd rather spend the money on going somewhere neat (and shoot a few stitched multi-image shots if I need more resolution) than paying off credit card bills generated in pursuit of the latest and greatest, whether it be computer or camera hardware. Self control is a virtue; owning a DSLR just requires a bit more of it than owning a P&S.
GTaudiophile
Lifer
- Oct 24, 2000
- 29,767
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Originally posted by: ProviaFan
Maybe if I had the funds that some of you rich amateurs have, I might understand the fussing over finding the perfect lens, etc. However, it doesn't have to be an obsession if you don't want it to be. I'd rather spend the money on going somewhere neat (and shoot a few stitched multi-image shots if I need more resolution) than paying off credit card bills generated in pursuit of the latest and greatest, whether it be computer or camera hardware. Self control is a virtue; owning a DSLR just requires a bit more of it than owning a P&S.
Then NEVER go into the Canon DSLR Lens forum at DPreview.com!!!
Those guys do extensive side-by-side comparisons of lenses, comparing edge sharpness, center sharpness, saturation, etc. There are CLEAR differences, and unfortunately, the $1000+ "L" lenses usually win the day.
dartworth
Lifer
- Jul 29, 2001
- 15,200
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GTaudiophile
Lifer
- Oct 24, 2000
- 29,767
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An example of what the $1600 Canon EF 70-200 F2.8L IS lens can do.
That is SHARP! Your everyday 70-200mm cannot do that!
That is SHARP! Your everyday 70-200mm cannot do that!
I have seen some excellent photography from the pros and a few amateurs at DPReview. However, most of them benchmark their lenses like folks around here benchmark their computers. Finding some actually interesting photographs can be a challenge at times.
Fortunately, I don't have to worry about lenses as much, because at 2.6MP you can't tell a difference unless it's some coke bottle bottom-of-the-line Sigma. When I can afford a D4x, then I can worry about getting the 800mm f/2.8 AF-S VR.
A lowend Sigma on a 2X teleconverter could do that...
...at the resolution you're using to judge sharpness. At 8x10, or especially 11x14, you'd definitely notice a tremendous difference.
You seem to be a Canon fanboy, but I'm a Nikon fan to a limited degree, and I must throw in the tidbit that Nikon's 70-200mm f/2.8 VR lens could put in similar performance.
GeekDrew
Diamond Member
- Jun 7, 2000
- 9,099
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I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I personally prefer using a Sony CyberShot DSC-F828 over most digital cameras... the quality is good (would be even better if it had someone operating it that could keeps his hands steady while shooting...), *some* people say it rivals lower DSLRs, and it's a fairly good camera in just about any setting - definitely not the best, but it's very, very far from a bad camera. It uses either MemoryStick, for Sony people, or CompactFlash, for the rest of the world (and Canon folks). It can handle everything automatically, if you want, and you can control nearly everything manually, as well. I can't think of anything off of the top of my head you can't manually control, if you so desire. It's rated a 8 MP, though most of the time I used 5 MP (to use less disk space) because I wasn't shooting for great quality, and was instead just taking pictures for the heck of it. The only negative to that cam is that it has a fixed lens (Carl Zeiss), so you can't swap lenses. After looking around at quite a few cameras, I think that once I have enough money, I'll probably buy myself another DSC-F828 (or possibly a newer model, if there is one by that time).
Also, I haven't looked into it much, but I hear that the DSC-F727 is less expensive, but has nearly every quality that a DSC-F828 does. You might consider it as well.
That said, I have not been at all impressed with the other Sony Cybershot cameras that I've used.
After looking around at quite a few cameras, I think that once I have enough money, I'll probably buy myself another DSC-F828 (or possibly a newer model, if there is one by that time). Also, I haven't looked into it much, but I hear that the DSC-F727 is less expensive, but has nearly every quality that a DSC-F828 does. You might consider it as well.
That said, I have not been at all impressed with the other Sony Cybershot cameras that I've used.
dartworth
Lifer
- Jul 29, 2001
- 15,200
- 10
- 81
Originally posted by: GeekDrew
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I personally prefer using a Sony CyberShot DSC-F828 over most digital cameras... the quality is good (would be even better if it had someone operating it that could keeps his hands steady while shooting...), *some* people say it rivals lower DSLRs, and it's a fairly good camera in just about any setting - definitely not the best, but it's very, very far from a bad camera. It uses either MemoryStick, for Sony people, or CompactFlash, for the rest of the world (and Canon folks). It can handle everything automatically, if you want, and you can control nearly everything manually, as well. I can't think of anything off of the top of my head you can't manually control, if you so desire. It's rated a 8 MP, though most of the time I used 5 MP (to use less disk space) because I wasn't shooting for great quality, and was instead just taking pictures for the heck of it. The only negative to that cam is that it has a fixed lens (Carl Zeiss), so you can't swap lenses.
Also, I haven't looked into it much, but I hear that the DSC-F727 is less expensive, but has nearly every quality that a DSC-F828 does. You might consider it as well.
That said, I have not been at all impressed with the other Sony Cybershot cameras that I've used.
andy williams has some great 828 pics. He does wonderful work.
I believe he is using a Canon DSLR now too...
Playing devils advocate:
Off the cuff I would say it depends on the photographer.
My sister and I both had a daughter within 6 months of each other
She went the DSLR route and I went the P&S route (older canon S50 and new Casio Z750).
She frequently moans about how she should have got the P&S, esp when I send a movie, or a picture I could have only taken because the camera is always with me.
My original intent was the P&S for now and a DSLR after we buy the house etc. Now I'm not so sure. I really enjoy live preview, past movie mode, live histogram, pocketable convienience and the ruggedness of the P&S
Another thing keeping me from DSLRs. We are clutzes! Does anyone have experience with dropping DSLRs on pavement? Do they break? I've had 3 hard drops on my S50 and 2 on the Z750 (in the first week alone!) and both are still working perfectly. Really afraid that a week after getting my 20D the lens will be shattered all over the parking lot.....
> I wish you luck in your movie making efforts. I'd never try it because I have enough trouble capturing a fixed moment in time, let alone a continuous period at 24 (or however many) frames per second!
Z750's "past movie mode" is great for this. Keep your camera on the subject. Wait for something movieable to happen. Click the shutter. Recording is started 8 seconds in the past. Saves so much post processing. Well saves almost all post processing, all my movies have exactly what I want on them, not a lot of useless footage trying to capture those two seconds of magic......
Right now she's not moving too much so the p&s is working great even in low light. Maybe in a few months when she's more mobile I'll hear the call of a the DSLR stronger and join the herd......
Off the cuff I would say it depends on the photographer.
My sister and I both had a daughter within 6 months of each other
She went the DSLR route and I went the P&S route (older canon S50 and new Casio Z750).
She frequently moans about how she should have got the P&S, esp when I send a movie, or a picture I could have only taken because the camera is always with me.
My original intent was the P&S for now and a DSLR after we buy the house etc. Now I'm not so sure. I really enjoy live preview, past movie mode, live histogram, pocketable convienience and the ruggedness of the P&S
Another thing keeping me from DSLRs. We are clutzes! Does anyone have experience with dropping DSLRs on pavement? Do they break? I've had 3 hard drops on my S50 and 2 on the Z750 (in the first week alone!) and both are still working perfectly. Really afraid that a week after getting my 20D the lens will be shattered all over the parking lot.....
> I wish you luck in your movie making efforts. I'd never try it because I have enough trouble capturing a fixed moment in time, let alone a continuous period at 24 (or however many) frames per second!
Z750's "past movie mode" is great for this. Keep your camera on the subject. Wait for something movieable to happen. Click the shutter. Recording is started 8 seconds in the past. Saves so much post processing. Well saves almost all post processing, all my movies have exactly what I want on them, not a lot of useless footage trying to capture those two seconds of magic......
Right now she's not moving too much so the p&s is working great even in low light. Maybe in a few months when she's more mobile I'll hear the call of a the DSLR stronger and join the herd......
Replying to "trikster2" without quoting his whole post...
You have some good points. If you want family snapshots (hey, nothing wrong with that - I have a digital P&S for that stuff, too), or basically most things other than professional, sports, or fine art landscape usage, a P&S is much less hassle and more likely to get used. Technical imperfections aside, if you don't have the camera with you, you're not going to get the shot.
For folks into photography as a pursuit in itself, or as a side effect of the pursuit of more and better gear, a DSLR makes perfect sense and is by far the better choice IMHO. Some of us are crazy enough to carry our heavy (and I don't mean DRebel + kit lens "heavy") gear with us almost anywhere, but most people aren't stupid enough to hurt themselves in this way.
You have some good points. If you want family snapshots (hey, nothing wrong with that - I have a digital P&S for that stuff, too), or basically most things other than professional, sports, or fine art landscape usage, a P&S is much less hassle and more likely to get used. Technical imperfections aside, if you don't have the camera with you, you're not going to get the shot.
For folks into photography as a pursuit in itself, or as a side effect of the pursuit of more and better gear, a DSLR makes perfect sense and is by far the better choice IMHO. Some of us are crazy enough to carry our heavy (and I don't mean DRebel + kit lens "heavy") gear with us almost anywhere, but most people aren't stupid enough to hurt themselves in this way.
Originally posted by: Ornery
Gee, I don't know. Maybe capturing a shot you otherwise would NOT have had at all?
Clearly I thought the implication was low-light photography, which means NO FLASH. Besides, with a flash, any decent camera should be able to focus in darkness. That's a given. Try that same picture with your p&s w/o the flash. Then we can compare.
Word to this. I own an SD200 for my ultra-portable needs (and video! omg GREAT quality!) and own an FZ5 due to it's ultra-zoom (12x), Leica lens, and ~$400 price tag. It's an AMAZING camera and it's not huge, so I can comfortably take it places. Also, I'm sorry, but I ****HATE**** using the eyepiece, I want a digicam that I can see the LCD and snap the pic w/ it, which the Rebel won't do.
The FZ5 is everything a prosumer would need until they start doing photo work for cash, IMO.
but we don't really know how to use it yet. DSLR is a good choice, but these cameras have a TON of features that you should acquaint yourself with. it will take a lot of patience and time, and it's probably a good idea to get a book or something to get yourself started.
Originally posted by: ProviaFan
Replying to "trikster2" without quoting his whole post...
You have some good points. If you want family snapshots (hey, nothing wrong with that - I have a digital P&S for that stuff, too), or basically most things other than professional, sports, or fine art landscape usage, a P&S is much less hassle and more likely to get used. Technical imperfections aside, if you don't have the camera with you, you're not going to get the shot.
For folks into photography as a pursuit in itself, or as a side effect of the pursuit of more and better gear, a DSLR makes perfect sense and is by far the better choice IMHO. Some of us are crazy enough to carry our heavy (and I don't mean DRebel + kit lens "heavy") gear with us almost anywhere, but most people aren't stupid enough to hurt themselves in this way.
Best Reply here in this thread.
BTW, Ornery, you don't seem to know much about Dslrs. Or, maybe you just don't get it.
At this time and for a long time, no compact cameras can match Dslrs when it come to AF along with other areas.
i love my dslr.. i just never have any time to go out and take photo's. the few times that I have.. love it.
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