Dow 9500 ... Where we go from here...

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Thump553

This factual statement is flat out wrong. Please provide some proof for your assertion-which is directly contrary to the rights guaranteed under the Constitution.

I wish the OP would revise the title of this thread-everytime I see Dow Jones and 9500 I think happy days are here again. The difference a month or two makes.

You are disputing this historical fact?

Here ya go:
Text

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: Cattlegod
Stock market is retarded today. Down 300 then up like a bandit, wtf?

the only news that i see is walmart says the holiday season is 'optimistic'

No, it was perfectly rational. It had nothing to do with Walmart and everything to do with technical trading. 840 S&P explains everything that occurred today.

 

[StageLeft]

So now the stock market was under 8k and is at 8750 five min away from close. They need to do drug testing for those on the floor.

 

[StageLeft]

Market got creamed again today, I watch it from a distance now. I know it affects me, but I'm almost numb. Sub 8k close. S&P 500 lowest close in 5 years. Oh well.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Market got creamed again today, I watch it from a distance now. I know it affects me, but I'm almost numb. Sub 8k close. S&P 500 lowest close in 5 years. Oh well.

Yup, brutal day.

 

[miketheidiot]

i think it might be entering a new and lower trading range.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
i think it might be entering a new and lower trading range.

I think we can all quite easily imagine seeing a 6 at the front of the DOW ticker on yahoo finance, can't we? I'm still buying 100% stocks with my 401k each paycheck. Hopefully I won't need to cash that out if the economy truly spoils and we're all up the creek. If I don't, this will have proven to be a good period (even if long) to be picking up all these stocks!

 

[redgtxdi]

We won't see Down 10K again until 2013.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: redgtxdi
We won't see Down 10K again until 2013.

i think we'll hit the low in early 2009, and be over 10k in mid 2010.

I think the recession will end in late 2009, making it about a 15-18 month recession.


*as long as they don't like another lehman happen

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Thump553

This factual statement is flat out wrong. Please provide some proof for your assertion-which is directly contrary to the rights guaranteed under the Constitution.

I wish the OP would revise the title of this thread-everytime I see Dow Jones and 9500 I think happy days are here again. The difference a month or two makes.

You are disputing this historical fact?

Here ya go:
Text

Dissipate:

As I said, your statement (which was "It didn't get quite that bad during the Great Depression and the government still confiscated everyone's gold.") is false.

1) Executive Order 6102, which you linked to, was found invalid by the courts.

2) Executive Order 6102 did not require seizure of all gold. It required turning in of gold money, gold certificates, etc. in exchange for federal reserve notes as part of the process of the federal government leaving the gold standard. People were allowed to own gold, just not gold in the form of legal money of the US government. That may upset gold money fanatics and other flat-earthers, but it is far from the confiscation you claimed occured.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I think we can all quite easily imagine seeing a 6 at the front of the DOW ticker on yahoo finance, can't we? I'm still buying 100% stocks with my 401k each paycheck. Hopefully I won't need to cash that out if the economy truly spoils and we're all up the creek. If I don't, this will have proven to be a good period (even if long) to be picking up all these stocks!

Wow, you really are a brute for punishment. You have predicted that the bailout will be a disaster (as I have as well), yet you continue throwing money into the system. Seems like a contradiction or some kind of act of self hate. :Q

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Thump553

Dissipate:

As I said, your statement (which was "It didn't get quite that bad during the Great Depression and the government still confiscated everyone's gold.") is false.

1) Executive Order 6102, which you linked to, was found invalid by the courts.

2) Executive Order 6102 did not require seizure of all gold. It required turning in of gold money, gold certificates, etc. in exchange for federal reserve notes as part of the process of the federal government leaving the gold standard. People were allowed to own gold, just not gold in the form of legal money of the US government. That may upset gold money fanatics and other flat-earthers, but it is far from the confiscation you claimed occured.

It was tantamount to confiscation because you were forced to sell your gold to the Federal Reserve or you could go to prison for up to 10 years for owning gold.

1) Executive Order 6102 was shot down because of a technicality but it was replaced with the Gold Reserve Act in 1934.

2) Regardless of Executive Order 6102, it was indeed illegal for citizens to own gold bullion until Gerald Ford made it legal again in 1974. That included any gold bullion, not just minted coins. The only coins you could own before that were collector's coins that derived their value from being collector's items rather than their gold content.

The limitation on gold ownership in the U.S. was repealed after President Gerald Ford signed a bill legalizing private ownership of gold coins, bars and certificates by an act of Congress codified in Pub.L. 93-373 [1] [2] which went into effect December 31, 1974. P.L. 93-373 does not repeal the Gold Clause Resolution of 1933, which makes unlawful any contracts which specify payment in a fixed amount of money or a fixed amount of gold. That is, contracts are unenforceable if they use gold monetarily rather than as a commodity of trade.

Text

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I think we can all quite easily imagine seeing a 6 at the front of the DOW ticker on yahoo finance, can't we? I'm still buying 100% stocks with my 401k each paycheck. Hopefully I won't need to cash that out if the economy truly spoils and we're all up the creek. If I don't, this will have proven to be a good period (even if long) to be picking up all these stocks!

Wow, you really are a brute for punishment. You have predicted that the bailout will be a disaster (as I have as well), yet you continue throwing money into the system. Seems like a contradiction or some kind of act of self hate. :Q

No one knows where the market bottom is (8000? 6000? 4000?), or when the market recovery will begin. Thus, investing over time makes sense - IF, that is, you know you won't need to pull money out of the market for at least 10 years.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: shira

No one knows where the market bottom is (8000? 6000? 4000?), or when the market recovery will begin. Thus, investing over time makes sense - IF, that is, you know you won't need to pull money out of the market for at least 10 years.

How do you know there won't be another Federal Reserve induced bubble in 10 years that pops and sends the market back to 2008 levels?

Investing in U.S. markets for the long haul doesn't seem wise right now.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
i think it might be entering a new and lower trading range.

3600

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: shira

No one knows where the market bottom is (8000? 6000? 4000?), or when the market recovery will begin. Thus, investing over time makes sense - IF, that is, you know you won't need to pull money out of the market for at least 10 years.

How do you know there won't be another Federal Reserve induced bubble in 10 years that pops and sends the market back to 2008 levels?

Investing in U.S. markets for the long haul doesn't seem wise right now.

Completely agree.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: shira

No one knows where the market bottom is (8000? 6000? 4000?), or when the market recovery will begin. Thus, investing over time makes sense - IF, that is, you know you won't need to pull money out of the market for at least 10 years.

How do you know there won't be another Federal Reserve induced bubble in 10 years that pops and sends the market back to 2008 levels?

Investing in U.S. markets for the long haul doesn't seem wise right now.

You are dead wrong according to past history. If you invest in stock over the long haul, no matter when you invest, during great depression, during 1987 when black monday happened, during 911, you would have done better then any saving account or bond.

The key is know when you need the money and if you need money in 10 years, start to move your money to less volatile investments like bonds as it get closer to the time you wanna cash out.

 

[HeXploiT]

Dow tested 8200 multiple times this week and finally broke through support with ease to end below 8000. Bad sign.
Fed is warning of deflation(total BS fear mongering).
The printing presses are running full bore now.
Silver is being covertly suppressed.
How in the heck did gas drop in value???
I would love to know how they pulled that one off.
Interesting times ahead!

Interesting note...
The federal reserve is battling the government for our money.
The politicians want to spend it on the car companies and the central bank wants us to spend it on them. lol

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: shira

No one knows where the market bottom is (8000? 6000? 4000?), or when the market recovery will begin. Thus, investing over time makes sense - IF, that is, you know you won't need to pull money out of the market for at least 10 years.

How do you know there won't be another Federal Reserve induced bubble in 10 years that pops and sends the market back to 2008 levels?

Investing in U.S. markets for the long haul doesn't seem wise right now.

You are dead wrong according to past history. If you invest in stock over the long haul, no matter when you invest, during great depression, during 1987 when black monday happened, during 911, you would have done better then any saving account or bond.

The key is know when you need the money and if you need money in 10 years, start to move your money to less volatile investments like bonds as it get closer to the time you wanna cash out.

Maybe the GD or 1987, but I'm not sure you would have outdone some of the savings or bond rates from the bottom of 9/11 to right now.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I think we can all quite easily imagine seeing a 6 at the front of the DOW ticker on yahoo finance, can't we? I'm still buying 100% stocks with my 401k each paycheck. Hopefully I won't need to cash that out if the economy truly spoils and we're all up the creek. If I don't, this will have proven to be a good period (even if long) to be picking up all these stocks!

Wow, you really are a brute for punishment. You have predicted that the bailout will be a disaster (as I have as well), yet you continue throwing money into the system. Seems like a contradiction or some kind of act of self hate. :Q

Heh, yeah I can see your point there, but I am looking very long term. I do believe the economy--it's not believe--I know the economy will continue to sour for the next several months at a minimum and it won't be considered healthy until the end of 2009, best case, but I know also that if I sit out the market with the intent to get in before it goes up I have a great chance of missing it. I managed to get lucky getting out of some international stocks (Euro was stronger when I did it) and put them into a US treasury bond fund a while back, and that will stay as it is, but anything new is stocks.

How do you know there won't be another Federal Reserve induced bubble in 10 years that pops and sends the market back to 2008 levels?

Investing in U.S. markets for the long haul doesn't seem wise right now.

I don't know. But I know that I don't and that professionals almost unanimously agree (a few fringe do not) that the market will recover. They disagreement on when, but the market has worked well over time for many decades now, and I don't know enough to second guess that to the extent that I instead put my money into something else.

How in the heck did gas drop in value???
I would love to know how they pulled that one off.

There is no "they". Simply, oil was a speculative bubble, it burst overnight, and now the raw goods costs for gasoline have plummeted. Ergo, it's "cheap".

The federal reserve is battling the government for our money.
The politicians want to spend it on the car companies and the central bank wants us to spend it on them. lol

Big mess!

 

[Jiggz]

Need to change the thread title, DJ 7500 and falling . . .

 

[First]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: shira

No one knows where the market bottom is (8000? 6000? 4000?), or when the market recovery will begin. Thus, investing over time makes sense - IF, that is, you know you won't need to pull money out of the market for at least 10 years.

How do you know there won't be another Federal Reserve induced bubble in 10 years that pops and sends the market back to 2008 levels?

Investing in U.S. markets for the long haul doesn't seem wise right now.

Investing in U.S. markets long term (20 and 30 years) has resulted in 7% compounded annual returns since 1802, vastly superior to any return you could get on gold or bonds.

Frankly, you'd have to be entirely ignorant not to see exactly how wise it is to invest in U.S. equities long term.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Jiggz
Need to change the thread title, DJ 7500 and falling . . .

Not far to my prediction of 3600

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: rchiu
You are dead wrong according to past history. If you invest in stock over the long haul, no matter when you invest, during great depression, during 1987 when black monday happened, during 911, you would have done better then any saving account or bond.

The key is know when you need the money and if you need money in 10 years, start to move your money to less volatile investments like bonds as it get closer to the time you wanna cash out.

There is a big difference between the past and now. One word: debt. The U.S. has taken on a massive amount of debt, with the savings rate now in negative territory.

See: The shallowest generation

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Evan
Investing in U.S. markets long term (20 and 30 years) has resulted in 7% compounded annual returns since 1802, vastly superior to any return you could get on gold or bonds.

Frankly, you'd have to be entirely ignorant not to see exactly how wise it is to invest in U.S. equities long term.

Check historical debt levels and savings rates, then get back to me.