Doom Eternal

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Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,143
131
106
I'm a HUGE Doom II fan. I know what you're referring to - THIS:

Look at this marvelous gameplay!!

Enemies aren't super deadly. It's a continuous gauntlet of killing killing killing.

I'm about 3 hours into Eternal now. It is more arcadey but enemies are way too quick. I'm starting to have some fun with dashing non stop, chainsawing for ammo, glory kill for health, and flame mount for armor. But I don't think I LOVE it.

Actually watching that clip above makes me want to play Doom II now.
I've watched a stream of the game yesterday. I thought I'd 'give it a chance' by watching it more than just 10 minutes. I watched the streamer playing for two different streams, maybe a total of 4 or 5 hours into the game. I'm absolutely aware - even though I don't care - that I'm in the minority with these new "Doom" games. But now that I've watched enough of it I can say without exaggeration that, for me, for my own tastes this game is a complete joke and I'm staying away from it. I also save a lot of money (brand new games in Canada right now cost about a pair of arms and legs) and time.

I'll stick with Brutal Doom. Maybe in 20 years or so we'll get another reboot of the franchise, but at that point it's probably going to be in VR and I won't care either.

With this said, I can give credits where due for Eternal:

- It has decent music, but I still prefer the original tunes from Ultimate Doom, or the ambient tracks from Doom 64 or PSX Doom. Still, it's not bad.

- The visual fidelity is pretty good (LOD, overall attention to details, it's pretty good).

- It's a LOT more visually-varied this time compared to "Doom" 2016. There's a lot more assets and the maps distinguish themselves from each others a lot better now.

- Enemy animations are good, transitions are smooth (not just the 'glory' kills, but in general). I particularly like how the Arachnotron moves around.

- Most enemy designs (or re-designs) are good. Not all of them, but most of them. I just hate the Imps, hated them in 2016, still hate them here. Imps in Doom are bulky and slow, they are humanoids with spikes. This time they look like some scrawny B-movie horror sci-fi alien invasion monster that keeps jumping, dodging and platforming like they're training for American Ninja Warrior, stupid redesign on them. But other than that and maybe one or two new enemies the majority of them look pretty good.

- I am in shock for this one but the A.I. in this game is actually good. Obviously not for the basic 'zombie' soldiers but for the likes of the bigger enemies and the Arachnotron they all seem to try to flank and attack from behind or navigate around the maps very well. They don't just stick to one spot all the time and they don't do the typical modern FPS "take cover, come out of cover for 2 seconds to shoot, back to cover and stay there" cycle. Given that the maps this time compared to 2016 are more varied in layout and structure it's nice to see that the enemies use that as well.

- Weapons design and sounds are, generally, pretty good.

That's about what I kept in mind from what I watched. But all the rest is pure garbage (for me), so it's a pass.
 

Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
10,690
726
126
I've watched a stream of the game yesterday. I thought I'd 'give it a chance' by watching it more than just 10 minutes. I watched the streamer playing for two different streams, maybe a total of 4 or 5 hours into the game. I'm absolutely aware - even though I don't care - that I'm in the minority with these new "Doom" games. But now that I've watched enough of it I can say without exaggeration that, for me, for my own tastes this game is a complete joke and I'm staying away from it. I also save a lot of money (brand new games in Canada right now cost about a pair of arms and legs) and time.

I'll stick with Brutal Doom. Maybe in 20 years or so we'll get another reboot of the franchise, but at that point it's probably going to be in VR and I won't care either.

With this said, I can give credits where due for Eternal:

- It has decent music, but I still prefer the original tunes from Ultimate Doom, or the ambient tracks from Doom 64 or PSX Doom. Still, it's not bad.

- The visual fidelity is pretty good (LOD, overall attention to details, it's pretty good).

- It's a LOT more visually-varied this time compared to "Doom" 2016. There's a lot more assets and the maps distinguish themselves from each others a lot better now.

- Enemy animations are good, transitions are smooth (not just the 'glory' kills, but in general). I particularly like how the Arachnotron moves around.

- Most enemy designs (or re-designs) are good. Not all of them, but most of them. I just hate the Imps, hated them in 2016, still hate them here. Imps in Doom are bulky and slow, they are humanoids with spikes. This time they look like some scrawny B-movie horror sci-fi alien invasion monster that keeps jumping, dodging and platforming like they're training for American Ninja Warrior, stupid redesign on them. But other than that and maybe one or two new enemies the majority of them look pretty good.

- I am in shock for this one but the A.I. in this game is actually good. Obviously not for the basic 'zombie' soldiers but for the likes of the bigger enemies and the Arachnotron they all seem to try to flank and attack from behind or navigate around the maps very well. They don't just stick to one spot all the time and they don't do the typical modern FPS "take cover, come out of cover for 2 seconds to shoot, back to cover and stay there" cycle. Given that the maps this time compared to 2016 are more varied in layout and structure it's nice to see that the enemies use that as well.

- Weapons design and sounds are, generally, pretty good.

That's about what I kept in mind from what I watched. But all the rest is pure garbage (for me), so it's a pass.
What do you dislike about it so much? Is it similar to my take?

- Double dash, double jump excessive platforming crap + double dash refresher item = 4 times dash
- Enemies too quick. That's not an issue. But it's not Doom. It should be hordes of enemies that cause a slow relentless chaos.
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,143
131
106
What do you dislike about it so much? Is it similar to my take?

- Double dash, double jump excessive platforming crap + double dash refresher item = 4 times dash
- Enemies too quick. That's not an issue. But it's not Doom. It should be hordes of enemies that cause a slow relentless chaos.
What you mentioned and a lot more. I don't feel like going too much in details here since this thread is grounds for people who loved the 2016 game and would make love to Eternal if they could. But I dislike the extra mobility they're focusing on since 2016, but this time around it's pushed to Mario Bros level of platforming and acrobatics I'd expect in something like Mirror's Edge. Then you have idiocies like objectives, cutscenes (objectives, in a DOOM game; not sure why but yeah this is definitely for a newer generation of gamers, I ain't got no _f_'ing time for missions in my Doom), gameplay interruptions in the form of spoon-fed pop-up windows that always tells you everything you can do and how to do it; it even forces you to a training room in the middle of 'the game' (wtf they were on when they thought of that I have no idea, but then again if their goal is to reach the same audience as Nintendo does with their first party games I can understand).

Then you have glory kills and how the combat gameplay is all centered around using that shit. Then you have RPG elements with armor upgrades, weapon upgrades, runes and all that nonsense (simply secondary firing modes would have been more than enough, or maybe something extra by just adding a second type of ammunition for each weapons would have been enough). I swear their next Doom game will have leveling up. I'm not kidding, you can bet your arse they'll add actual leveling up for Doomguy in the next one. Also when it comes to overall 'feel' and ambience, enemies corpses / gibs, etc, it all disappears with a nice little particle effect. There's no visual representation of a supposed "frantic" fight that just occurred anywhere to be seen. No impact marks, no fires, no gibs, no carcasses staying. Everything is clear and clean like a janitor following Doomguy with a bucket full of S_pick and Span making sure they don't hurt kid's eyes too much because hey, way too much violence man, gotta be careful with that stuff; it's Doom after all.

Anyway look, I could keep on going but it comes down to this: to each their own. I'm in no obligation to like this as much as no one has to love the likes of Witcher 3, or Breath of the Wild, or 2018's God of War. Some people hate what the majority loves, it happens. Sometimes they have their own valid reasons that nobody would agree with. I know it's the case with this. I rarely am on this boat. Usually when a game is praised by the majority I tend to agree with most points (albeit not all of them). I have my preferences, and my history with Doom games. I grew up with them to a good extent and developed my appreciation of the franchise's simplicity and straightforwardness. Doom (the originals, up to Doom 64) was the epitome of 'brainless fun'. Need to kill hordes of enemies without having to worry about anything else? Play Doom. But... this, this "Doom" take since 2016 is nothing more than a modern FPS game with the Doom name on it but it has next to nothing to do with the originals, much less with the originals' mods such as Brutal Doom; which is something I'll praise until my death bed.

If people out there want to play something more modern than the originals but still want to get into 'brainless fun' territory without cutscenes and platforming and that sort of crap I'd instead recommend the first Painkiller (and the expansion too) or the new Shadow Warrior games (first and second; and even though there's some "story" in those two it's so 'on the side' and quickly happening that it really doesn't hinder the experience whatsoever, at least not for me). There's also Indie FPSes like Project Warlock, Ion Fury and Dusk that are lightyears ahead of this Eternal trash. But then again, it's subjective. Some people would call it 'mediocre tastes', fine; whatever makes you sleep better at night. I just can't stand these new Doom games and will never for my life understand why they're working. But they are. Good for the devs, it gives them work and God knows how much it's important in these times to keep your job.
 
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mopardude87

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2018
3,348
1,575
96
I hope this one is good cause i got bored of the last Doom. I hated the idea i had to figure out where the heck i needed to go to open doors and crap. I did this already with DNF and i hated it. I wanted non stop blasting of enemies, not puzzles.
 
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Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
10,690
726
126
I gotta agree.

I am still enjoying it though, but I get worn out, I have to play in 45-60 min increments.

The game looks beautiful and very well optimized.

wtf, my rig is barely above their minimal system requirements, but I'm running everything near max at 1080p at 60 fps with GTX 1060 6gb, old i7 and 8gb ram.
 

Igo69

Senior member
Apr 26, 2015
628
74
91
I hope this one is good cause i got bored of the last Doom. I hated the idea i had to figure out where the heck i needed to go to open doors and crap. I did this already with DNF and i hated it. I wanted non stop blasting of enemies, not puzzles.
Totally agree with this, even though I like to explore I would prefer not to do any puzzles in FPS games like Doom. Loved the guns but there wasn't enough shooting to use them often.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,011
335
126
Totally agree with this, even though I like to explore I would prefer not to do any puzzles in FPS games like Doom. Loved the guns but there wasn't enough shooting to use them often.
I just played through the 2016 Doom and pretty much all I did was shoot stuff.
 

mopardude87

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2018
3,348
1,575
96
I just played through the 2016 Doom and pretty much all I did was shoot stuff.
I got stuck on this one mission where i had to do some random stuff and it was opening up doors to access areas. I hate having to google up this stuff but yeah was annoying not knowing where the heck to go. Nothing was solid about WHERE to go, i was supposed to magically figure out this spot. I wanna shoot things, not solve a damn scooby doo mystery.
 
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EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
3,887
791
136
I thought Doom 2016 had the right amount of platforming and exploration where this one is a bit overdone. I actually like the faster, frantic pace but could see why others do not. Also, the "kill em all" arena style of progression really just relies on heavy spamming of enemies and player endurance. That can be fun, but not all the time... I mean there were a few times where I was literally tapped out of all ammo and like 4 more heavy enemies spawned. In those cases you gotta run and find lesser enemies to chainsaw and only then take on the harder dudes.

Idk I'm having fun with it but I sort of had a feeling they were going to try and do too much. I think a follow up with some new enemies and guns would have been fine, and with less emphasis on upgrading (old school Doom feel) but hey, whatever.
 
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ItsFlybye

Member
Apr 30, 2018
84
11
41
I hope this one is good cause i got bored of the last Doom. I hated the idea i had to figure out where the heck i needed to go to open doors and crap. I did this already with DNF and i hated it. I wanted non stop blasting of enemies, not puzzles.
Exactly why I was iffy about Doom 2016. I enjoyed it, but I couldn't play it a 2nd time. With Rage 2? I can restart some areas and more mindless I need to take my daily frustrations out enjoyment. I don't have all the time in the world to figure crap out or watch 5 hours of cutscenes. I like to go, make minced meat of the enemy, and get out.

I keep reading reviews about Eternal to decide if I am going to buy it or not. I feel like people want to say it is too easy but don't. I see the babies cry about a lack of ammo, but so what if you can quickly chainsaw something. I saw about an hour of game play, and none of the creatures look intimidating. Especially when they spew out skittles after killing them.

Same thing happened with Rage 2. People said it was too easy. When Ultra Nightmare finally came out, I bought it. People warned me about it being impossible if you haven't played it. Oh please. Yes, it was impossible in the beginning, but I love that. I will keep moving forward. The sad part about Rage 2 is once you are fully loaded up with everything, it feels too easy. I sometimes have to purposely walk straight into the epicenter of an area just to get all the baddie's attentions to make it fun.
 

Dranoche

Senior member
Jul 6, 2009
261
47
91
Eternal feels a touch faster than 2016, though that might just be due to the improved enemy design forcing you to react to a greater number of threats in a greater number of ways at any given moment than 2016 did. Early game balance before you start to fill out your arsenal feels a little off, but it gets better. I'm playing on ultra violence and it feels like it's pushing me harder than nightmare did in 2016. They took the "combat chess" concept and boosted it to a new level. Not entirely sold on the exact implementation as it's a touch overwhelming but I understand what they're going for and it's pushing me out of an obvious comfort zone I fell in to with 2016. The training and info pop-ups are a little irritating in that they break the flow. I understand why they're there but I wish it was more organic. It's not hand-holding, it's letting you know what's new as there's a lot that's been added on top of 2016 and after the first couple levels it's gone, but it is a little sloppy.

You can skip every cutscene if you want to. I don't mind them but I am a bit irritated with the way the game sometimes snaps into cutscenes and the way you are often teleported to a slightly different spot after some cutscenes. I know the storytelling is a bit more third-person than 2016, but it could have some smoother transitions. Little touches like the way the Doom Slayer picks up and inspects new weapons are either absent or not as clean. Things that might have been useful for teaching you about what you just picked up instead of a pop-up. A little rough around the edges in presentation.

There's a bit more platforming in this one that I'm not caring for much but the additional mobility fits the new arena-like areas. Accessing secrets often involves pushing the new mobility to extremes. It's also pushed to the extreme in a few simple transition areas between combat, which I don't like. Those don't feel as polished or thought out as the secrets. Some of you have mentioned puzzles and having trouble figuring out where to go in 2016. I don't recall any puzzles or ever having trouble progressing. It was no different than the old Dooms in terms of find the key or button, it just labeled them as an objective. Ultimately you still get through it the same. Eternal is much the same in that regard.

The visuals are great on a technical level, and it runs great. Style wise a bit more color. That appears to be primarily a design decision, highlighting points of interest so they don't blend into the background, keeping things moving.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,924
3,274
126
To be honest and I never thought I would say this.....but I found it boring!
I mean it is action packed don`t get me wrong!'
But with that said even on the hardest setting it was a stroll in the park!!
 

Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
10,690
726
126
Too many secrets that hide actually much needed upgrades and items.

Doom II was a sheer carnage.
Eternal makes you mange health + armor + ammo constantly. It's annoying as hell.
Platforming and puzzles are outright annoying. I had to watch some Youtube videos because I simply didn't care to solve it.

So I actually downloaded Doom II. Yea just as fun as I remembered.
 

ItsFlybye

Member
Apr 30, 2018
84
11
41
....Platforming and puzzles are outright annoying. I had to watch some Youtube videos because I simply didn't care to solve it..
Exactly why I am afraid of buying it. I don't wan't to remember my last Doom game as one that I hated. 2016 was already borderline for me being too easy.
 

Zeze

Lifer
Mar 4, 2011
10,690
726
126
Exactly why I am afraid of buying it. I don't wan't to remember my last Doom game as one that I hated. 2016 was already borderline for me being too easy.
I guess refund is too late for me. I don't know if it was worth $70 to me.... esp when I play plenty of quality F2P games for free for many years.
 

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
3,887
791
136
I find the slayer gates much easier than the hidden encounters or whatever they're called. Time limit is way tight on those but I can survive in the gates indefinitely. At least the 3 or 4 that I've played anyway lol

Last one I did spawned 2 like mini cyberdemons followed by a hunter and baron of hell. That one got a bit bonkers, but still plenty doable.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
13,835
402
126
I never beat doom 2016. I predict eternal will be on sale at some point. I'm more interested in resident evil 3 remake but I also didn't finish RE2 because I kept getting annoyed with Mr. X.
 

Magic Carpet

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2011
3,477
230
106
To me, this feels like a mix of the original Doom, Quake 3 Arena, Borderlands 3 and Rise of the Tomb Raider games. No, it's not quite like Mario :)

Definitely one of the better fast-paced shooter games I have played in a long time. But, there is a steep learning curve involved indeed before you master it and start getting pure enjoyment out of it.
 

ItsFlybye

Member
Apr 30, 2018
84
11
41
I can wait for a sale....
I think I am doing the same. I keep watching videos of Eternal, and something about it just feels a little too gimmicky for me. There are so many parts of the game that look like fast action to suddenly be slowed down to a molasses state by all the crawling up the walls and some of these cheesy cut scenes.
 

Printed Circuit Bro

Senior member
Jan 21, 2020
411
84
61
I tried to get a refund but apparently I'd gone barely over the 2 hour limit so Steam refused. Dammit.

The ammo throttling is ridiculous. This game was built specifically forcing the player to switch weapons constantly based on the enemy type. Even with ammo upgrades, if you're not switching to the ideal weapon every single time you change targets to a different type of enemy, you're going to be wasting ineffective ammo (or overkill) against that enemy.

I feel like I have to switch weapons almost as fast as I pull the trigger. Even at lower difficulties where ammo is more abundant, it's still throttled to a ridiculous degree. Definitely removes any semblance of fun with this artificial difficulty nonsense.
 
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Printed Circuit Bro

Senior member
Jan 21, 2020
411
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i am boycotting this because I have to sign up for Bethesda account in order to purchase and play it. WTF! :mad:

and Deluxe Edition is $90 :mad:
If you buy it on Steam you don't need a Bethesda account to buy. If you play in offline mode, you don't have to have a Bethesda account signed in.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
13,835
402
126
I tried to get a refund but apparently I'd gone barely over the 2 hour limit so Steam refused. Dammit.

The ammo throttling is ridiculous. This game was built specifically forcing the player to switch weapons constantly based on the enemy type. Even with ammo upgrades, if you're not switching to the ideal weapon every single time you change targets to a different type of enemy, you're going to be wasting ineffective ammo (or overkill) against that enemy.

I feel like I have to switch weapons almost as fast as I pull the trigger. Even at lower difficulties where ammo is more abundant, it's still throttled to a ridiculous degree. Definitely removes any semblance of fun with this artificial difficulty nonsense.
I actually watched some people play it on YouTube and yea it seems like you have to use a specific weapon or ammo for every different enemy type or your gonna have a bad time. I ran into this a few times in doom 2016.

Its almost way too fast for my liking but seems like I wouldn't care if I didn't pay full price which is why I'll wait.
 
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Printed Circuit Bro

Senior member
Jan 21, 2020
411
84
61
I actually watched some people play it on YouTube and yea it seems like you have to use a specific weapon or ammo for every different enemy type or your gonna have a bad time. I ran into this a few times in doom 2016.

Its almost way too fast for my liking but seems like I wouldn't care if I didn't pay full price which is why I'll wait.
That is indeed how it was in 2016! Before buying, I watched some gaming news bit about it which made a point to speak to this specific game mechanic, stating that Doom Eternal has this dialed up to 11 via intentionally throttling the hell out of ammo. Apparently it was an intentional effort to force players to use the shoulder canon and the chainsaw as often as possible which results in the player being forced to play only a certain specific way. Bad move.

Enemies are definitely quite a bit faster. Most of them don't seem to care about ranged attacks even though they all have ranged attacks. The enemies seem hell bent (see what I did there?) to get into melee range, totally crowding the player if they aren't constantly moving and dashing. Yet another way the devs chose to showcase a new feature (the dash) by forcing players to use it.
 

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