Drowning in debt: Obama's spending and borrowing leaves U.S. gasping for air

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski
No, what's your point? We all know the Debt is getting bigger. Some of us understand why and the necessity of it. Others just see it getting bigger and run around screaming about it.

So in other words, you have nothing else to add?

What's to add?

I'll bite. Why is it necessary for the debt to get bigger in the long term?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski
No, what's your point? We all know the Debt is getting bigger. Some of us understand why and the necessity of it. Others just see it getting bigger and run around screaming about it.

So in other words, you have nothing else to add?

What's to add?

I'll bite. Why is it necessary for the debt to get bigger in the long term?

Your question is incorrect. Short Term Debt is necessary to Stimulate the Economy. As for the Mid-Long Term, that Debt is a consequence of both the Short Term and the restructuring of HealthCare. The CBO Projections will likely prove inaccurate as time goes on, especially after the Economy gets back to Growth. Mainly because effort will likely focus on reducing the Deficit as the Economy recovers.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski
No, what's your point? We all know the Debt is getting bigger. Some of us understand why and the necessity of it. Others just see it getting bigger and run around screaming about it.

So in other words, you have nothing else to add?

What's to add?

I'll bite. Why is it necessary for the debt to get bigger in the long term?

Your question is incorrect. Short Term Debt is necessary to Stimulate the Economy. As for the Mid-Long Term, that Debt is a consequence of both the Short Term and the restructuring of HealthCare. The CBO Projections will likely prove inaccurate as time goes on, especially after the Economy gets back to Growth. Mainly because effort will likely focus on reducing the Deficit as the Economy recovers.

This is precisely why I asked about long term debt. I understand the reason for short term debt. I wanted to get at the root of why you believe deficit spending is necessary for the long term, but I think it comes down to ideology and we'll probably have to agree to disagree.

 

[Ldir]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

I'll bite. Why is it necessary for the debt to get bigger in the long term?

Because Republicans spent the last 30 years turning tax into a four letter word. They made the hole so deep and interest payments so high it is not realistic to fill it.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: Ldir

Originally posted by: blanghorst

I'll bite. Why is it necessary for the debt to get bigger in the long term?

Because Republicans spent the last 30 years turning tax into a four letter word. They made the hole so deep and interest payments so high it is not realistic to fill it.

So because spending has been out of control for so long, we shouldn't take any action to reduce the debt because it is not "realistic"? You can blame Republicans for spending, yes, but many Democrats are also unwilling to reduce spending on their pet programs.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski
No, what's your point? We all know the Debt is getting bigger. Some of us understand why and the necessity of it. Others just see it getting bigger and run around screaming about it.

So in other words, you have nothing else to add?

What's to add?

I'll bite. Why is it necessary for the debt to get bigger in the long term?

Your question is incorrect. Short Term Debt is necessary to Stimulate the Economy. As for the Mid-Long Term, that Debt is a consequence of both the Short Term and the restructuring of HealthCare. The CBO Projections will likely prove inaccurate as time goes on, especially after the Economy gets back to Growth. Mainly because effort will likely focus on reducing the Deficit as the Economy recovers.

This is precisely why I asked about long term debt. I understand the reason for short term debt. I wanted to get at the root of why you believe deficit spending is necessary for the long term, but I think it comes down to ideology and we'll probably have to agree to disagree.

Actually, you'll have to agree to disagree because this is usually right about where sandorski magically disappears. He's just parroting what he's heard other liberals say, but he doesn't understand the how or the why of it, so any real discussion on the matter is unattainable. It's why his replies usually consist of things like "what's to add?". It's like when a shrink asks someone what they think the problem is. He has no idea where he's going, so he'll prod you for a little direction in the hope that something will spring to his mind in the meantime or that you'll give him a good lead.

 

[SickBeast]

The Liberal party here in Canada paid down our national debt on a massive scale. Since the Conservatives took over, we are racking up huge debts again.

The problem has nothing to do with being a Liberal or a Conservative. It has everything to do with responsible governments spending our money in a reasonable way.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: blanghorst

Originally posted by: sandorski


Your question is incorrect. Short Term Debt is necessary to Stimulate the Economy. As for the Mid-Long Term, that Debt is a consequence of both the Short Term and the restructuring of HealthCare. The CBO Projections will likely prove inaccurate as time goes on, especially after the Economy gets back to Growth. Mainly because effort will likely focus on reducing the Deficit as the Economy recovers.

This is precisely why I asked about long term debt. I understand the reason for short term debt. I wanted to get at the root of why you believe deficit spending is necessary for the long term, but I think it comes down to ideology and we'll probably have to agree to disagree.

Actually, you'll have to agree to disagree because this is usually right about where sandorski magically disappears. He's just parroting what he's heard other liberals say, but he doesn't understand the how or the why of it, so any real discussion on the matter is unattainable. It's why his replies usually consist of things like "what's to add?". It's like when a shrink asks someone what they think the problem is. He has no idea where he's going, so he'll prod you for a little direction in the hope that something will spring to his mind in the meantime or that you'll give him a good lead.

O'rly?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
The Liberal party here in Canada paid down our national debt on a massive scale. Since the Conservatives took over, we are racking up huge debts again.

The problem has nothing to do with being a Liberal or a Conservative. It has everything to do with responsible governments spending our money in a reasonable way.

The Conservatives mistake was cutting Surpluses to the Bone in the mistaken Idea that Surpluses mean Over Taxation. A Deficit was kinda inevitable due to the severity of this Recession, so any criticism has to be tempered with that Reality. IMO.

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: SickBeast
The Liberal party here in Canada paid down our national debt on a massive scale. Since the Conservatives took over, we are racking up huge debts again.

The problem has nothing to do with being a Liberal or a Conservative. It has everything to do with responsible governments spending our money in a reasonable way.

The Conservatives mistake was cutting Surpluses to the Bone in the mistaken Idea that Surpluses mean Over Taxation. A Deficit was kinda inevitable due to the severity of this Recession, so any criticism has to be tempered with that Reality. IMO.

The Conservatives greatly reduced the rate at which we were paying down the debt a LONG time before the economic crisis hit. Their finance minister is evil. He used to work for Mike Harris.

 

[KMFJD]

8 years of Bush fuck up's cannot be repaired in few months...

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

It's fucking disgusting. Instead of bashing on Obama you should be bashing on the Repuglicans, demanding more accountability for their continued failure to be anything more than a wedge party.

Wait... let me get this straight. The repubs have zero power. The dems have an absolute filibuster proof majority in congress, they can do whatever they want, no matter what the republicans do or don't do. And you suggest that we as a public should be demanding MORE "accountability" from the republicans? For their continued failure .... to do what exactly? They have no power to do anything.

No, the responsibility is 100% on the democrats right now. Trying to pin *anything* that happens in government right now (and probably in the next 8 years) on the repubs is plain stupid.

LOL, the same bunch that are apologizing for Bush now were blaming Clinton 8 years ago. Conservatism died on the Bush watch and all the people that supported Bush are now the biggest bunch of whiny ass losers I have ever had the misfortune to know.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski
No, what's your point? We all know the Debt is getting bigger. Some of us understand why and the necessity of it. Others just see it getting bigger and run around screaming about it.

So in other words, you have nothing else to add?

Or perhaps it's just that you're in over your head? :laugh:

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski
No, what's your point? We all know the Debt is getting bigger. Some of us understand why and the necessity of it. Others just see it getting bigger and run around screaming about it.

So in other words, you have nothing else to add?

Or perhaps it's just that you're in over your head? :laugh:

And as usual, you have nothing to add, either (except trolling). It's funny, between your posting style (no substance, quick one-liners that you think are brilliant, etc) and your avatars, sometimes I forget you're two separate people .

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski
No, what's your point? We all know the Debt is getting bigger. Some of us understand why and the necessity of it. Others just see it getting bigger and run around screaming about it.

So in other words, you have nothing else to add?

Or perhaps it's just that you're in over your head? :laugh:

And as usual, you have nothing to add, either (except trolling). It's funny, between your posting style (no substance, quick one-liners that you think are brilliant, etc) and your avatars, sometimes I forget you're two separate people .

LOL, you are one to talk about not having anything to add. It seems that you're a bit of a one-trick pony.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski
No, what's your point? We all know the Debt is getting bigger. Some of us understand why and the necessity of it. Others just see it getting bigger and run around screaming about it.

So in other words, you have nothing else to add?

Or perhaps it's just that you're in over your head? :laugh:

And as usual, you have nothing to add, either (except trolling). It's funny, between your posting style (no substance, quick one-liners that you think are brilliant, etc) and your avatars, sometimes I forget you're two separate people .

LOL, you are one to talk about not having anything to add. It seems that you're a bit of a one-trick pony.

Better a one-trick pony than a lame pony. Remember, the lame ones get a bullet between the eyes .

So see my sig (CBO) for my "one trick." Right now, it's plenty more than you've had to offer. And sorry, "Bu bu bu bu Buuuuuuuuuuush" just doesn't cut it when we're talking about the consequences of Obama's fiscal policy. So take your Ritalin, get your ADD under control, and try to wrap your head around it :lips:

edit - Oh wait, I just remembered who you are: you're the guy who demands facts and figures, and then when presented with them, you either run for the hills or you start one-liner personal attacks. Never mind then... I didn't realize I was wasting my time with you. No need to look at the graph (or the OP, for that matter).

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski
No, what's your point? We all know the Debt is getting bigger. Some of us understand why and the necessity of it. Others just see it getting bigger and run around screaming about it.

So in other words, you have nothing else to add?

Or perhaps it's just that you're in over your head? :laugh:

And as usual, you have nothing to add, either (except trolling). It's funny, between your posting style (no substance, quick one-liners that you think are brilliant, etc) and your avatars, sometimes I forget you're two separate people .

LOL, you are one to talk about not having anything to add. It seems that you're a bit of a one-trick pony.

Better a one-trick pony than a lame pony. Remember, the lame ones get a bullet between the eyes .

So see my sig (CBO) for my "one trick." Right now, it's plenty more than you've had to offer. And sorry, "Bu bu bu bu Buuuuuuuuuuush" just doesn't cut it when we're talking about the consequences of Obama's fiscal policy. So take your Ritalin, get your ADD under control, and try to wrap your head around it :lips:

edit - Oh wait, I just remembered who you are: you're the guy who demands facts and figures, and then when presented with them, you either run for the hills or you start one-liner personal attacks. Never mind then... I didn't realize I was wasting my time with you. No need to look at the graph (or the OP, for that matter).

Obama's "Fiscal Policy" is a result of Bush's stupidity. You'll probably think that's another useless post, but that's because you can't grasp simple Reality.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski
No, what's your point? We all know the Debt is getting bigger. Some of us understand why and the necessity of it. Others just see it getting bigger and run around screaming about it.

So in other words, you have nothing else to add?

Or perhaps it's just that you're in over your head? :laugh:

And as usual, you have nothing to add, either (except trolling). It's funny, between your posting style (no substance, quick one-liners that you think are brilliant, etc) and your avatars, sometimes I forget you're two separate people .

LOL, you are one to talk about not having anything to add. It seems that you're a bit of a one-trick pony.

Better a one-trick pony than a lame pony. Remember, the lame ones get a bullet between the eyes .

So see my sig (CBO) for my "one trick." Right now, it's plenty more than you've had to offer. And sorry, "Bu bu bu bu Buuuuuuuuuuush" just doesn't cut it when we're talking about the consequences of Obama's fiscal policy. So take your Ritalin, get your ADD under control, and try to wrap your head around it :lips:

edit - Oh wait, I just remembered who you are: you're the guy who demands facts and figures, and then when presented with them, you either run for the hills or you start one-liner personal attacks. Never mind then... I didn't realize I was wasting my time with you. No need to look at the graph (or the OP, for that matter).

Obama's "Fiscal Policy" is a result of Bush's stupidity. You'll probably think that's another useless post, but that's because you can't grasp simple Reality.

Fail. His short term fiscal policy is a result of Bush's (and Congress') stupidity. Unfortunately, you don't get to pin 2020's economic crisis on Bush.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski
No, what's your point? We all know the Debt is getting bigger. Some of us understand why and the necessity of it. Others just see it getting bigger and run around screaming about it.

So in other words, you have nothing else to add?

Or perhaps it's just that you're in over your head? :laugh:

And as usual, you have nothing to add, either (except trolling). It's funny, between your posting style (no substance, quick one-liners that you think are brilliant, etc) and your avatars, sometimes I forget you're two separate people .

LOL, you are one to talk about not having anything to add. It seems that you're a bit of a one-trick pony.

Better a one-trick pony than a lame pony. Remember, the lame ones get a bullet between the eyes .

So see my sig (CBO) for my "one trick." Right now, it's plenty more than you've had to offer. And sorry, "Bu bu bu bu Buuuuuuuuuuush" just doesn't cut it when we're talking about the consequences of Obama's fiscal policy. So take your Ritalin, get your ADD under control, and try to wrap your head around it :lips:

edit - Oh wait, I just remembered who you are: you're the guy who demands facts and figures, and then when presented with them, you either run for the hills or you start one-liner personal attacks. Never mind then... I didn't realize I was wasting my time with you. No need to look at the graph (or the OP, for that matter).

Obama's "Fiscal Policy" is a result of Bush's stupidity. You'll probably think that's another useless post, but that's because you can't grasp simple Reality.

Fail. His short term fiscal policy is a result of Bush's (and Congress') stupidity. Unfortunately, you don't get to pin 2020's economic crisis on Bush.

Fail.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: jbourne77
The amount of deflection in this thread is simply staggering. JSt0rm01, sandorski, LegendKiller, JKing106, and senseamp would all prefer to talk about Bush and Reagan, when this thread is about projected deficits based on Obama's fiscal policies. Toss in Moonbeam's standard nonsensical gibberish, and you really don't have a single on-topic post by the left. All we really have is a heap of red herrings and a few senile mutterings. Any chance we could talk about the real issue here? Enough of the "if only the republicans were in charge. We would have balanced budgets." mantra. It's not relevant. The Republicans' poor spending habits do not dampen the harsh realities and consequences of Obama's and his Congress, and make Obama and his Congress no less accountable. If you want to bitch, moan, and deflect over where we'd be if Republicans were in charge, start a thread for it. The good news is that, at the rate we're going, you're likely to find out the answer to that hypothetical question sooner than you'd otherwise like.

Incorrect. We just want to state the Truth of the Matter. This is Bush's fuck up, the Economy was in the shitter when Obama took over.

Amusing that you pretend to defend against the truth of your partisanship by blaming Obama's spending spree on Bush and the fact the economy was (and is) in recession when he assumed office. Yet the same was true about Bush when he began his first term - we were in recession in 2001, remember? Of course, since you're a partisan hack, the recession excuse only works for Obama, but not Bush. Truth be told, Bush made the debt worse by never submitting a balanced budget in his 8 years, but then, Obama is poised to do the same, so I don't find one significantly better than the other, at least from a fiscal perspective.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: SickBeast
I was told recently that in California they pay MORE tax than we do here in Canada, yet they don't have universal health care.
IMO the US needs a third and maybe even a fourth political party. Both the Democrats and the Republicans have proven themselves to be incompetent. I'm willing to give Obama some more time before judging him too harshly, but I'm not impressed with his handling of the economic crisis thus far, and I'm not entirely convinced that his impending arrival didn't play a role in it.

What we need is LESS GOVERNMENT and lower taxes. It blows my mind how little they can accomplish with half of our collective monies.

let me get this straight....
Your canadian? You have no say in this ......
I didn`t know canadians could mvote for POTUS>>..hmmm

I don't need to be an American to critique your president. If anything, I'm more objective that you are as an outsider, plus my mind hasn't been poisoned by your messed up media.

Objective? Aren't you the same dummy who went to Cuba on holiday and thought it was a utopia?

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: sandorski
Fail.

Originally posted by: jbourne77
And as usual, you have nothing to add, either (except trolling). It's funny, between your posting style (no substance, quick one-liners that you think are brilliant, etc) and your avatars, sometimes I forget you're two separate people .

That you two always end up posting in threads without ever actually saying anything is rather amusing :laugh: . Really, why do you bother?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Obama's "Fiscal Policy" is a result of Bush's stupidity. You'll probably think that's another useless post, but that's because you can't grasp simple Reality.

The short term fiscal policy is a result of Bush, correct. However, how long are you going to keep that act up? It is amazing to me how you guys pick and choose who inherits what problems. For example, when we discuss Carter in this forum, we hear the "But...But...Ford....but..but....Nixon" chants, as if Carter were an innocent bystander. When the discussion turns to Reagan, you guys imply he inherited those problems from Ford or Nixon, ignoring Carter's role. And today, the "Bu....Bu....Bush" chants are all we hear. Sure, I will grant it is too early to pin everything on Obama, but the CBO estimates are very scary and you can't pin all of that on Bush no matter how much you want it to be true.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: sandorski
No, what's your point? We all know the Debt is getting bigger. Some of us understand why and the necessity of it. Others just see it getting bigger and run around screaming about it.

So in other words, you have nothing else to add?

Or perhaps it's just that you're in over your head? :laugh:

And as usual, you have nothing to add, either (except trolling). It's funny, between your posting style (no substance, quick one-liners that you think are brilliant, etc) and your avatars, sometimes I forget you're two separate people .

LOL, you are one to talk about not having anything to add. It seems that you're a bit of a one-trick pony.

Better a one-trick pony than a lame pony. Remember, the lame ones get a bullet between the eyes .

So see my sig (CBO) for my "one trick." Right now, it's plenty more than you've had to offer. And sorry, "Bu bu bu bu Buuuuuuuuuuush" just doesn't cut it when we're talking about the consequences of Obama's fiscal policy. So take your Ritalin, get your ADD under control, and try to wrap your head around it :lips:

edit - Oh wait, I just remembered who you are: you're the guy who demands facts and figures, and then when presented with them, you either run for the hills or you start one-liner personal attacks. Never mind then... I didn't realize I was wasting my time with you. No need to look at the graph (or the OP, for that matter).

I think it is time to ignore him. As you say, he demands facts and when you give him the facts, he ignores them or uses his new line -- "I think independently." Because, after all, nobodyknow's "independent thought" is a lot more valuable and inciteful than the PhDs from Stanford, MIT, Harvard, etc. who consult and work with the CBO. I mean, who are we to believe folks like this and this, with such questionable credentials. :roll: Or how dare we quote the research of other "questionable" organizations such as Gallup, PriceWaterhouseCoopers, CNN, etc.

Seriously, I wonder if perhaps he is an alternate account for Dave.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: jbourne77
The amount of deflection in this thread is simply staggering. JSt0rm01, sandorski, LegendKiller, JKing106, and senseamp would all prefer to talk about Bush and Reagan, when this thread is about projected deficits based on Obama's fiscal policies. Toss in Moonbeam's standard nonsensical gibberish, and you really don't have a single on-topic post by the left. All we really have is a heap of red herrings and a few senile mutterings. Any chance we could talk about the real issue here? Enough of the "if only the republicans were in charge. We would have balanced budgets." mantra. It's not relevant. The Republicans' poor spending habits do not dampen the harsh realities and consequences of Obama's and his Congress, and make Obama and his Congress no less accountable. If you want to bitch, moan, and deflect over where we'd be if Republicans were in charge, start a thread for it. The good news is that, at the rate we're going, you're likely to find out the answer to that hypothetical question sooner than you'd otherwise like.

Incorrect. We just want to state the Truth of the Matter. This is Bush's fuck up, the Economy was in the shitter when Obama took over.

Amusing that you pretend to defend against the truth of your partisanship by blaming Obama's spending spree on Bush and the fact the economy was (and is) in recession when he assumed office. Yet the same was true about Bush when he began his first term - we were in recession in 2001, remember? Of course, since you're a partisan hack, the recession excuse only works for Obama, but not Bush. Truth be told, Bush made the debt worse by never submitting a balanced budget in his 8 years, but then, Obama is poised to do the same, so I don't find one significantly better than the other, at least from a fiscal perspective.

The Recession Bush inherited was a Minor Hiccup. Obama got the Economy ran over by a Bus.

aka, not all Recessions are the same. You should read up on them.